RCIA - "do you know what you're signing up for" - to prevent dropouts later

[3DOCTORS]

I think every RCIA class should present several “tough dilemma” scenarios and emphasize what really committing to become Catholic entails. Maybe even role play a response. Examples:

• You are on vacation and your non-Catholic family members present an item on the itinerary that would preclude Mass attendance on Sunday morning, and you also have something on Saturday evening you all are doing. Plus they look at you weird when you ask them for a phone book to look up Mass times, you don’t have your own vehicle or one to borrow . . . you get the picture.
• You hear about a “tough case” of a married couple who has children and the pregnancies have been high risk, and all the “reasonable” people around them are advising - sometimes quite sternly - they use artificial birth control or sterilization. Or you might be part of the couple in question.
• Your favorite niece is “marrying” her lesbian “partner” and wants you to attend the ceremony.
• You really don’t get the whole veneration of the Blessed Mother thing, and one of your friends from your former Protestant congregation shows you a Bible verse that “proves” it’s wrong. Or one that proves you shouldn’t call your priest “Father.” Or any number of similar scenarios. Suddenly you are all twisted up inside.
• There is another instance of scandal in the Church reported in the news media.
• You have a personal life crisis where you question everything and whether you made the right decision to convert.
• You feel lonely and adrift in your parish after the Easter Vigil is long past, no one seems to care whether you’re there or not, or you are even actively snubbed by one or more parishioners. Or you are the center of some controversy and very upset about it.

I’m sure many reading this could add their own items to the list. I’m a firm believer in “troubleshooting” - it can’t prevent every problem, but maybe it would help.

 

[1ke]

I’m not even sure how to respond to this.

But what I will say is that the basis of evangelization is the kerygma, and what we need to proclaim is the kerygma early and often. Discipleship is the heart of evangelization. The Church has much to say about evangelization, and the above approach is not anywhere to be found in it.

Perhaps the book Forming Intentional Disciples by Sherry Wedell would help you rethink your suggestion.

I do agree that many leave the faith after RCIA, I simply disagree that your approach is the right one to fix that.e

Because, utlimately, what they are “signing up for” is a relationship with Jesus.

 

[thequietsinger]

I’m not even sure how to respond to this.

I’m with you. Does anyone else want to try to?

 

[cheezey]

What is the troubleshooting?

…ultmately, what they are “signing up for” is a relationship with Jesus.

um, for now, I can only say that it goes both ways. I fought and fought and fought to get in, got in only after the bishop’s office became involved, and then they dropped me with no explanation. And all I want is to formalize my relationship with Him. That, in and of itself, should be profoundly easy, but it isn’t. After all, if given the the Bible, the RCC, every written word of every Pope, every written word of every church father, and well, you get the idea, (and assuming one could read it all before jeopardizing one’s soul), the fact remains that one’s faith is a life long journey. So while it merits some discernment and inquiries from both parties, it does not merit making it so difficult as to lose even one soul, one of His sheep over form and what if’s. Maybe some pop quizzes during the process, though that seems juvenile, but to keep someone’s soul waiting because the RCIA program wants to be sure that you will stay, no.

 

[Southern]

I think most of these issues are already covered that was mentioned and common sense tells us we will be persecuted and looked down upon at times just for being Christians. We are challenged everyday as Catholics in a world that is testing and trying everyday. We do not need scenerios but teachings and push for good Catholic Bible studies in the Church parish aside from RCIA so one can be prepared with the knowledge of the Good Book! This would be suffice to put on the Armor of God and know our faith and spread and live the Word of the Lord. Thanks Be To God!!! All to many times I hear other denominations down talk us for our Religion and our lack of knowledge. Many people who are Catholic don’t really know there faith. Many do but do not speak up. But the ones that don’t I think each Church Parish should press for good Studies and we can even do this ourselves as a prayer group. We need to get the knowledge across more. God Bless!!!

 

[3DOCTORS]

Well, perhaps I’ve seen too many dropouts - maybe I’m a statistical anomaly.

The examples I gave could be woven into each lesson about a given topic - it wouldn’t have to be presented as discouraging, merely realistic.

After all, soldiers go through boot camp to toughen up so they can survive under actual battlefield conditions. :twocents:

 

[cheezey]

Well, perhaps I’ve seen too many dropouts - maybe I’m a statistical anomaly.

The examples I gave could be woven into each lesson about a given topic - it wouldn’t have to be presented as discouraging, merely realistic.

