RCIA - "do you know what you're signing up for" - to prevent dropouts later

[3DOCTORS]

There are, but once people receive their Sacraments, they tend to drop out. We keep the doors open for them until Pentecost, but often it’s only the Catechists and sponsors who show up.

That’s sort of what I feared. :sad_yes: Kind of like folks who leave Mass right after Communion . . . that, too, is a topic for another thread

 

[cheezey]

There are, but once people receive their Sacraments, they tend to drop out. We keep the doors open for them until Pentecost, but often it’s only the Catechists and sponsors who show up.

Why do you suppose they drop out?

That’s sort of what I feared. :sad_yes: Kind of like folks who leave Mass right after Communion . . . that, too, is a topic for another thread

(Agreed!!)

 

[PJM]

=3DOCTORS;11110487]Hi PJM - what you describe sounds pretty good. It seems, though, from what I’ve known of people who later leave the Catholic Faith after converting, that not all RCIA programs are up to snuff. Assuming they’re teaching the doctrine correctly in the first phase you describe, for instance - well, to put it bluntly, that can’t be assumed in every place. There are a lot of “progressives” teaching RCIA and getting the bit in their teeth and misleading people.

Then in the discernment process phase, if there is one in every program’s structure, and that I’ve no way of knowing either, I’m just suggesting that perhaps not every candidate is able to imagine the scenarios in which they will be challenged and have a proactive strategy in place for meeting those challenges.

Are there ongoing meetings for neophytes, and are they effective and focused? That might be a big help for many.

It seems like the U.S. Bishops need to address the things that are going well with RCIA programs vs. the things that aren’t, on a broad scale, but that’s a topic for another thread.

NOT ONLY DO WE AGREE, but this fact led me to create a supplemental Course:
BUILDING BLOCKS OF OUR CATHOLIC FAITH

That covers more topics

ALL in far greater detail

& provides the evidence of How and Why we can [indeed must] do as we Catholics do.

AND OFFER IT FREE OF ALL COST:thumbsup:

It’s now in our forth year of Faith Sharing.

Your points are VALID! God has led me to at least try to do someting about it.

God Bless you my friend,

Patrick
PJM here on CAF

 

[jmcrae]

Why do you suppose they drop out?

Because in most cases all they were doing was punching their ticket to get the Sacraments - they came into the process thinking they knew it all, and never really opened themselves up to the learning.

 

[cheezey]

Because in most cases all they were doing was punching their ticket to get the Sacraments - they came into the process thinking they knew it all, and never really opened themselves up to the learning.

Interesting. And here I am wanting to never stop learning and was dropped. Hmmmm.

 

[jmcrae]

Interesting. And here I am wanting to never stop learning and was dropped. Hmmmm.

I don’t get it, either.

In all my years in RCIA I have never dropped anyone.

I’ve had tons of people drop out when they found out that they had to go to the Marriage Tribunal to sort out their marriages, and I’ve had people drop out when they found out that the Church requires weekly Mass attendance, chastity according to one’s state in life, etc., but I have never asked anyone to leave.

The only reason I ever would is if someone were a disruptive influence. And in my classroom, you would have to be extremely disruptive before I would throw you out. I’m used to working with teenagers, so I’m very thick-skinned.

 

[cheezey]

I don’t get it, either.

In all my years in RCIA I have never dropped anyone.

I’ve had tons of people drop out when they found out that they had to go to the Marriage Tribunal to sort out their marriages, and I’ve had people drop out when they found out that the Church requires weekly Mass attendance, chastity according to one’s state in life, etc., but I have never asked anyone to leave.

The only reason I ever would is if someone were a disruptive influence. And in my classroom, you would have to be extremely disruptive before I would throw you out. I’m used to working with teenagers, so I’m very thick-skinned.

Thank you. I am still baffled. Haven’t heard from anyone in that department in almost four months, just about the same time it took to get in, after 100 inquiries. It took the Bishop’s office just to finally receive a return call. And now I am out. When I move, I could start again…may that be soon…
(I was not a difficult student, just for the record. I did once politely ask that he stop mentioning “losing me to the Protestants” but otherwise, I asked questions that he said were theologian-worthy, so it wasn’t for lack of knowledge or ability…)

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you. I am still baffled. Haven’t heard from anyone in that department in almost four months, just about the same time it took to get in, after 100 inquiries. It took the Bishop’s office just to finally receive a return call. And now I am out. When I move, I could start again…may that be soon…
(I was not a difficult student, just for the record. I did once politely ask that he stop mentioning “losing me to the Protestants” but otherwise, I asked questions that he said were theologian-worthy, so it wasn’t for lack of knowledge or ability…)

Yes, start with a clean slate again when you move. Make sure the expectations are completely clear on whether you are supposed to wait for them to phone you, or just go to the classes as they occur.

