RCIA- Is it absolutely necessary?

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G_S said:
Well, as parish deacon, I started off the teaching portion of RCIA just last night. The original schedule did not include the Trinity, the Father, or the Holy Spirit. Now it does. I keep it orthodox, heady, intense, and very biblical. Anything less is not only wrong but is unfair a a bit of a rip-off. Imagine a auto mechanics course that barely taught about cars or a basketball coach that mainly explained the rules for baseball.
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May I ask how the RCIA schedule/syllabus is determined in the first place? Is there some sort of direction from Rome or from the Diocese? Who decides what gets presented?

If I was in charge of RCIA one of the first things I would do at the first class was to encourage every student to get a copy of the Bible and the Catechism (if the parish has a stock of the Catechism of the Catholic Church), I would hand them out on the first day. I would also tell them about EWTN television and radio, and about Catholic Answers.
 
Verita said:
For those of you who think so, I am not trying to beat the system or get around what I am supposed to do. I’m not concerned the process being boring. I’m concerned because I don’t see what sitting around talking about how we feel about particular Bible passages is supposed to help me become a Catholic in any way. I am gaining nothing from this whole process except frustration at the occasional heretical teaching (when any teaching occurs). Perhaps it is just my parish that has a particularly ineffective RCIA process, but this is the most active Parish in the area.

Furthermore, some people here have expressed the possibility that for a validly Baptized Christian, RCIA may not be the correct process to be begin with. I would like to know for certain if this is true, if I am supposed to be in RCIA or whether there is some more appropriate process for me to participate in. I don’t know. I’m here to get answers.
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I hope you hang in there and get your answers soon. After reading your posts I can feel your frustration. You are the exception to the rule, obviously, because you are going in knowing a lot about the faith and have a great interest in it.

Hopefully, you will get a priest with an understanding heart to talk to. And, if he can’t do anything about the need for going through RCIA, then I hope you would go through it with the eye to see its deficiencies and not be overwhelmed by them. The Lord can get you through this. I have heard others on other boards saying the same thing, but they loved the truth of the Church enough to put up with this.

It sounds like you may be better able to explain the faith to others than those leaders that are there.

God bless you…

Dorothy

God bless
 
Verita said:
For those of you who think so, I am not trying to beat the system or get around what I am supposed to do. I’m not concerned the process being boring. I’m concerned because I don’t see what sitting around talking about how we feel about particular Bible passages is supposed to help me become a Catholic in any way. I am gaining nothing from this whole process except frustration at the occasional heretical teaching (when any teaching occurs). Perhaps it is just my parish that has a particularly ineffective RCIA process, but this is the most active Parish in the area.

Furthermore, some people here have expressed the possibility that for a validly Baptized Christian, RCIA may not be the correct process to be begin with. I would like to know for certain if this is true, if I am supposed to be in RCIA or whether there is some more appropriate process for me to participate in. I don’t know. I’m here to get answers.
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What you are describing does not even begin to resemble RCIA at my parish. I’m a convert who had studied on my own for years before entering RCIA. I was already a validly baptized Christian who did not need the process, but I found it the most rewarding adn challenging 9 months of my life. My parish requests that candidates go through the lessons/retreat with the catechumens in part because they have found that many people think they know what their own church and the Catholic church teaches, but they don’t have it exactly right. As you have stated, possibly a deacon is teaching incorrect things, so a person without his formal training can be in error also.

We have a team of catechists who are orthodox to church teachings and hand us our own catechism with instructions on how to use it. We cover basics in the beginning such as shared beliefs of all mainline Christians and church history to give us a jumping off point. We move through the year learning in depth about the sacraments, the Blessed Mother and saints, birth control, euthanasia and other deep topics with lessons followed by small group discussions. All handouts give references to Scripture and the catechism for our own further study. Questions are strongly encouraged and answered are given from reliable sources, never opinion.

If none of this sounds like your program then I say run to find a better one before the year progresses too far. Call the diocesan office and ask if they can recommend a parish with a strong, orthodox program near you. I drove across a huge metro area to get to the parish that I eventually joined because of their incredible RCIA.