After all, soldiers go through boot camp to toughen up so they can survive under actual battlefield conditions. :twocents:

I gotcha and this makes sense. So the first thing is a no pressure follow up interview to ascertain why the individual dropped out.
Actually, first thing is to make sure the classes/teachers aren’t the reason, then…

 

[capablanca911]

Well, perhaps I’ve seen too many dropouts - maybe I’m a statistical anomaly.

The examples I gave could be woven into each lesson about a given topic - it wouldn’t have to be presented as discouraging, merely realistic.

After all, soldiers go through boot camp to toughen up so they can survive under actual battlefield conditions. :twocents:

I feel you 3DOCTORS and I’m concerned that others ‘don’t get it.’

 

[cheezey]

I feel you 3DOCTORS and I’m concerned that others ‘don’t get it.’

Me too; and I am concerned that those who need/want this
‘don’t get it,’ either.
So what’s the answer?

 

[fastenatingguy]

Me too; and I am concerned that those who need/want this
‘don’t get it,’ either.
So what’s the answer?/QUOTE]

The answer may be that there is no “one size fits all” response that will do the trick. You have to know your audience (customer) in order to communicate the right message. That’s the most difficult thing to determine: what is the best way for THAT person.

I’m no expert but I do teach 8th grade catechism prep for the Sacrament of Confirmation. I spend the first three or four weeks finding out what my students know (or think they know) by asking lots of questions, listening to their answers, making them complete surveys (which is my way of getting their insight), etc. Only at that point can I start to analyze how they learn and where they “fit” in terms of understanding.

Not sure if that helps. Bottom line: the Army can manage all people one way (THEIR way), but we need to manage people to their fullest potential.

 

[cheezey]

cheezey;11093799:

Me too; and I am concerned that those who need/want this
‘don’t get it,’ either.
So what’s the answer?

/QUOTE]

The answer may be that there is no “one size fits all” response that will do the trick. You have to know your audience (customer) in order to communicate the right message. That’s the most difficult thing to determine: what is the best way for THAT person.

I’m no expert but I do teach 8th grade catechism prep for the Sacrament of Confirmation. I spend the first three or four weeks finding out what my students know (or think they know) by asking lots of questions, listening to their answers, making them complete surveys (which is my way of getting their insight), etc. Only at that point can I start to analyze how they learn and where they “fit” in terms of understanding.

Not sure if that helps. Bottom line: the Army can manage all people one way (THEIR way), but we need to manage people to their fullest potential.

That’s what I was trying to say as well, no one size fits all. But one very definite wrong way is to keep people waiting; to keep the sheep at bay as to what they know, how they know it, and what is indeed is the best way to teach them. We cannot know one’s potential if we quickly turn them away, either

 

[coachdennis]

Well, perhaps I’ve seen too many dropouts - maybe I’m a statistical anomaly.

The examples I gave could be woven into each lesson about a given topic - it wouldn’t have to be presented as discouraging, merely realistic.

After all, soldiers go through boot camp to toughen up so they can survive under actual battlefield conditions. :twocents:

I don’t know any concrete statistics on the subject, but from my years working in RCIA and now just from observations, there does seem to be a retention problem with people after they go through the RCIA process.

Again, this is my experience, but I will share it for it’s worth. The individuals who tend “to stay” are those who have “connections” – for example, someone converting because of a fiancé, a family member, spouse, or someone who knows someone in the parish community.

The biggest “at risk” candidates who show up and have no connection with the parish, parishoners, or know any Catholics at all. They are “isolated” from the getgo and unless the parish community does a good job of integrating them in the community, they do not have access to “support” when times get rough. Again, this is from my personal experience and observations.

From my own personal experience, the “most challenging” person who shows up and says in effect, “I read the catechism, I read this work (fill in the blank), I have memorized the Creed, I’m not interested in community or sharing or works of mercy… when do I get baptized?”

 

[LisaA]

I don’t know any concrete statistics on the subject, but from my years working in RCIA and now just from observations, there does seem to be a retention problem with people after they go through the RCIA process.

Again, this is my experience, but I will share it for it’s worth. The individuals who tend “to stay” are those who have “connections” – for example, someone converting because of a fiancé, a family member, spouse, or someone who knows someone in the parish community.

The biggest “at risk” candidates who show up and have no connection with the parish, parishoners, or know any Catholics at all. They are “isolated” from the getgo and unless the parish community does a good job of integrating them in the community, they do not have access to “support” when times get rough. Again, this is from my personal experience and observations.