 

[PJM]

=jmcrae;11112316]Because in most cases all they were doing was punching their ticket to get the Sacraments - they came into the process thinking they knew it all, and never really opened themselves up to the learning.

As a former RCIA Teacher, and one who continues to Minister and explain and share our Faith to MANY who are considering the CC, I find myself disagreeing with your premisis.

Certainly the Sacraments ARE Important to catholics; but with the same certitude, they are most often not recogonized or understood by non-catholic-Christians. Therefore they have little initial dignifiance to them beyond trying to comprehend WHY they seem to SIGNIFIANT to us

My expereice with them leaving is more inclined to the following: [not necessarly in sequence of importance to them]

Unqualified teacher

Liberal / Progressive [not much different than what they are running from] teachers

An inability to freely ask the questions on there minds and hearts

Either NOT fully teaching our beliefs or explaining them well

Teachers not provinding “evidence” of our beliefs so it comes off as just personal opinions

They find it “TOO Structured”

Not making a sufficient effort of having friendly and personal Fellowship durring RCIA [a HUGE ISSUE, both in RCIA and within the Catholic Community afterwards]

Typlically they come from some sort of “fellowship church” where often, beliefs are on on par or secondary to “Christian Fellowship”

Because we Catholics Do focus WORSHIP on GOD and that is the PRIMARY goal and purpose for our Mass; the lack of “Fellowship in our Worship” is a dramatically different FOCUS. Then because our catholi Fellowship varies soooo much from prish to parish; with the emphasis being on outside of Mass fellowship, that they are not INVITED SPECIFICALLY to join, they often [usually] suffer a SHOCK-lack of fellowship. They don’t know about the ldies groups, Kof C, Bible study ect. HUGE error on our part.

Or as you suggested; not being open to the Holy Spirit trying and offering to work in their lives.

God Bless you,
patrick [PJM]

 

[MJJean]

This thread is making me very grateful for my RCIA team. They may not be perfect, but they’re a good bunch.

They have repeatedly explained that after RCIA we are not required to convert. No pressure.

They have been very welcoming and have done their best to encourage participation in parish activities, groups, etc. and to take us around and introduce us to folks we don’t know and may be too shy to meet on our own.

Tough questions have been encouraged, as well. They are also very honest in their answers. If someone doesn’t know the answer, they will admit as much and find out. If the questioner has a serious issue with doctrine that they cannot overcome, they are advised to think about it, pray on it, study it, and if they still cannot reconcile their personal beliefs with the Church then they are told that maybe Catholicism is not for them.

 

[HoosMommie]

There are, but once people receive their Sacraments, they tend to drop out. We keep the doors open for them until Pentecost, but often it’s only the Catechists and sponsors who show up.

Although ours was a wonderful and informative RCIA program, I am one of those who didn’t go to the follow-on weekly meetings after the Easter Vigil. I simply wasn’t interested in sitting through more of the same, not because I lost interest in the Church but because I just wasn’t interested in more meetings. I love the Church wih all my heart and soul and look forward to Mass every Sunday and the Thursday noon Mass I usually attend. But I study on my own and if I have questions I ask our priest or other persons in the know.

 

[jmcrae]

Although ours was a wonderful and informative RCIA program, I am one of those who didn’t go to the follow-on weekly meetings after the Easter Vigil. I simply wasn’t interested in sitting through more of the same, not because I lost interest in the Church but because I just wasn’t interested in more meetings. I love the Church wih all my heart and soul and look forward to Mass every Sunday and the Thursday noon Mass I usually attend. But I study on my own and if I have questions I ask our priest or other persons in the know.

Why did you assume it was going to be “more of the same”?

Also, calling them “follow-up meetings” makes it sound like the course of studies had already been completed.

The learning content actually isn’t completed until you have completed the Mystagogia topics, as well as the other three sets.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Why did you assume it was going to be “more of the same”?

Also, calling them “follow-up meetings” makes it sound like the course of studies had already been completed.

The learning content actually isn’t completed until you have completed the Mystagogia topics, as well as the other three sets.

I’m realizing my own ignorance since I haven’t gone through RCIA myself. I worked in a Catholic book shop and I know we had copies of the Rite book but I thought it was just for the pastor or DRE’s use. Several pastors would purchase either the full Catechism or a reputable, what would you call it - condensed? version for each student.

And does it vary by diocese? I see that there are some places where wrong information is being taught - is this due to having the right materials but not using them, substituting something else, rogue priests/DRE’s?

