RCIA whining

[Chrish1975]

So I had my first talk with the RCIA director yesterday. I don’t so far have any major issues, just…the program seems so stupid!

(1) We’re using the YouCat book as the primary text. I mean, it’s a nice little book and all, but it’s still a kid’s catechism. I read through it already, it’s got a lot of basic points but doesn’t really do any work to explain them.

(2) The director seems to assume that people coming in had absolutely no grasp of the sacraments or what was going on. I find this odd - why would I start RCIA if I didn’t know the theology already?

(3) The few times I did try to ask a question, I got the baby “well we think baptism is very important” type of answers. I know it’s important, that’s why I was asking!

I know I have to go through it, but…ugh. I’d like somewhere to go where I can get real answers, not stuff that’s suitable for 12 year old children.

The best thing to do is to read a history book on the Church. I returned to the Church after a long absence since child hood and I learned a lot by reading books about the sacraments and the canon laws. My best source for good books was a librarian at the Catholic school in town. HTH.

 

[iloveangels]

The best thing to do is to read a history book on the Church. I returned to the Church after a long absence since child hood and I learned a lot by reading books about the sacraments and the canon laws. My best source for good books was a librarian at the Catholic school in town. HTH.

Yes, but returning to Catholicism is different than coming in for the first time. Did you attend “Coming Home” sessions or RCIA sessions when you came back?

A Catholic school library could actually be a good idea if you have a Catholic high school or college in town, and don’t want to purchase the books for yourself.

 

[maltmom]

Then when I talked to them they should have said that instead of telling me they’ll work something out and then not doing anything. What am I supposed to do, drop out of school and lose my job because they have to put the classes on one night I can’t do?

Please contact another church. There is probably another one with RCIA on a different night. They may have a program more suited to your particular situation.

God Bless!

 

[iloveangels]

Then when I talked to them they should have said that instead of telling me they’ll work something out and then not doing anything. What am I supposed to do, drop out of school and lose my job because they have to put the classes on one night I can’t do?

DarkLight,
You really do have a couple of choices. You can:
a) work on re-arranging your schedule, or if that’s not possible,
b) contact another parish and get into their RCIA program on a different night.
c) or wait til next year when you can put whatever it takes to do this, first.

 

[DarkLight]

DarkLight,
You really do have a couple of choices. You can:
a) work on re-arranging your schedule, or if that’s not possible,
b) contact another parish and get into their RCIA program on a different night.
c) or wait til next year when you can put whatever it takes to do this, first.

So then if RCIA is absolutely mandatory, why would our priest and the RCIA coordinator both tell me that something can be worked out instead of sending me to a different parish? I’ve been told that it won’t be an issue, that they’d work it out.

You can’t keep changing what you say - you’ve been telling me that I was supposed to talk to the RCIA coordinator and the priest, but now that I’m doing what they told me I should go do something else? It really is starting to sound to me like no matter what I do it’s going to be wrong. Suppose that’s the peril of the internet.

 

[iloveangels]

So then if RCIA is absolutely mandatory, why would our priest and the RCIA coordinator both tell me that something can be worked out instead of sending me to a different parish? I’ve been told that it won’t be an issue, that they’d work it out.

You can’t keep changing what you say - you’ve been telling me that I was supposed to talk to the RCIA coordinator and the priest, but now that I’m doing what they told me I should go do something else? It really is starting to sound to me like no matter what I do it’s going to be wrong. Suppose that’s the peril of the internet.

What I don’t get is why you want to come on here and argue about all this. Either the situation is settled or it isn’t.

1. If it’s settled, then what’s the beef?
2. And if it isn’t, and you feel the situation isn’t being addressed, then we’re not the ones to fix it for you. In that case, you have a problem you have to solve and no one here is going to be able to do it for you. We can only suggest options and we’ve done that.

 

[DarkLight]

What I don’t get is why you want to come on here and argue about all this. Either the situation is settled or it isn’t.
If it’s settled, then what’s the beef?
And if it isn’t, then we’re not the ones to fix it for you. In that case, you have a problem you have to solve and no one here is going to be able to do it for you. We can only suggest alternatives and we’ve done that.

I wasn’t coming to the internet to ask a bunch of strangers to fix a problem for me. I came on here to complain a bit about a boring program and maybe get a little bit of advice on what possible alternatives there were for learning and communicating with the director. Since starting this thread, I’ve had my words picked apart for every possible little detail and had people assume the worst and attack any choice I make. Yes, I defended myself against unfair assumptions and accusations.

