RCIA problems... Help!

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What you said before your edit really made me think. Now I’m concerned that if I go to the other perish, some people could be led astray. What are your thoughts on this. If I switch to the other perish, should I tell people there why I’m leaving?
I don’t know. I would suggest keep praying. It’s probably a good idea to talk to the others in the group about why you are concerned. The fundamentals of the faith are not something that should be approached as an opportunity to speculate on personal, unorthodox interpretations of scripture. If you wanted to do that you could always join a Protestant cult. You are preparing for baptism, first communion, and confirmation all at the same time. How terrible to receive those sacraments without solid theology.

More than likely, there are some who are in RCIA because they are drawn to Christ’s Church, and who will be very open to your concerns. There may be others who think RCIA is a detail to check off the list before they marry their nominally Catholic husband, and less significant than their wedding registry. Those people probably won’t care.
 
The fundamentals of the faith are not something that should be approached as an opportunity to speculate on personal, unorthodox interpretations of scripture. If you wanted to do that you could always join a Protestant cult.
Yeah, I know what you mean! Teachings about the faith shouldn’t be taken lightly in RCIA!

Since I’m hearing that the majority of perishes in Louisville are like this, I wonder if either our current bishop, or our former bishop, has anything to do with it. I can tell you right now that there are priests in this city who believe in evolution, and admit it freely, so there’s no telling what other heracies are going on around here. I think that Darwinian evolutionism is probably a big part of the problem in most of our perishes.
 
… I can tell you right now that there are priests in this city who believe in evolution, and admit it freely, so there’s no telling what other heracies are going on around here. I think that Darwinian evolutionism is probably a big part of the problem in most of our perishes.
Josh,

“Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. **It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, **under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul. Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God” (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are.

The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses *figurative *language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390). "
catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp

Believing in many aspects of evolution is not heresy - evolutionism is but to believe in evolution does not imply that one is an evolutionist per se.

As to Adam and Eve, the above quote comes from the Catechism of the Catholic church.

Heresy: the obstinate denial after Baptism of a truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith.

I’m not seeing any heresy here, Josh. Hope this helps clarify some of the teachings that you have received.

God bless you on your faith journey:getholy:
 
Hey, Tobinator,

A surface reading of the Catechism could lead to the false interpretation that we don’t all descend from Adam and Eve. Let’s hope that’s what your teacher did. 😦

However, #375 *clearly *calls Adam and Eve “our first parents.”

A footnote to that paragraph refers to the Council of Trent, where the section on Original Sin refers to Adam as “the first man.”

Having said that, the Church has not taught definitively on evolution. In other words, we are free to believe, that God used evolution to create Adam and Eve, or that He made them as described in Genesis, or something in between.

*The above is about what the Church teaches. Please, nobody hijack this into a debate on evolution. There are plenty of threads about that already. *

God bless us all,

Ruthie

P.S. Tobinator, the green version of the Catechism has a great index. Maybe you should take that to class with you, if you decide to stay with that parish. God bless you, and “don’t take no wooden nickels.”
 
Thanks Ruthie. What was tought about Adam and Eve in my class, whether it was heracy or not, was incorrect, because they tried to teach us that the Church officially teaches that the story of Adam and Eve was an aligory, and that we evolved, but God put a soul into us. I see now, that our teachers took the Catechism way out of context. Regardless, it still doesn’t sit right with me, and that’s why I’m switching perishes. Whether it was heracy or not, it completely contradicted my beliefs, and the way they tought it was misrepresentative of what the Church teaches. I don’t know if they’re just misinformed, or if they’re deliberately distorting the truth.
 
Hi Tbolt100T,

This is one of the classes I teach at RCIA this is from my lesson plan I have skipped a few things but this is basically what I tell the class:

Have you ever been told that Adam and Eve is a myth? It’s just a story? I’ve been told that by Catholics if fact my own dear brother. Ahh but what does the Church teach about Adam & Eve?

