RCIA without the rites?

[Student09]

It is participating in the Liturgical Rite of Accrptance into the Order of Catechumens, that changes your canonical status within the Church from that of an Inquirer to a Catechumen, and grants you certain rights within the Church. IT’S NOT OPTIONAL!

I presume that your frustration is directed towards the priests who are skipping the rite, and not towards me and GwenL, who obviously have little to no say in the situation. When you put “It’s not optional” in all caps with an exclamation mark, it seems to suggest that we have done something wrong.

Also, perhaps you all could be a bit more charitable towards these priests who, despite being overworked, are taking the time to make sure that we receive orthodox catechesis.

 

[jmcrae]

I presume that your frustration is directed towards the priests who are skipping the rite, and not towards me and GwenL, who obviously have little to no say in the situation. When you put “It’s not optional” in all caps with an exclamation mark, it seems to suggest that we have done something wrong.

That’s what I understood him to mean.

Obviously, as an Inquirer, first of all you don’t want to be coming across as a “know it all” or teaching the priest how to do his job - not at all. So that really limits your options, with regard to what you can do about the situation.

The only thing, really, that you can do is to mention to the coordinator of the RCIA program that you are feeling disappointed, because you had been looking forward to being enrolled in the Order of Catechumens - and maybe also ask him (don’t tell him!) how this affects your canonical status in the Church. He may be surprised that you know something about that, and it may serve to undercut this pervasive notion that “well, we don’t need to bother with the Rites because the Inquirers have no idea what’s going on, anyway, and won’t miss it if we don’t do it.” This whole minimalistic “what’s the least we can get away with” combined with dumbing everything down to the lowest common denominator, gets under my skin and drives me wild - we have such a vast treasury of graces in the Catholic Church, and we are so needlessly stingy about giving them out.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I presume that your frustration is directed towards the priests who are skipping the rite, and not towards me and GwenL, who obviously have little to no say in the situation. When you put “It’s not optional” in all caps with an exclamation mark, it seems to suggest that we have done something wrong.

Also, perhaps you all could be a bit more charitable towards these priests who, despite being overworked, are taking the time to make sure that we receive orthodox catechesis.

No, it’s not directed at you, nor necessarily the priests. It is directed at those who should know better and are in charge of the RCIA, whoever that is. We have been doing RCIA for 15 to 20 years, you would think that we could get it right by now. The Rite has not really changed in that time either. If you are going to do something, you might as well do it correctly. You and GwenL and everyone else in RCIA deserve that.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Even more confusing.

Does “required” mean “mandatory?”

Pretty obviously, I’m not in control of what rites our parish is going to conduct. Rites may be “expected to be followed,” but that’s something I have no control over or even (name removed by moderator)ut into. It’s a little late to try to find a parish that does conduct the “required” rites.

Again, I’ll ask, does “required” mean that I won’t be a Catholic without these rites? By “not optional” do you mean that since I won’t be doing this rite that I won’t be validly recieved into the Catholic Church at Easter Vigil?

No you are being short-changed.

 

[fdesales]

No, it’s not directed at you, nor necessarily the priests. It is directed at those who should know better and are in charge of the RCIA, whoever that is. We have been doing RCIA for 15 to 20 years, you would think that we could get it right by now. The Rite has not really changed in that time either. If you are going to do something, you might as well do it correctly. You and GwenL and everyone else in RCIA deserve that.

Brother,

“WE” have not been doing RCIA for 15-20 years. No matter how long Rome has implemented the RCIA, the individual coordinator has to learn for himself the rites and rituals. As you no doubt are aware, there is not an arm of the Church that teaches people how to do RCIA. I am a lay volunteer COMPLETELY self taught. I tried to get direction from my diocese on syllabus and such (“hey, Rome, what do you want me to teach?”). Nothing. That is why there is so much disparity between various programs. Some are good, some are bad. Some do not include all the rites, some improperly execute them. This has NOTHING to do with how long Rome has allowed the new RCIA back. The implementation has fallen short, just as most of what has come from Vatican 2… RCIA is not “done correctly” because of mundane reasons, I guess.