I do strongly encourage you to spend the time in a good RCIA program making the faith journey with others rather than just rushing to become Catholic. I can tell you that if you ever think that you know everything that there is about the church and being Catholic, then you are wrong. There is always more to learn, more depths to plumb. It will be a lifelong journey of learning and growing and you are still in the early days of the Catholic part of the journey. We have a number of Catholic confirmation candidates and auditors who sit through the entire 9 months just to deepen their understanding of their Catholic faith. Many of them say that they did not get into particular topics in depth in CCD as kids because of course you are not going to talk about sex, abortion, birth control, euthanasia, etc at the same level with children.

I’ve been a sponsor every year since converting and I hear lessons in a new way each year even when the same catechist presents because I’m at a different place in my faith journey. I may understand one topic better because of new experiences on a retreat or in spiritual formation or because of spiritual direction. I get to view issues through the eyes of my candidate or catechumen or the others in our small group discussions or on the retreat.

Even if you feel like you don’t need the process, perhaps you could help others in their journey? Our parish uses this process to build the sense of community in new members so that after Easter vigil they have a core group of parishioners with whom they are well acquainted. I heard in a lecture that as many as 50 percent of new Catholic converts are not regularly practicing their faith after a couple of years in the US. (I don’t have the citation for the study.) RCIA also helps to transition our new Catholics through the mystagogia phase (after Easter) into discerning the ministries that they may wish to participate in.
 
Chris-WA said:
May I ask how the RCIA schedule/syllabus is determined in the first place? Is there some sort of direction from Rome or from the Diocese? Who decides what gets presented?

If I was in charge of RCIA one of the first things I would do at the first class was to encourage every student to get a copy of the Bible and the Catechism (if the parish has a stock of the Catechism of the Catholic Church), I would hand them out on the first day. I would also tell them about EWTN television and radio, and about Catholic Answers.
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For us I developed my own syllabus, tweeking it every year. Which was posted her one time. We did exactly what you said gave everyone a Catholic Bible and Catechism along with a list of suggested additional material available at the local bookstore. Lots of handout material with every session re-caping the PowerPoint presentation on the topic. One of the first sessions was What is a Catechism? How did it come about? and How to use it.

Every presentation required my review and had to have CCC references, Scripture references, it hade to mention at least one other Church document on the topic, as well as some of the Church Fathers on the topic.
 
Here is my outline for RCIA. Keep in mind the idea here is that Catechumens should spend one full liturgical year in RCIA and Candidates somewhat less based on each individual. These are the weekday catechetical sessions and are different from the BOW sessions on Sunday for the Catechumens. (Candidates are welcome if they wish to participate)

Christian topics(one per week) for the Catechumenate:
  1. The Journey
  2. God/ Who is God?, The Trinity, The Incarnation
  3. Christology
  4. The Holy Spirit
  5. OT Salvation history
  6. Divine Revelation (Scripture and Sacred Tradition)
  7. The 10 Commandments
  8. Magisterium (Catechism and Church documents)
  9. The Creeds
  10. Prayer/ Prayer styles
  11. Grace/ Virtues
  12. The Sacraments (in general)
  13. The Mass (up to dismissal)
  14. Open Q&A
  15. The Life of Christ ( the Gospel message)
  16. Beatitudes
  17. Stewardship
  18. Seven deadly sins
  19. Morality
  20. The Our Father
  21. The New Testament story
  22. History of the “Early” Church
  23. Primacy of Peter
  24. History of the Bible, The Gospels
  25. The Liturgical cycle
  26. Open Q&A
*. Lent
*. Christmas season

Catholic Beliefs and Practices for both the later Catechumenate and Candidates:
27. The Journey
28. Catholic devotions and sacramentals (Stations of the Cross, Rosary)
29. Rites, (Welcome, Acceptance, Election, Vigil)
30. Liturgy (The complete Mass, liturgical prayer)
31. Communion of Saints
32. Mary
33. Open Q&A
34. Structure of the Catholic Church
35. Church history
36. The Eucharist
37. Baptism, Confirmation
38. Marriage, Holy Orders
39. Reconciliation, Anointing of the Sick
40. Precepts of the Church
41. Organization of the Catholic Church
42. Religious orders
43. Doctors and Fathers of the Church
44. Catholic social teaching
45. Eschatology (Judgment, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory)
46. Open Q&A
47. Ecumenism
48. Retreats, Pilgrimages, Shrines, Monasteries
49. Catholic Organizations and Apostolates
50. Angels
51.
52.
 
Has anyone linked to this CA article yet? Scroll down to “Preparation for Christians”.

It summarizes the USCCB document National Statutes for the Catechumenate, which I couldn’t find online.