**CCC 375:**The Church, interpreting the symbolism of biblical language in an authentic way, in the light of the New Testament and Tradition, teaches that our first parents, Adam and Eve, were constituted in an original “state of holiness and justice”.250 This grace of original holiness was “to share in. . .divine life”.251

**CCC 404 **How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.293 By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin,

I don’t know about you but how can a myth commit a personal sin?

So what the author is trying to convey in the meaning of the two chapters Geneses is that man is the highest in order of all of Gods creations. He is not conveying a time line or a scientific thesis.

So if Adam and Eve did not exist that would really play havoc with the doctrine of original sin. I’m mean why even get baptized? So the Catholic Church teaches yes Adam & Eve did exist. If anyone tells you that Adam & Eve are myths or that the first eleven chapters of Geneses are myths ask them to show you the Magisterial Document. I guarantee they cannot come up with one. Now they can come with some dissenting theologians documents but not from the Holy See itself.

So Tbolt100T my advice is the next time they tell you some wild stuff ask them which Magisterial document their getting it from?
 
Hi Stan. Thanks for the info out of the Catechism! Yes, they did tell me that everything in Genesis up to, but not including Abraham, was either an aligory, or that they weren’t sure if people like Noah existed. . I don’t have to worry about hearing their garbage any more though, becauseI told my sponsor today that I was switching to St. Martin’s. I also told him, that since my new RCIA meets at the same time on the same day as the old one, to leave a message from me to everyone in the class, including the instructor. In the message, I strongly recommended that everyone get the Catechism out, and study it.

I’m seriously considering taking my recordings to the bishop, just to let him determine whether any abuses happened. I’m really concerned that some people in the classes at that perish may be led astray, or that they may start doubting their faith because of the wild things being tought there.
 
and it’s heresy, not heracy.

Look, fact is, the majority of RCIA groups are wacko. Maybe 20% actually do what Rome wants them to do. Your diocese is not known as an exceptionally strong one, you may have problems finding anything better.

My advice is to stay in the one you are in for now, bring anything questionable here and put it in the “ask an apologist” forum to get a correct answer. It’s up to you whether you confront the teachers if they are teaching something wrong, I suggest not doing it. You’re just not ready yet. I advise you to just find the correct answers, keep them to yourself for now.

A few years from now, if you keep up your studies, you might be ready to go head-to-head with a heretical teacher. For now, just carry through on your desire to be confirmed.

Good luck.
 
i ‘‘think’’ that would be my advice too. You said in the past that changing parishes has caused you problems. Might not the same thing happen again? Further delaying your reception into the Church. Mind you, Im speaking as someone not in RCIA yet, so what do I know 🤷
 
i ‘‘think’’ that would be my advice too. You said in the past that changing parishes has caused you problems. Might not the same thing happen again? Further delaying your reception into the Church. Mind you, Im speaking as someone not in RCIA yet, so what do I know 🤷
When I changed parishes in the past, I didn’t know many of the things that I know now. Because of the extremely liberal parish I was at six or seven years ago, I didn’t even know that Tradition has just as much authority as Scripture. That came as a huge shock to me when I switched to the traditional parish, and I couldn’t accept that then. Now however, things are different, because I’ve done quite a bit of online research about what the Church believes, and why they believe it, and I already accept a lot of it, and I have an open mind about the rest. Also, we’re not near as far along in the RCIA process as we were when I switched parishes last time, soI haven’t really missed that much.

BTW, sorry for the bad spelling errors. It comes from being visually impaired, and hearing my screen reader say words rather than actually reading them. I’ll try to be more careful.
 
Look, fact is, the majority of RCIA groups are wacko. Maybe 20% actually do what Rome wants them to do. Your diocese is not known as an exceptionally strong one, you may have problems finding anything better.

My advice is to stay in the one you are in for now, bring anything questionable here and put it in the “ask an apologist” forum to get a correct answer. It’s up to you whether you confront the teachers if they are teaching something wrong, I suggest not doing it. You’re just not ready yet. I advise you to just find the correct answers, keep them to yourself for now.

A few years from now, if you keep up your studies, you might be ready to go head-to-head with a heretical teacher. For now, just carry through on your desire to be confirmed.