I would hope that those in RCIA can PLEASE take this into account. We are not perfect and all-knowing people who have been trained by Rome and sent out with all proper knowledge of the Rites. We do the best we can with what WE learn by READING, not by some visiting RCIA guru who tells us what we are supposed to do and holds our hand for a few years to cover all contingencies… The priest are entirely overworked, so we should give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing it the “proper” way sometimes. THEY are not the best source of RCIA procedures, I usually am telling my pastor what is supposed to be done, not because I am brilliant, because that is MY ministry. He has a LOT more stuff going on and doesn’t have the time to sit down and “memorize” the books.

As to the comments of “MUST” be done (regarding the Rite of Welcome), it is a moot point once the Rite of Elect is completed, since their canonical status is now one of “elect”. “Catechumen” no longer exists… If a person were to die during the RCIA period and had not undergone the rite and were not “officially” a catechumen, I would venture to say that the priest responsible would give a Christian burial because it was the intent of the person to BE a Christian in the first place. But don’t quote me on that! Canon Law is quite flexible, subject to the judge’s interpretation (rather than precedent), so I’m thinking that for the sake of pastoral considerations, the lack of a Rite of Acceptance would not PREVENT a Christian burial.

Regards

 

[sckcd]

Considering how Catholic churches don’t variate like Protestant churches in their rules, worship, teachings, etc, I am surprised at how much RCIA varies (according to what I have read of different people’s experiences).

You’d think that the Vatican would have a step by step, thorough path set for it, so that all RCIA attendees would be getting the same stuff. And you’d also think that someone would have to be certified officially to lead the class. My RCIA is okay as far as I can tell, but since I don’t know that it’s up to snuff b/c they aren’t all the same I guess and there is no standard to judge it by I guess I get what I get.

 

[mswood]

Brother,

“WE” have not been doing RCIA for 15-20 years. No matter how long Rome has implemented the RCIA, the individual coordinator has to learn for himself the rites and rituals. As you no doubt are aware, there is not an arm of the Church that teaches people how to do RCIA. I am a lay volunteer COMPLETELY self taught. I tried to get direction from my diocese on syllabus and such (“hey, Rome, what do you want me to teach?”). Nothing. That is why there is so much disparity between various programs. Some are good, some are bad. Some do not include all the rites, some improperly execute them. This has NOTHING to do with how long Rome has allowed the new RCIA back. The implementation has fallen short, just as most of what has come from Vatican 2… RCIA is not “done correctly” because of mundane reasons, I guess.

I would hope that those in RCIA can PLEASE take this into account. We are not perfect and all-knowing people who have been trained by Rome and sent out with all proper knowledge of the Rites. We do the best we can with what WE learn by READING, not by some visiting RCIA guru who tells us what we are supposed to do and holds our hand for a few years to cover all contingencies… The priest are entirely overworked, so we should give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing it the “proper” way sometimes. THEY are not the best source of RCIA procedures, I usually am telling my pastor what is supposed to be done, not because I am brilliant, because that is MY ministry. He has a LOT more stuff going on and doesn’t have the time to sit down and “memorize” the books.

As to the comments of “MUST” be done (regarding the Rite of Welcome), it is a moot point once the Rite of Elect is completed, since their canonical status is now one of “elect”. “Catechumen” no longer exists… If a person were to die during the RCIA period and had not undergone the rite and were not “officially” a catechumen, I would venture to say that the priest responsible would give a Christian burial because it was the intent of the person to BE a Christian in the first place. But don’t quote me on that! Canon Law is quite flexible, subject to the judge’s interpretation (rather than precedent), so I’m thinking that for the sake of pastoral considerations, the lack of a Rite of Acceptance would not PREVENT a Christian burial.