From my own personal experience, the “most challenging” person who shows up and says in effect, “I read the catechism, I read this work (fill in the blank), I have memorized the Creed, I’m not interested in community or sharing or works of mercy… when do I get baptized?”

This is interesting to me as a convert and as a member of the RCIA team for the past seven years. I’ve found the opposite to that bolded above. The people who stay in my experience are those who REALLY want to be Catholic because they really want to be Catholic. In contrast those converting because they are married to or are going to marry a Catholic or because their mom is pushing them (young adults who were baptized but not confirmed) go through the Easter Vigil and disappear. Of course part of it depends on whether their spouse was a Mass going, participating Catholic or just wanted to get married in the Church or if they are doing it to humor the parents etc.

That being said, I think one of the MOST important sessions is the one we call “Now that you are Catholic” that provides various ways to plug into the Parish. Are you interested in the choir or becoming an EM or a Lector or Children’s Liturgy or do you want to volunteer in the food pantry or whatever time and talent you want to give…In our Parish I have to say it’s the Converts who are volunteering and participating in greater proportion than the Cradle Catholics who may be in the mode of go to Mass and go home.

As to the OPs questions, I think those are good later on in the process. People often don’t know what they are getting into until they get into it! We’ve had the co-habiting couples, the “I already know everything why do I have to participate in Dismissals” candidates etc. So once they have a better understanding of the Catechism, they are better prepared to respond.

To Cheezy, I am speechless about your being “dropped” and don’t understand this at all. I hope you continue with your journey.

Lisa

 

[coachdennis]

This is interesting to me as a convert and as a member of the RCIA team for the past seven years. I’ve found the opposite to that bolded above. The people who stay in my experience are those who REALLY want to be Catholic because they really want to be Catholic. In contrast those converting because they are married to or are going to marry a Catholic or because their mom is pushing them (young adults who were baptized but not confirmed) go through the Easter Vigil and disappear. **Of course part of it depends on whether their spouse was a Mass going, participating Catholic or just wanted to get married in the Church or if they are doing it to humor the parents etc.**That being said, I think one of the MOST important sessions is the one we call “Now that you are Catholic” that provides various ways to plug into the Parish. Are you interested in the choir or becoming an EM or a Lector or Children’s Liturgy or do you want to volunteer in the food pantry or whatever time and talent you want to give…In our Parish I have to say it’s the Converts who are volunteering and participating in greater proportion than the Cradle Catholics who may be in the mode of go to Mass and go home.

As to the OPs questions, I think those are good later on in the process. People often don’t know what they are getting into until they get into it! We’ve had the co-habiting couples, the “I already know everything why do I have to participate in Dismissals” candidates etc. So once they have a better understanding of the Catechism, they are better prepared to respond.

To Cheezy, I am speechless about your being “dropped” and don’t understand this at all. I hope you continue with your journey.

Lisa

In the people I was speaking about, the highlighted was a given. People who were in RCIA to “please” someone else (future spouse or parent) are a different category. Often, they never made it through our program. Again, from my experience people who have connections like the one I mentioned often have a better time of withstanding challenging situations.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Again, this is my experience, but I will share it for it’s worth. The individuals who tend “to stay” are those who have “connections” – for example, someone converting because of a fiancé, a family member, spouse, or someone who knows someone in the parish community.

This is my experience as well.

Something we talk about during RCIA is that people need to find what their place in the Church will be. During RCIA they have a built-in support group, but at some point that will come to an end and they need to know where their connections will be afterward. We encourage them to check out different groups/ministries/activities and report back to the RCIA group what they have learned. Fortunately we have people in these various groups who love talking about what they do with the candidates and catechumens. They’re good about letting the candidates/catechumens get involved in things up to their level of interest and ability. That might mean making sandwiches for the homeless shelter, it might mean helping the ushers and greeting people coming to Mass, it might mean accompanying someone taking communion to the sick.

I absolutely love it when I see former RCIA folks helping with children’s religious education, serving as EMHCs, singing in the choir, and so much more. I think those connections are a key part of keeping them in the Church.

 

[LisaA]

In the people I was speaking about, the highlighted was a given. People who were in RCIA to “please” someone else (future spouse or parent) are a different category. Often, they never made it through our program. Again, from my experience people who have connections like the one I mentioned often have a better time of withstanding challenging situations.

