RCIA off to a rocky start...

[kalt]

I’m trying to discern my path, finding myself at the fork of the Protestant and Catholic roads. I have a wife (raised Catholic but not practicing), and we have a 9 year old. As part of this discernment, I signed up for RCIA at our local parish. Not knowing where we’ll end up, and driven somewhat by the (internal) pressure of RCIA being on an annual cycle, we asked about catechesis of our 9 year old (who is 2 years older than typical 1st communion age). They said she should take the RCIA class also. I questioned the concept of having effective catechesis in a mixed group like that, but the leader insisted that having the kids in the class was a wonderful experience. Also, there are a couple of other kids in the class including a friend from school, so we gave it a try.

Well, not surprisingly, the class is pretty dreadful for both adults and kids. The level is too high for 9 year olds and too low for adults. Everyone is glassy-eyed and yawning within 30 minutes. The overall experience so far ranges from mildly (me) to extremely (daughter) Catholicly repellent. And this while we’re still covering basic Christian foundations on which virtually all Christians agree.

I realize now that part of my problem is a reluctance to force on my daughter a decision I have not even completely made for myself. So, I’m inclined to let her back out until my wife and I settle on our path. We can then focus better on how best to guide our 9 year old spiritually. That would alleviate the distraction of trying to make it a positive experience for her while I’m working through my own questions.

However, even if she doesn’t come, the other kids will keep it generationally mixed. I’m still facing a boring class where serious discussion of questions of faith and morals is somewhat stifled by sensitivity to younger perspectives.

I did have a talk with one of the leaders, but there’s only so much they can do. They offered private tutoring for our daughter, but that doesn’t really solve the central concerns. They say things usually work out fine, but it’s hard to be optimistic. I suppose with God all things are possible.

Any suggestions or similar experiences that might be helpful?

Thanks,
Jerry

At our church, there is a class for kids who are a little older than the usual age for First Communion. And there’s another for even older kids. If there are several kids in the group, ask around and see if the other adults agree that they are being short-changed in their own experience and that the kids are bored silly. If most agree, approach the director of youth education. There is probably someone who will take on the kids as a class designed for them.

 

[kalt]

Nope, we have a loser. (Not that you’re a loser of course, it’s just the wrong answer.)

In RCIA, you are either entering the faith as an infant, or entering the faith above the age of reason as a catechumen or candidate. The age of reason is 7. A child under 7 will receive the first sacrament of initiation, baptism, during the Easter Vigil with the parents, or by special arrangement and with permission of the priest at another time in the RCIA process.

A child over the age of 7 will receive all sacraments of initiation along with other catechumens. Of course, if the child is already baptized he or she is candidate, and receives only first communion and confirmation.

Confirmation is not withheld until the typical age if a child over 7 is converting with his or her parents in RCIA. I had a child over the age of 7 who received all of the sacraments of initiation in RCIA, and her sister received infant baptism and will receive communion and confirmation at the normal times.

My son was baptized as an infant but didn’t recieve his First Holy Communion until he was 13 (special class for older kids). Confirmation came later, at the usual time.

 

[jmcrae]

My son was baptized as an infant but didn’t recieve his First Holy Communion until he was 13 (special class for older kids). Confirmation came later, at the usual time.

What is “the usual time” in your area? Around here, kids typically receive the Sacrament of Confirmation when they are 12 years old.

 

[Hesychios]

In RCIA, you are either entering the faith as an infant, or entering the faith above the age of reason as a catechumen or candidate. The age of reason is 7. A child under 7 will receive the first sacrament of initiation, baptism, during the Easter Vigil with the parents, or by special arrangement and with permission of the priest at another time in the RCIA process.
.

Legalistic rationalism run amuck.

The “age of reason” is an artificial barrier.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Legalistic rationalism run amuck.

The “age of reason” is an artificial barrier.

To what? Both a six year old and a seven year old will receive all of the sacraments in time under these rules, and both will be fully instructed in their faith when they enter the faith.

If having different expectations for children based on age (an artificial cut off) cause such problems, then by that reasoning we should do away with the age cut off for kindergarten and let children decide when to start school. It really isn’t that important in the long run. It just helps to have the age of reason guideline for practical reasons. The Church doesn’t believe something magical happens at the age of 7. It’s just a developmental guideline the Church uses to introduce the sacraments.

catholicity.com/encyclopedia/r/reason,age_of.html

 

[kalt]

What is “the usual time” in your area? Around here, kids typically receive the Sacrament of Confirmation when they are 12 years old.

15

 

[Hesychios]

To what? Both a six year old and a seven year old will receive all of the sacraments in time under these rules, and both will be fully instructed in their faith when they enter the faith.

If having different expectations for children based on age (an artificial cut off) cause such problems, then by that reasoning we should do away with the age cut off for kindergarten and let children decide when to start school. It really isn’t that important in the long run. It just helps to have the age of reason guideline for practical reasons. The Church doesn’t believe something magical happens at the age of 7. It’s just a developmental guideline the Church uses to introduce the sacraments.

Totally unecessary.

The early church (which most Catholics will assert includes their church) did not have these “developmental guidelines”. The three initiatory sacraments should be given together at the earliest opportunity, and that is how it was, even in Rome, in the beginning.

By departing from this early church principle, the Latin Catholic church has introduced something new but not better. This thinking (“age of reason” to qualify for reception of a sacrament) is a legacy of the scholastic era, which is at least 1000 years after Christ.

By extension this concept once led some Protestants to think that delaying baptism is a good thing. This is the fruit of novel thinking.