Incidentally, this is why I don’t want to be too involved right away sharing with a bunch of people I don’t know. Because I’ve found in the past that no matter what you do, if you don’t fit the exact model people have, it’s going to be wrong. I don’t particularly trust Christians to be helpful to following God.

For a Catholic forum, I have to say I’m astounded at the lack of charity displayed. The largely atheistic gamers I’ve worked with and shared with do a better job of supporting me than people here do.

 

[iloveangels]

I wasn’t coming to the internet to ask a bunch of strangers to fix a problem for me. I came on here to complain a bit about a boring program and maybe get a little bit of advice on what possible alternatives there were for learning and communicating with the director. Since starting this thread, I’ve had my words picked apart for every possible little detail and had people assume the worst and attack any choice I make. Yes, I defended myself against unfair assumptions and accusations.

Incidentally, this is why I don’t want to be too involved right away sharing with a bunch of people I don’t know. Because I’ve found in the past that no matter what you do, if you don’t fit the exact model people have, it’s going to be wrong. I don’t particularly trust Christians to be helpful to following God.

For a Catholic forum, I have to say I’m astounded at the lack of charity displayed. The largely atheistic gamers I’ve worked with and shared with do a better job of supporting me than people here do.

Oh, yes, back to this. This is the other issue if I remember correctly, in addition to the scheduling thing we’ve been talking about in the past few posts.

The only thing you can do is what everybody else does. Get yourself into an RCIA class that’s on a night that you can actually attend, and see if you like it and can do it. You’re going to have to be open-minded about what the Church is vs. what you might think it is. That’s the only way you’re ever going to know if this is what you really want.

 

[jmcrae]

Sorry, I should have said that the RCIA classes aren’t required now and never have been. There has always been the possibility of private instruction.

–Jen

That’s quite true. Knowledge isn’t grace, but knowledge builds upon wisdom, which does impart grace - so the classes can be valuable, even though, certainly, they are not required. The Rites are required, though - and it’s important to be spiritually, emotionally, and mentally prepared for them - which is what the meetings are supposed to be about. And it’s good for people to know the facts about the faith as well - things like, when we are supposed to fast, what fasting means to Catholics (how it’s different from fasting for Ramadan, and different again from fasting for surgery, for example) and when the Holy Days of Obligation are, and things of that nature, as well as something of the content of the Scriptures, what options are available for various forms of prayer, a certain amount of history, and that sort of thing.

 

[iloveangels]

That’s quite true. Knowledge isn’t grace, but knowledge builds upon wisdom, which does impart grace - so the classes can be valuable, even though, certainly, they are not required. The Rites are required, though - and it’s important to be spiritually, emotionally, and mentally prepared for them - which is what the meetings are supposed to be about. And it’s good for people to know the facts about the faith as well - things like, when we are supposed to fast, what fasting means to Catholics (how it’s different from fasting for Ramadan, and different again from fasting for surgery, for example) and when the Holy Days of Obligation are, and things of that nature, as well as something of the content of the Scriptures, what options are available for various forms of prayer, a certain amount of history, and that sort of thing.

All this is very true.

The thing is that in the particular parish that we’re talking about, these decisions about method and readiness in DarkLight’s particular case are going to need to be addressed by the RCIA director and the priest involved, if she is going to do this over the winter and into spring. Not us, and not DarkLight, for herself, without the help of the director and the priest. As I said before, you can’t bring yourself into the Catholic church all by yourself, for yourself. That’s not how it works.

Now, none of us are there and we can’t tell what’s going on really. I’m not sure from the discussion who all has said what, how everyone involved in the situation regards the situation and so on. I’m really not sure what’s going on because this is the internet and this is only a forum.

But if DarkLight thinks the necessary issues are not being addressed, then she should visit another parish where she can participate more fully, and get them addressed, so that she can make plans for the winter season, going into Easter, if that’s what she decides to do.

This is not really all that difficult.

 

[jmcrae]

That’s my point - I can’t actually make the classes, so I seem to be getting stuck with vague bits of “here’s some kids literature we’ll talk sometime but not really because no one will contact you or return your calls.” But last time there were only 5 people brought in at easter, so I can’t imagine it will be huge this time around.

Perhaps she also has a full time job and classes that she has to attend, and the night she leads the RCIA is really her only free evening. Most of the time, this work is done by volunteers, and most volunteers don’t have a whole lot of time on their hands - they have to feed their families the same as everyone else, so the volunteer work often gets put to the bottom of the pile.

That aside, have you actually asked the priest whether there is an alternate time that you can come in, on a regular basis, to discuss with him what you are learning in the books they’ve given you to read, to update him on your progress, and to ask him for further material to work with?