Not arguing with you at all, just funny that it seems we have different experiences. What’s really interesting is when the CONVERT becomes more devoted to the Church than his/her Cradle Catholic spouse. I’ve seen this as often as not.

I think we both agree that getting integrated into the Parish is essential. We’re all looking for a sense of community and making the new Catholics feel integrated into Parish life

Lisa

 

[Kal2012]

1. A lot of RCIA directors actively remind participants that they don’t have to convert at the end of the class. Conversion is optional. In fact, sometimes, they go out of their way to be discouraging if you seem too eager to convert. They want you to understand your obligations and what you are signing up for.
2. I’d be suspicious if someone didn’t question their conversion once in a while. As a recent convert, I still wonder if I did the right thing - even though there are specific reasons why I did convert and love the RCC. People don’t stop questioning their “faith choices” just because they convert - especially, if they’ve always had questions about faith and their relationship with the Church/Jesus. Conversion isn’t an end, but a beginning.
3. I’m just not convinced you can “troubleshoot” RCIA like you troubleshoot a computer problem.

The point of RCIA is to learn more about the church and decide whether you want to be an official member. Every individual has a different starting point when it comes to their entry into RCIA/the Church.

1. I understand the desire to have converts who understand what they are getting into; however, your relationship with the church changes once you go through Easter Vigil. Your responsibilities change. It’s no longer theory, but reality. You can partake in the Eucharist. You are obligated to show up for Obligation Days. Living the life is a lot different than thinking about living the life. (Does that make sense?)

 

[3DOCTORS]

Interesting thoughtful replies. It may vary a lot on the continuum between whether personal connection vs. search for Truth with a capital T motivates a given convert or potential convert.

There was/is a book called How to Survive Being Married to a Catholic (amazon.com/How-Survive-Being-Married-Catholic/dp/089243452X) which went through several editions. At one time I had the first edition when I was young and urgently hoping to get married. I was dating a guy who was a fallen-away insufficiently catechised Catholic. But much of the book would’ve applied to our situation, had we married, just as much as to a “mixed” marriage.

Even after the relationship broke up, I held onto the book in case I met another guy, but also because it was a good resource for how to explain to non-Catholics things such as why Sunday and Holyday Mass attendance was not something to blow off, etc.

The point is, the book did a good job explaining how Catholic teachings might seem strange to the non-Catholic party and how to look at them in depth and hopefully resolve conflicts.

As for the converts who are (understandably) looking for community when they join the Church, and then feel embittered if they don’t find it, or it is fraught with tension and people not getting along, so that the newbie Catholic feels abandoned - they need to be prepared in case it happens. Everybody abandoned Jesus except John and the Blessed Mother and the other Mary. Judas betrayed Him, Peter denied him, the rest ran off. But Jesus remained faithful and obedient to the end, and aren’t we all thankful that He did? :yup:

 

[cheezey]

… I think one of the MOST important sessions is the one we call “Now that you are Catholic” that provides various ways to plug into the Parish. Are you interested in the choir or becoming an EM or a Lector or Children’s Liturgy or do you want to volunteer in the food pantry or whatever time and talent you want to give…In our Parish I have to say it’s the Converts who are volunteering and participating in greater proportion than the Cradle Catholics who may be in the mode of go to Mass and go home.

As to the OPs questions, I think those are good later on in the process. People often don’t know what they are getting into until they get into it! We’ve had the co-habiting couples, the “I already know everything why do I have to participate in Dismissals” candidates etc. So once they have a better understanding of the Catechism, they are better prepared to respond.

To Cheezy, I am speechless about your being “dropped” and don’t understand this at all. I hope you continue with your journey.

Lisa

That makes two of us!!! I’ll continue when I move. This particular parish is not a good example of pretty much anything. That’s a shame.

 

[LisaA]

That makes two of us!!! I’ll continue when I move. This particular parish is not a good example of pretty much anything. That’s a shame.

Glad to hear you were not totally turned off by an unfortunate situation. I think so many leave the Church because they mistake the poor behavior of fallen human beings for what the Church intends for them.

When I went through RCIA I was so enthusiastic you couldn’t have blasted me out. But at the time our (Lay) RCIA leader was very strict and harsh which was a turn off to some of the more reserved or questioning in our classes. I know he had a good heart but just came off in a bad way and we did lose some of our group due to his demeanor. Going to a different parish may well be the key to continuing on your journey with more kindred spirits
Lisa