I’m glad to learn more. If I could, I’d sit in on our parish’s RCIA sessions but there’s a time conflict with another parish group I’m already involved with. Guess I could check around at another parish . . . I see the end result, the people who leave the Faith between 1-3 years after RCIA. I don’t want to speak out of my ignorance, or sound like I’m blaming RCIA programs for what might not be their deficiency, so I welcome more description and stories from any and all.

 

[jmcrae]

I’m realizing my own ignorance since I haven’t gone through RCIA myself. I worked in a Catholic book shop and I know we had copies of the Rite book but I thought it was just for the pastor or DRE’s use. Several pastors would purchase either the full Catechism or a reputable, what would you call it - condensed? version for each student.

I like to use the YOUCAT since it fits the reading level of most adults today (which is sad, actually - but at least we have the YOUCAT!)

And does it vary by diocese? I see that there are some places where wrong information is being taught - is this due to having the right materials but not using them, substituting something else, rogue priests/DRE’s?

It varies by parish, actually - how interested is the Pastor? Who are the volunteers? (Breathing and has been Confirmed, all the way up to Certified Catechists, and even people with theology degrees.)

If the pastor isn’t interested, then the RCIA won’t be very good, simply because it lacks resources. If the volunteers are just as baffled about Church teaching as the participants, then not much learning will happen. But if you have an interested pastor and well educated Catechists, then it will be a great program.

he RCIA process takes place in four Periods, with three Rites binding them together into one process.

The first Period is the Period of Inquiry. Those not yet baptized complete their Period of Inquiry with the Rite of Acceptance. Those already baptized in other Christian traditions receive the Rite of Welcome.

The goal of the Period of Inquiry is that, initial questions are answered, marriage issues are dealt with, the person enters into a living relationship with Christ and can tell the Gospel in his or her own words, and has begun to use the prayers of the Church in his or her everyday prayer life.

Typical topic headings in this period include, “A Tour of the Church,” “Who is Jesus?”, “Why go to Mass?” and the like.

The second Period is the Period of Catechesis. This period is completed with the Rite of Election for those not yet baptized, and the Rite of Calling to Lenten Renewal for those already baptized.

Typical topic headings during this period include “The Sacraments: An Overview” or “The Nicene Creed.”

The goal of the Period of Catechesis is that the person becomes familiar with the essential teachings of the Church - they will know what is meant by “the Trinity,” “the Incarnation,” and they will be able to tell you the Four Dogmas of Mary.

They now enter the Period of Purification, which encompasses the six weeks of Lent and Holy Week. Those who are to be baptized undergo the Scrutinies, and those already baptized prepare for their First Reconciliation. All participants prepare for Confirmation and First Holy Communion, as well.

Topics include “Seasons of the Church Year,” and “The Meaning of Holy Week.”

The Period of Purification ends with reception of the Sacraments at the Easter Vigil. This is followed by the Period of Mystagogia, which typically runs from Easter to Pentecost. The goal of the Period of Mystagogia is to incorporate the new Catholics into the life of the parish, and to ensure that they remain connected with each other for spiritual support.

Topic headings might look like, “The Role of the Laity,” and “Discerning Your Gifts.” Those who were baptized at the Easter Vigil prepare for their First Reconciliation during this period, as well, and at some point along the way a discussion about how to incorporate the Sacraments into your everyday life will take place, as well.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Wow, jmcrae, you answered that quickly! :aok: Thanks!

I want a YOUCAT myself, just looking for a used copy cheap I think it’d help me in explaining the Faith to others.

Breathing and Confirmed - LOL - luck of the draw; some might be better than the know-it-alls who are borderline “progressive” . . . Faith and devoutness are as important as book knowledge in other words, and they are essential.

So who does put together your parish’s materials? Or from what source(s) are they drawn?

 

[jmcrae]

Wow, jmcrae, you answered that quickly! :aok: Thanks!

I want a YOUCAT myself, just looking for a used copy cheap I think it’d help me in explaining the Faith to others.

Breathing and Confirmed - LOL - luck of the draw; some might be better than the know-it-alls who are borderline “progressive” . . . Faith and devoutness are as important as book knowledge in other words, and they are essential.

So who does put together your parish’s materials? Or from what source(s) are they drawn?

I am the person in charge of designing the catechetical program and recruiting the volunteers. We are currently using the “Journey of Faith” series from Ligouri Press, along with the YOUCAT and St. Joseph’s Sunday Missal.

We occasionally incorporate other resources as well - for example, we make use of Mark Shea’s Making Senses of Scripture in the section on Scripture.