There is a lot to wade through in this thread and that document. Let me summarize further:
  1. RCIA is not made for baptized Christians.
  2. RCIA is used, by many parishes, for baptized Christians.
  3. RCIA, in many parishes, is lacking in various ways.
You have some choices:
  1. You can stick it out and consider the experience penance and obedience. There are many recommendations on this thread how to cope. I recommend: when everyone shares their feels on the readings (i.e. pools their ignorance) you share something from the catechism that relates, using the helpful index in the back.
  2. You can go to a better RCIA in another parish.
  3. You could receive private instruction from a priest and be received when he thinks you’re ready.
Note: both 2 and 3 will require “shopping around”, which many feel exhibits a “protestant mindset”. But none of the options are wrong and personally, I would encourage you to go with option 3.
 
RonRule said:
You have some choices:
  1. You can stick it out and consider the experience penance and obedience. There are many recommendations on this thread how to cope. I recommend: when everyone shares their feels on the readings (i.e. pools their ignorance) you share something from the catechism that relates, using the helpful index in the back.
  2. You can go to a better RCIA in another parish.
  3. You could receive private instruction from a priest and be received when he thinks you’re ready.
Note: both 2 and 3 will require “shopping around”, which many feel exhibits a “protestant mindset”. But none of the options are wrong and personally, I would encourage you to go with option 3.
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I agree. My husband and I used option 3 when we joined the Catholic Church in the NO, and my son used this same option when he joined in a TLM parish. For my husband and I, our first mass was in mid-August, and we were received into the church on November 7. I think we had about five meetings with our priest during that time, where he questioned us about our knowledge of Catholic doctrine, and we asked him to explain anything we were having trouble with.

My son didn’t actually meet with the priest on a regular basis, since we traveled two hours each way to attend the TLM on Sundays. He was already attending the parish CCD, and our priest knew that we (his parents) were already Catholic. The priest e-mailed my son a test that he had to pass! We still joke about that test, as my husband and I say that if we had had to take it we would still be protestants! LOL

Verita, I would suggest “shopping around”. Catholics shop around for orthodox parishes all the time (sad but true). No need to sit through nearly a year of RCIA if you are already ready to join. RCIA has become easy for many priests, but it isn’t the only way to join the Church.
 
Many people have the mistaken impression that RCIA is only for non-Christians. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Anyone entering the Catholic church MUST receive RCIA training and I would even recommend it to Catholics who have no idea what their religion teaches and stands for.

If you’re no happy with the RCIA at the parish you are planning to join, then go to another parish. Most RCIA groups will let you join at anytime during the first half of the course and maybe even at anytime during the whole course. PLEASE, please, find and group you are happy with, You will not regret it.

I loved every minute I spent in RCIA and miss the time I spent there. I’m in Bible study this year, but it’s not nearly as stimulating as the Thursday evenings I spent with the RCIA group last year.
 
LeahInancsi said:
Many people have the mistaken impression that RCIA is only for non-Christians. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Anyone entering the Catholic church MUST receive RCIA training and I would even recommend it to Catholics who have no idea what their religion teaches and stands for.
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Strictly speaking, RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults) is intended for the unbaptized.

While it’s true that everyone entering the Catholic Church must receive Catechetical training (Catechism), which is included as part of the RCIA process, it’s not true that “everyone” has to attend RCIA.

All of the unbaptized have to, but persons already baptized would only attend the Catechism classes - (hopefully) they would not be undergoing the Rites.

There are “substitute rites” for the baptized in cases where it is not possible to separate the baptized from the RCIA, but the actual RCIA process (Inquiry, Acceptance, Catechism, Election, Purification, Initiation (Baptism, Confirmation, and First Holy Communion at the Easter Vigil), Mystagogia) is primarily intended for unbaptized persons.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
For us I developed my own syllabus, tweeking it every year. Which was posted her one time. We did exactly what you said gave everyone a Catholic Bible and Catechism along with a list of suggested additional material available at the local bookstore. Lots of handout material with every session re-caping the PowerPoint presentation on the topic. One of the first sessions was What is a Catechism? How did it come about? and How to use it.

Every presentation required my review and had to have CCC references, Scripture references, it hade to mention at least one other Church document on the topic, as well as some of the Church Fathers on the topic.
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How soon can you move to the Seattle/Tacoma area?
 