Good luck.
Is there anything that can be done about RCIA as a whole, to make it better? Why are most RCIA groups so out of line with what the Church teaches? The only thing that I know of, that I can do now, is pray.

I’m very thankful that I’ve found an orthodox parish to go to, and my first class there is this coming Tuesday.
 
Let’s not spend quite so much time correcting the OP’s spelling and maybe a bit more addressing a very real problem.

I agree with whoever said that you need to pray for guidance. As I’ve stated, our RCIA program seemed more concerned with Bush-bashing and global warming than solid catechism teachings.

And yet I know now that this was the parish for me. The priest who literally dragged us into the program (with a smile, of course) was wonderful. And where else are we more needed than among the heathens? 😉
 
Is there anything that can be done about RCIA as a whole, to make it better? Why are most RCIA groups so out of line with what the Church teaches? The only thing that I know of, that I can do now, is pray.

I’m very thankful that I’ve found an orthodox parish to go to, and my first class there is this coming Tuesday.
Yes, join them. After you are confirmed and become a full member of the Church, join the RCIA program. Nothing better than listening to a convert talk about Catholicism.

I am a new RCIA coordinator and was expecting similar attitudes in our program. I went into the classes with the gloves on, (so to speak), ready for a fight. I figure, if you don’t like what I’m saying, fire me. Much to my surprise, it wasn’t like that at all. The rest of the team seemed orthodox. In fact, because of this forum and Catholic Answers in general, the head coordinator, an IHM sister, was racking her brains with some of the stuff I was bringing up. I made her go back to her formal educational days. (This is largely due to what I’ve learned from Catholic Answers)

I think the only way to change situations is to join them and shape them from inside. Be strong. We aren’t called to be victorious, just faithful.
 
Wow, I had no idea how lucky I was! I converted to Catholicism from the Episcopal Church. Prior to that, I was an atheist. I moved to the Catholic Church because I felt that the American Episcopal Church was making decisions that were not in line with the world wide Anglican Communion.
My RCIA teacher was wonderful. We followed the catechism and the bible. If someone in class had a question, he referred to the catechism and instructed us on what the church taught regarding that point.
It sounds like, and please excuse my naivete, there are people trying to expound their own political views instead of instructing on what the church teaches. That’s unfortunate. I consider myself fairly liberal, but I lead my life according to the teachings of the Church. If I couldn’t do that, I wouldn’t have become Catholic.
Continue to seek and continue praying. Your questions will be answered.
 
Well, I went to my first RCIA class at St. Martin’s yesterday, and it was great! It was so refreshing to hear the teacher talking about grace, original sin, Adam and Eve, and Purgatory! On more than one occasion, there were quotes from specific paragraphs of the Catechism.
 
Is there anything that can be done about RCIA as a whole, to make it better? Why are most RCIA groups so out of line with what the Church teaches? The only thing that I know of, that I can do now, is pray.

I’m very thankful that I’ve found an orthodox parish to go to, and my first class there is this coming Tuesday.
I’m only this far, but wanted to address this. I am currently in RCIA too. Our parish has had a very regimented approach to RCIA in the past. There were handouts with text from the CCC and scripture. The topics were fixed with little room for additional discussion. However, those who volunteered to led the discussions were very comfortable with the material and the process was smooth for catechists and candidates.

It appears though that our parish has been behind in implementing the Papal directive that RCIA be less regimented. Our priest and RCIA director said that the official requirement to modify was issues about two years ago, though we are not the only ones slow to change. So, my RCIA experience has been adjusted. As such, I have been told it may be a bit rough around the edges as everyone adjusts to the upated requirements.

I am okay with that as I understand the reasoning. The idea is that conversation at RCIA should evolve naturally from a discussion on the weekly scriptures, rather than follow a “How-to” approach that really doesn’t delve very deepy into a person’s faith. There is no specific requirement to read the CCC, though RCIA discussion will naturally reference it and many other relevant resources.