 

[bcuster]

I think every RCIA class should present several “tough dilemma” scenarios and emphasize what really committing to become Catholic entails. Maybe even role play a response. Examples:

• You are on vacation and your non-Catholic family members present an item on the itinerary that would preclude Mass attendance on Sunday morning, and you also have something on Saturday evening you all are doing. Plus they look at you weird when you ask them for a phone book to look up Mass times, you don’t have your own vehicle or one to borrow . . . you get the picture.
• You hear about a “tough case” of a married couple who has children and the pregnancies have been high risk, and all the “reasonable” people around them are advising - sometimes quite sternly - they use artificial birth control or sterilization. Or you might be part of the couple in question.
• Your favorite niece is “marrying” her lesbian “partner” and wants you to attend the ceremony.
• You really don’t get the whole veneration of the Blessed Mother thing, and one of your friends from your former Protestant congregation shows you a Bible verse that “proves” it’s wrong. Or one that proves you shouldn’t call your priest “Father.” Or any number of similar scenarios. Suddenly you are all twisted up inside.
• There is another instance of scandal in the Church reported in the news media.
• You have a personal life crisis where you question everything and whether you made the right decision to convert.
• You feel lonely and adrift in your parish after the Easter Vigil is long past, no one seems to care whether you’re there or not, or you are even actively snubbed by one or more parishioners. Or you are the center of some controversy and very upset about it.

I’m sure many reading this could add their own items to the list. I’m a firm believer in “troubleshooting” - it can’t prevent every problem, but maybe it would help.

I agree that this may be part of the RCIA process; however RCIA is about bringing people into a closer relationship with Christ and his Church not preventing “drop outs.” It has been my experience that those who “drop out” need more time to process the information and many come back a year or two later when they are more ready.

 

[jmcrae]

I agree that this may be part of the RCIA process; however RCIA is about bringing people into a closer relationship with Christ and his Church not preventing “drop outs.” It has been my experience that those who “drop out” need more time to process the information and many come back a year or two later when they are more ready.

Yes - and the most important thing to remember is that this is not our work - it is the work of the Holy Spirit. And if we can bring them to Jesus, Jesus will convert them. The rest is important, of course, but means nothing if we forget why we’re there.

 

[3DOCTORS]

You are both right. bcuster, I hope they would feel free to call their sponsor or the priest if they’re experiencing difficulties, and I hope this gets emphasized enough. Most likely it does.

And jmcrae, you’re right about the Holy Spirit - though as the Body of Christ we have a part to play in assisting or facilitating or whatever word applies.

I know I get really distressed when I hear of someone who has left - particularly if the person had been very happy with becoming Catholic in the beginning and even for months or years after, then for whatever reason, they aren’t happy, or they cave into pressure from a spouse or something. I can’t control this but it still makes me sad to see. :bighanky:

Becoming involved with RCIA in some way is always at the back of my mind. I have a great zeal for souls. And I believe we must have a solid helpful education and discernment process to offer potential converts, and ideally the priest should emphasize to Joe and Mary Catholic in the pews during all the scrutinies and so on that these are potential new members of Christ’s body and to be welcoming and go out of our way to be helpful to them. :hug3:

Guess it’s a process with many aspects - intellect, spirit, heart, sacrament, community, etc.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

And does it vary by diocese? I see that there are some places where wrong information is being taught - is this due to having the right materials but not using them, substituting something else, rogue priests/DRE’s?

Every parish is different. Some do a great job of following the rites and some do a poor job, often out of ignorance. The number of people who work with RCIA but who have never read the complete rite is amazing.

If you do read the rite you learn about the whole philosophy behind RCIA. It’s an apprenticeship into the Christian way of life, it’s a process of gradual conversion of heart. And it all happens in God’s time, not according to some arbitrary schedule that assumes one size fits all.

I like to use the YOUCAT since it fits the reading level of most adults today (which is sad, actually - but at least we have the YOUCAT!)

We give everyone the US Catholic Catechism for Adults. I find it pretty readable but you may be right about the reading level. I like that it will be there in the future if people have questions about what the Church teaches on this or that topic.

It varies by parish, actually - how interested is the Pastor? Who are the volunteers? (Breathing and has been Confirmed, all the way up to Certified Catechists, and even people with theology degrees.)

This is one of those things that bothers me. If parishes really cared about RCIA (and equally so for children’s and teen’s religious education) they would require certification or require people to pursue certification as they work in RCIA.

Breathing and Confirmed - LOL - luck of the draw; some might be better than the know-it-alls who are borderline “progressive” . . . Faith and devoutness are as important as book knowledge in other words, and they are essential.

But faith and devotion aren’t sufficient. I had someone on the team who was very faithful…and also very ignorant. I had to correct so many of the things she said. If she wanted to talk about how much praying the rosary meant to her, it was great. But when she got into things like the sacraments, she often had no idea what she was talking about.