RonRule said:
You have some choices:
  1. You can stick it out and consider the experience penance and obedience. There are many recommendations on this thread how to cope. I recommend: when everyone shares their feels on the readings (i.e. pools their ignorance) you share something from the catechism that relates, using the helpful index in the back.
  2. You can go to a better RCIA in another parish.
  3. You could receive private instruction from a priest and be received when he thinks you’re ready.
Note: both 2 and 3 will require “shopping around”, which many feel exhibits a “protestant mindset”. But none of the options are wrong and personally, I would encourage you to go with option 3.
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I say you should go with option three. I’d think you’d be quite happy if you could find an FSSP priest. Very orthodox. Here’s a link: fssp.org/en/coordonnees.htm Anyways, definitely “shop around” for a priest who is willing to do private lessons. I went through RCIA myself. I didn’t experience what you did. We did have more support team members than catechumens. But we didn’t just do the Mormon “personal testimony” stuff you have mentioned. We focused a lot on the Creeds, but touched on all the important stuff as well, Sacraments, Church history, Holy Order, etc. I’ll pray for you.
 
jmcrae said:
Strictly speaking, RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults) is intended for the unbaptized.

While it’s true that everyone entering the Catholic Church must receive Catechetical training (Catechism), which is included as part of the RCIA process, it’s not true that “everyone” has to attend RCIA.

All of the unbaptized have to, but persons already baptized would only attend the Catechism classes - (hopefully) they would not be undergoing the Rites.

There are “substitute rites” for the baptized in cases where it is not possible to separate the baptized from the RCIA, but the actual RCIA process (Inquiry, Acceptance, Catechism, Election, Purification, Initiation (Baptism, Confirmation, and First Holy Communion at the Easter Vigil), Mystagogia) is primarily intended for unbaptized persons.
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My point is, regardless of what the Church says, anyone converting from another religion will be clueless of the Catholic religion if they don’t go through RCIA.

In my RCIA class, this unbaptized soul knew more about Catholicism most of the baptized people converting from Protestant religions. I have no reason to think my class would be the exception.
 
LeahInancsi said:
My point is, regardless of what the Church says, anyone converting from another religion will be clueless of the Catholic religion if they don’t go through RCIA.

In my RCIA class, this unbaptized soul knew more about Catholicism most of the baptized people converting from Protestant religions. I have no reason to think my class would be the exception.
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I’m glad that you have an orthodox program. I started posting on this forum mainly due to the utter horror that befell a co worker of mine who went through RCIA here in San Diego. Basically he was taught that just about anything and everything is OK to believe. Love everybody, judge nobody and let everybody do their own thing.👍

They would have meditation sessions where a candle was lit and they were told to reflect on the candles light and look deep within themselves for the inner light of knowledge and freedom. They were explicitly told that everyone, Catholic or not baptized or not were welcome at the Lords Table and the Eucharist was meant for all without discrimination. It was as they said food for the trip not a reward for following the rules. They were taught that the Eucharist while symbolically representing Christ, could not in any sense be thought of as containing his divinity as that would be impossible and an idea that the modern person must not have.

Did I mention love everybody, judge nobody and let everybody do ther own thing?👍

I stopped posting about his experiences after a while because they got to be too bizarre and even anti Catholic in many respects. They were supposed to use one set of materials provided by the diocese, but the woman in charge had them study long portions from a catechism called Christ Among Us by Anthony Wilhelm. I read some of the handouts:bigyikes: and actually bought a copy of the book to read. I was stunned that a book that spoke of the faith in the manner that it did would exist, but this one even had a Nihil Obstat and Impramatur.issued in 1981.

Note: I understand that Rome rescinded both several years after the book was published. Apparently they were taken completely unaware by just what the book said and tauight as Catholic doctrine. However, the damage had already been done, and apparently still is going on.

Did I mention love everybody, judge nobody and let everybody do their own thing?👍

They were not taught about the sacraments except thay were told they would receive a symbolic initiation to the church through Baptism, for which they could choose the words for the formula and confirmation and the Holy Eucharist, which as we know is merely symbolic. Marriage was left out due to the controversy over gay marriage that was raging at the time as was Holy Orders as women were not allowed to receive it. Therefore since these two sacraments were manifestly unfair and unjust they could and would not be spoken of. The Deacon who gave that class told them that. He was dressed in alb and a rainbow striped stole and wore a Dignity pin. I actually attended that meeting just to see for myself what was going on.