I do understand your desire to focus on the CCC. I just got my new copy in the mail yesterday, along with a copy of the compendium, and the American Catechism! 😃 I am also a person who carries my Bible and a traditional missal with me to Mass each week. However, I know that faith isn’t something that necessarily proceeds from reading and committing to memory certain texts. And, RCIA isn’t just about becoming Catholic, it’s about being Catholic. I think the church wanted to get away from the idea that the CCC is a textbook for confirmands, and back to the idea that it is a statement of doctrine for all Catholics.

I think we could probably all agree that it is necessary for us to reflect on the weekly scriptures, just as we will after we are confirmed. The weekly scriptures can be discussed in a wide variety of ways that will allow RCIA leaders to offer wisdom from many resources that contribute to the full revelation of God and the Church, and apply that knowledge to a great many current topics of interest to those in the group. Surely, politics will come up, parenting, ethics in work, the value of prayer, and many others are things onto which the weekly scriptures can shed light.

While I would agree that evolution is probably outside the norm, it isn’t unreasonable to think it may be relevant. There are many public schools forming policy now on the specifcs of what will be taught. Many Christians find themselves having questions about what they want to be taught and what the Church and Christ want. And, as someone else said, try to give your group leaders the benefit of the doubt. Abuses is an awfully harsh word. If anything, I think it’s much more likely that as laypeople, they might simply be mistaken in the instances in which they have misrepresented doctrine. Take it to them and ask, and do give your priest the benefit of the doubt by discussing it with him before going to the bishop. Surely, he would appreciate your trust in him to look into the matter or to at least be aware of it before getting a call from the bishop.

Also, I might suggest that you pray over this again. Even if ultimately, you choose to become a member of one of the downtown parishes, you may be surprised at the way the perspective in this other parish makes you think and consider more carefully things which may confront you in life. That experience could end up being something very valuable for you.

I wish you the best in this.

P.S. I type a lot when I get rolling. Sorry. 😊
 
Is there anything that can be done about RCIA as a whole, to make it better? Why are most RCIA groups so out of line with what the Church teaches? The only thing that I know of, that I can do now, is pray.

I’m very thankful that I’ve found an orthodox parish to go to, and my first class there is this coming Tuesday.
I don’t know that “most” RCIA groups are unorthodox, but I acknowledge that many are. I wouldn’t condemn the RCIA process at all – but I wish parishes and dioceses would provide better training, resources, funding, and supervision.

Realize that most RCIA leaders are unpaid volunteers and must ration out their mental, physical and emotional energy to their families, jobs, self-improvement, as well as to their parish ministry. I think that sometimes a parish is so desperate for volunteers it will take anyone without first discerning if they’re truly qualified or able. Some parishes cannot even afford to provide any training for their RCIA volunteers.

In my case, I wanted to “help” with RCIA. But I lead a weekly group, and my begging for a team was to no avail. I love doing it, but wish it were more than me. By the grace of God, who has filled me with an intense love for Him and for the Church, and with an intense desire to know more, these past few years, I believe that what I offer is orthodox and well-balanced. But I do so very imperfectly. Preparing for each session takes a lot of energy, as does giving support to the participants personally, in-between sessions. Sometimes I’m so tired that after a session I’ll beat up on myself for explaining something poorly or for mis-speaking (hopefully not doctrinally). It’s not intentional, though I pray God forgives me. It has been up to me to learn more on my own. I use the Bible with the participants, and for my preparation, the Catechism, and I’m blessed to have found some good resources, especially from the Association for Catechumenal Ministry. It hurts when I hear stories about what some RCIA participants learn – or rather, mis-learn – in neighboring parishes.

So yes, please keep praying for all who are considering or seeking to be received into the Catholic Church, for all those working with them, and for their pastors and parishes. Please consider sponsoring someone for the next cycle, and becoming involved as a catechist in the future.
 
It appears though that our parish has been behind in implementing the Papal directive that RCIA be less regimented. Our priest and RCIA director said that the official requirement to modify was issues about two years ago, though we are not the only ones slow to change.
Please provide a link for this directive - I’ve tried google and came up empty handed.
 
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