Another problem is that children do not make their First Communion until they have made a First Confession. This makes Confession an initiatory sacrament, totally out of place. Perhaps that is the origin of the notorious “Catholic guilt”, who knows? It seems to violate the spirit of the “Good News”.

The third problem I can think of off the top of my head is that it turns Confirmation (usually, but not always given separately and last) into some sort of ‘graduation’, after which many parents and most children come to think of Christian education as complete! Nothing could be further from the truth. Sadly, this kind of thinking has put many Catholics at risk, and the dropout rate for young Catholics is enormous. Like everything else in life, one never stops learning about God and the Faith.

Ultimately, this glorifies the intellect. One must “Know this and that”, and be capable of understanding it, before one is granted the grace and strength of a sacrament. We all know that all sacraments are efficacious whether or not we understand them, or even if we are unaware of them! This is the holy work of God.

It is time for Latin Catholics to start thinking outside of the rationalistic/scholastic box they have built around themselves.

 

[kalt]

To what? Both a six year old and a seven year old will receive all of the sacraments in time under these rules, and both will be fully instructed in their faith when they enter the faith.

If having different expectations for children based on age (an artificial cut off) cause such problems, then by that reasoning we should do away with the age cut off for kindergarten and let children decide when to start school. It really isn’t that important in the long run. It just helps to have the age of reason guideline for practical reasons. The Church doesn’t believe something magical happens at the age of 7. It’s just a developmental guideline the Church uses to introduce the sacraments.

catholicity.com/encyclopedia/r/reason,age_of.html

Anyone who works with kids knows that there is a big leap in developement between the start of 1st grade and the end of 2nd when a child usually recieves First Holy Communion.

“The age of reason” isn’t a barrier any more than other age-related rules are barriers. The rules are there for solid reasons. There are well-known age-related rules regarding driving, voting, running the office of president, drinking, and joining the military - minimum and maximum age.

 

[kalt]

Totally unecessary.

The early church (which most Catholics will assert includes their church) did not have these “developmental guidelines”. The three initiatory sacraments should be given together at the earliest opportunity, and that is how it was, even in Rome, in the beginning.

By departing from this early church principle, the Latin Catholic church has introduced something new but not better. This thinking (“age of reason” to qualify for reception of a sacrament) is a legacy of the scholastic era, which is at least 1000 years after Christ.

By extension this concept once led some Protestants to think that delaying baptism is a good thing. This is the fruit of novel thinking.

Another problem is that children do not make their First Communion until they have made a First Confession. This makes Confession an initiatory sacrament, totally out of place. Perhaps that is the origin of the notorious “Catholic guilt”, who knows? It seems to violate the spirit of the “Good News”.

The third problem I can think of off the top of my head is that it turns Confirmation (usually, but not always given separately and last) into some sort of ‘graduation’, after which many parents and most children come to think of Christian education as complete! Nothing could be further from the truth. Sadly, this kind of thinking has put many Catholics at risk, and the dropout rate for young Catholics is enormous. Like everything else in life, one never stops learning about God and the Faith.

Ultimately, this glorifies the intellect. One must “Know this and that”, and be capable of understanding it, before one is granted the grace and strength of a sacrament. We all know that all sacraments are efficacious whether or not we understand them, or even if we are unaware of them! This is the holy work of God.

It is time for Latin Catholics to start thinking outside of the rationalistic/scholastic box they have built around themselves.

Are you aware that a child doesn’t have to make a first confession before receiving First Communion? Is customary, but it’s not unheard of for a child to make his confession later.

With all the scandals involving athletes, celebrities, and politicians (and the people we know, too) it seems that there isn’t quite enough “Catholic guilt” going around.

Are there sacraments that you think the person should know about before taking part in? If not First Communion and Confession, why not?

What does recieving “unworthily” mean? If a person doesn’t understand the sacrament, how can he determine if he is recieving unworthily?

 

[Hesychios]

Are you aware that a child doesn’t have to make a first confession before receiving First Communion? Is customary, but it’s not unheard of for a child to make his confession later.

Absolutely.

In the eastern churches that would be normal and common, and for the west too until the norm was changed.

With all the scandals involving athletes, celebrities, and politicians (and the people we know, too) it seems that there isn’t quite enough “Catholic guilt” going around.

I have no comment.

Are there sacraments that you think the person should know about before taking part in? If not First Communion and Confession, why not?

Confession, most certainly, we all should be able to make an examination of conscience… it would be nice if the athletes, celebrities, and politicians would make it a regular habit… but not necessary for first reception of communion or confirmation. Even a person of very limited mental capacity of any age will benefit by regular reception of the Holy Eucharist.

Catechesis is a lifelong endeavor. It need not be linked to the initiatory sacraments.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Catechesis is a lifelong endeavor. It need not be linked to the initiatory sacraments.

I don’t see any evidence that catechesis is linked to the initiatory sacraments for my own children. My middle daughter received them all in RCIA, and my youngest daughter received infant baptism. Both are being catechized, and the sacraments are not driving the catechesis. Just because my 13-yo already has been confirmed, she has not stopped being catechized on the meaning of confirmation with the other children who will receive confirmation at 15.

But there are parents with children in public school who drop their children from religious education programs after second grade, that is true.

 

[Musician]

To the OP:
This class will be counter-productive for your family. Please find another parish that meets your family’s needs. Your faith depends on it.
I’ll pray for you!

 

[PaulDupre]

So, a 6 year old is considered an infant?

In Christ,
Andrew

Yes, as a 6 year-old is called an infant in law.