 

[iloveangels]

Perhaps she also has a full time job and classes that she has to attend, and the night she leads the RCIA is really her only free evening. Most of the time, this work is done by volunteers, and most volunteers don’t have a whole lot of time on their hands - they have to feed their families the same as everyone else, so the volunteer work often gets put to the bottom of the pile.

That aside, have you actually asked the priest whether there is an alternate time that you can come in, on a regular basis, to discuss with him what you are learning in the books they’ve given you to read, to update him on your progress, and to ask him for further material to work with?

This is a good idea too. Have you called the parish offices and met with the priest? Maybe he can fill you in on what’s going on, DarkLight.

 

[Regina_Love]

Our Priest has over 10,000 families to care for, and there is always a shortage of volunteers. They can easily become overwhelmed with the demands/needs of parish life. Please be kind in dealing with those willing to volunteer & do the work.

 

[nickybr38]

I’ll be honest - that’s part of what I evaluate when I’m looking at readiness for RCIA candidates. If something else is more important than being at the RCIA class, then maybe the person isn’t quite ready to take on the level of commitment that is required of Catholics in good standing with the Church.

As our Bishop pointed out to us, we already have enough half-hearted Catholics in the Church. Our job in RCIA is to develop committed Catholics who are willing to give 100% of themselves to the Church. So if there is something more important to you than showing up for RCIA, that’s a red flag that tells us that you don’t see your becoming Catholic as being very important to your life.

This is interesting. All the people who converted with me no longer attend Mass.

Guess our RCIA class didn’t have the same concern… but in my area all the parishes are kind of… in trouble. So it’s probably a symptom of a much larger problem. I certainly wish the people I see on this forum were in the class I took for RCIA. I probably would have gotten a lot more out of the process.

Ah well. What’s done is done. Dark Light → I do agree that RCIA can’t be TOO indepth theologically. My viewpoint has been, from the start, that RCIA should NOT include those who are converting from Protestantism. I know this isn’t a popular viewpoint but mixing those who have spent their years loving Christ and studying His word with those who know very little about Christianity just doesn’t work. Either one ends up not being challenged at all (and thus there’s no room to correct any misconceptions they might have) or the other is COMPLETELY overwhelmed.

Now, I understand that you’re not a convert from Christianity but it sounds like you have been studying independently. I can’t help but think a personal one on one study would work best for you instead of RCIA classes. At least then they could p(name removed by moderator)oint your specific needs and smooth out the areas you need to smooth out to commit to the Church.

RCIA is NOT one size fit all. I really believe this.

 

[CB_Catholic]

This is interesting. All the people who converted with me no longer attend Mass.

Guess our RCIA class didn’t have the same concern… but in my area all the parishes are kind of… in trouble. So it’s probably a symptom of a much larger problem. I certainly wish the people I see on this forum were in the class I took for RCIA. I probably would have gotten a lot more out of the process.

Ah well. What’s done is done. Dark Light → I do agree that RCIA can’t be TOO indepth theologically. My viewpoint has been, from the start, that RCIA should NOT include those who are converting from Protestantism. I know this isn’t a popular viewpoint but mixing those who have spent their years loving Christ and studying His word with those who know very little about Christianity just doesn’t work. Either one ends up not being challenged at all (and thus there’s no room to correct any misconceptions they might have) or the other is COMPLETELY overwhelmed.

Now, I understand that you’re not a convert from Christianity but it sounds like you have been studying independently. I can’t help but think a personal one on one study would work best for you instead of RCIA classes. At least then they could p(name removed by moderator)oint your specific needs and smooth out the areas you need to smooth out to commit to the Church.

RCIA is NOT one size fit all. I really believe this.

No RCIA is not one size fits all, but most parishes do not have the resources and personnel to meet all of the individual needs. That is just the way it is, and most do the best they can and are very dedicated.

Our class this year consists of a Mormon, a JW, a couple of people with no religious background, some faith-filled Protestants who are well-educated but know nothing about such things as our Sacramental system, the Nicene Creed, Marian Dogma, etc. and a couple of Catholics who haven’t been to church in years and now want to come back and complete their Sacraments of Initiation. Out of 12 people, 6 are unbaptized. Not one single one of these people is being flippant, and they all are in different places spiritually. But they are willing to commit to this and sit through 7 months of weekly sessions even if they are not all on the same page. They want to be Catholic, and that is the bottom line.

I think they deserve a lot of credit, a little more respect, and also our prayers.

 

[nickybr38]

No RCIA is not one size fits all, but most parishes do not have the resources and personnel to meet all of the individual needs. That is just the way it is, and most do the best they can and are very dedicated.