Did I forget love everybodyy, judge nobody and let everybody do their own thing? 👍

I advised that my friend leave the program when the director said that as Catholics they were under absolutely no compulsion to agree with, accept as truth or obey anything that came from Rome or the Bishops… Everyone was to follow his own conscience first and make up his own mind. God expected no less from him than that.

So be thankful for what you have. But rest assured there are programs out there that need to be terminated.
 
I agree. RCIA is a complete waste of time. It’s usually taught by liberal or practically heretical people. You learn hardly anything at all - except how to bite your tongue. The only reason I was able to become Catholic is because I spent three YEARS going to three different RCIA classes in three different parishes until I found a semi-traditional church that acctually taught Catholic stuff and a very non-RCIA style class. And the only reason I knew is because I had self-studied and could recognize Catholic teachings. How many people hwo aren’t self-educated about the Catholic faith are going to have that kind of persistence? I think they’d just give up and go to the Evangelical church down the street… I mean, why sit through pointless classes wasting their time and being told they “have” to go through these classes to be baptized?

I think RCIA should be replaced with a teaching class that has to abide bye the same exact ciriculum all across America and has to be taught by a Priest or Decon - not some femmenist that wants us to talk about how we “feel” and draw pictures of what we think God looks like.

I wonder how many souls the Church loses each year through this joke called RCIA ???

I think that we Catholics are far too ready to say, “Just submit and obey” rather then make the changes that need to be made to reclaim the parishes from the hippie liberal stuff that has out-stayed its welcome!!
 
LeahInancsi said:
My point is, regardless of what the Church says, anyone converting from another religion will be clueless of the Catholic religion if they don’t go through RCIA.

In my RCIA class, this unbaptized soul knew more about Catholicism most of the baptized people converting from Protestant religions. I have no reason to think my class would be the exception.
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We need to get away from saying that anyone converting to Catholicism from another Christian tradition must go through RCIA!

They must (IMO) go through a PROCESS LIKE RCIA. But not RCIA which is a specific process for a specific purpose.
 
Chris-WA said:
Now that’s funny! I guess you saw the writing on the wall, huh? Please come back. The liberals are running rampant up here.
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I actually attended a Saturday Mass last year in Bothell. I knew something was up as soon as I walked in. The Homily was given by a parish coordinator? It consisted of how we were to be accepting of the homosexual lifestyle and how the Church was behind the imes in refusing Ordination to females. After the first five minutes me and about 30 other people unknown to me walked outside. Most of the people were visibly shaken by what they witnessed and had no idea it was going to happen. The celebrant simply sat there and did nothing, I would have to assume it was with his approval. I went to Mass Sunday morning at a different parish. I don’t advocate walking out of Mass, it was the first time I had ever done that and I have never done it again.

What supprised me was that this parish was in the diocese that produced the wonderful DVD on the RCIA process called *Come to the Water - The Adult Jounrey to Baptism. *USCCB 5-707.

I used this at the beginning of RCIA last year to give everyone an overview of RCIA for the session called “The Journey” in the outline.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
I actually attended a Saturday Mass last year in Bothell. I knew something was up as soon as I walked in. The Homily was given by a parish coordinator? It consisted of how we were to be accepting of the homosexual lifestyle and how the Church was behind the imes in refusing Ordination to females. After the first five minutes me and about 30 other people unknown to me walked outside. Most of the people were visibly shaken by what they witnessed and had no idea it was going to happen. The celebrant simply sat there and did nothing, I would have to assume it was with his approval. I went to Mass Sunday morning at a different parish. I don’t advocate walking out of Mass, it was the first time I had ever done that and I have never done it again.
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Sounds like you’ve seen some of the same things I’ve seen up here. When I moved into my parish in Puyallup three years ago I noticed that laypeople routinely gave the homily at our masses, and there was always a priest present. I asked our pastoral administrator about this practice and she told me it was a tradition at the parish and that the priest has a ‘pastoral discretion’ that allows this go occur. I didn’t know better back then but later found out this was pure nonsense. The GIRM specifically forbids such practice and calls it a liturgical abuse.

Shortly thereafter we got a new priest who put an end to that hogwash, and some other silliness that was going on, but in the process upset the parish liberal mafia. They complained enough to the bishop until the bishop eventually transfered the new young priest out of the parish. That was a huge win for the liberal mafia. It was and is a big scandal within our parish, and caused many to leave for other parishes.
 
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