Our class this year consists of a Mormon, a JW, a couple of people with no religious background, some faith-filled Protestants who are well-educated but know nothing about such things as our Sacramental system, the Nicene Creed, Marian Dogma, etc. and a couple of Catholics who haven’t been to church in years and now want to come back and complete their Sacraments of Initiation. Out of 12 people, 6 are unbaptized. Not one single one of these people is being flippant, and they all are in different places spiritually. But they are willing to commit to this and sit through 7 months of weekly sessions even if they are not all on the same page. They want to be Catholic, and that is the bottom line.

I think they deserve a lot of credit, a little more respect, and also our prayers.

Oh, I agree. It takes a tremendous amount of humility to sit in on 7 months of classes that may not meet your specific needs. Humility and patience.

 

[CalCatholic]

Oh, I agree. It takes a tremendous amount of humility to sit in on 7 months of classes that may not meet your specific needs. Humility and patience.

I agree, that is part of the RCIA process; learning humility and patience! Most RCIA programs don’t have enough volunteers, I should know, I am currently the only person volunteering in our RCIA program!

 

[DarkLight]

So I’ve been mulling this over some more, thinking about some issues…I think I’m getting a better idea of what my concerns are.

I come from a background that I would characterize as spiritually abusive. Many things were presented as “just obvious” that are disputed within or even in disagreement with the Catholic church teaching. Many of these are not things that your average person might think of. For example, we were told that the Bible clearly teaches that God is male. This isn’t something I’ve found addressed much outside because it just doesn’t even occur to people. I was homeschooled with little contact outside of that local religious community. We were taught to not form friendships with people that were “unsaved”, which was most of the rest of the world, because they would corrupt us with lies from Satan.

I went through abuse that was supported by the religion…I’ve mentioned some of this before in this thread. I was never suited to the sorts of things that were expected of women. When I had to deal with a violent boyfriend, I was basically told to be more modest and submissive so he would not be tempted.

I still carry some PTSD reactions. These can affect religious instruction, particularly if certain issues are not carefully handled. I’ve gone away from modesty discussions in tears before, because of the reminder of being blamed for another’s actions based on my putative “immodesty.” Some of the triggers are a little more off the wall, things you wouldn’t expect. It’s particularly harsh because I come from the opposite extreme of what most people expect those coming into RCIA to come from. It’s so easy for me to mishear messages, hearing them in light of my own background rather than the one people are expecting.

I do want teaching. I just worry that I don’t have anywhere that will address the issues I’m dealing with.

 

[enbell]

DK,
First, may offer my sympathies for the abuse you suffered in your past… After reading through these replies to your original post, the PTSD you experience helps shed light on your reactions. I believe there is room for you to open your mind in this situation. You do seem a bit angry though. And while you explained the origin of your emotional response to this situation I think your current mindset of being annoyed and frustrated is already (and will continue to) interfere with the RCIA process. One should be excited and curious, and maybe overwhelmed at this time - but I would certainly hope not angry. I believe you have every reason to feel the way you do, but I wonder if some of these major questions and issues should be addressed in a one on one setting with your priest or a spiritual advisor. Perhaps this scheduling issue is a bit of a blessing in disguise. Maybe you spend more time this year searching the large body of religious materials for the answers to your deep questions. By this time next year, you might be in a more peaceful state of mind and the class schedule might be more conducive to your work schedule. My outsider’s opinion is that there are many signs indicating that you are not full ready for this next step. I truly believe you are entirely eager, but there are stumbling blocks in your way you need to address. While the priest said he would accommodate you absence, to me you would be missing out on a vital aspect of the conversion process. Whatever you decide, best of luck! You are in my prayers, Erin

 

[DarkLight]

Eh, I sort of figure that there’s never going to be a “perfect time.” Grad school has a tendency to occupy evenings - most semesters I’ve been out two nights a week.

As far as the classes themselves - I’m frustrated and sort of wary, but not particularly angry. The anger in this thread was directed at the people who felt free to make unwarranted accusations based on assumptions about my posts. This sort of thing is why I’m wary. I ended up having to leave my home church for my own sanity, because people found out a few facts, made a bunch of assumptions, and labelled me as an evil person because I couldn’t disprove their assumptions and wouldn’t show remorse for the sins they had imagined I committed. I mean that bit about my own sanity literally - I was having panic attacks every Sunday.

I trust God’s revelation; I trust that he has given us the sacraments. I don’t entirely trust people. Churches can hide bullies; evil can cloak itself in pious language. Too often religion breeds fear and defensiveness, without regard to whether that which is different is actually evil.