Regards

While it may be true that the person leading the RCIA has not done so for 15 - 20 years I feel they should not be teaching the class if they are not aware of the rites involved. I am currently in RCIA and I knew about all the Rites before the I started the program because I researched the subject and found a book with the full text of the ALL the rites and optional rites for RCIA. So in my humble opinion there is really no reason the person leading the RCIA should not be aware of the Rites involved in the process. This is the one I ordered:

amazon.com/gp/product/0930467949/ref=ox_ya_oh_product

 

[mswood]

I didn’t mean to sound harsh in my last post, and I do appreciate anyone that is willing to volunteer their time to teach and help others find their way to the church. I am simply amazed however by the number of people it appears are teaching that do not have a basic understanding of the process and the rites that are involved.

I am thankful that I have been blessed with a wonderful RCIA program that as far as I can tell has taught nothing that goes against catholic teaching and is based on the bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church and includes all the beautiful rites of RCIA.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Brother,

“WE” have not been doing RCIA for 15-20 years. No matter how long Rome has implemented the RCIA, the individual coordinator has to learn for himself the rites and rituals. As you no doubt are aware, there is not an arm of the Church that teaches people how to do RCIA. I am a lay volunteer COMPLETELY self taught. I tried to get direction from my diocese on syllabus and such (“hey, Rome, what do you want me to teach?”). Nothing. That is why there is so much disparity between various programs. Some are good, some are bad. Some do not include all the rites, some improperly execute them. This has NOTHING to do with how long Rome has allowed the new RCIA back. The implementation has fallen short, just as most of what has come from Vatican 2… RCIA is not “done correctly” because of mundane reasons, I guess.

I would hope that those in RCIA can PLEASE take this into account. We are not perfect and all-knowing people who have been trained by Rome and sent out with all proper knowledge of the Rites. We do the best we can with what WE learn by READING, not by some visiting RCIA guru who tells us what we are supposed to do and holds our hand for a few years to cover all contingencies… The priest are entirely overworked, so we should give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing it the “proper” way sometimes. THEY are not the best source of RCIA procedures, I usually am telling my pastor what is supposed to be done, not because I am brilliant, because that is MY ministry. He has a LOT more stuff going on and doesn’t have the time to sit down and “memorize” the books.

As to the comments of “MUST” be done (regarding the Rite of Welcome), it is a moot point once the Rite of Elect is completed, since their canonical status is now one of “elect”. “Catechumen” no longer exists… If a person were to die during the RCIA period and had not undergone the rite and were not “officially” a catechumen, I would venture to say that the priest responsible would give a Christian burial because it was the intent of the person to BE a Christian in the first place. But don’t quote me on that! Canon Law is quite flexible, subject to the judge’s interpretation (rather than precedent), so I’m thinking that for the sake of pastoral considerations, the lack of a Rite of Acceptance would not PREVENT a Christian burial.

Regards

I’m a member of the North American Forum on the Catechumenate and have attended several of their week long sessions. Our diocese also has an RCIA Commission that provides 2 or 3 mini trainings every year on various aspects of RCIA for any parish member that wishes to attend.
I developed a Team training that takes three months (over the summer) to complete. It covers the entire Rite, it’s history and it’s implementation.

Catechesis is a separate topic and requires Catechist training per the requirements of the Diocese and additional training on teaching adults. This properly belongs to the parish Catechetical Commission.

The Liturgical aspect requires a different skill set and cooporation with the parish Liturgical Commission. Technically “Inquiry” belongs to the parish Evangelization Commission. So as you see it requires very wide parish involvement.

It’s not a one man (or woman) show for sure. Always remembering that the Pastor is the chief Catechist, and Liturgist in his parish and always has the final say on all matters.

 

[fdesales]

While it may be true that the person leading the RCIA has not done so for 15 - 20 years I feel they should not be teaching the class if they are not aware of the rites involved.

I am not saying that the people doing RCIA “are not aware of the rites involved”… I am saying they may not have the “mind of the Church” regarding the intent and importance of all the rites. Thus, there is a large variation in how well they are done. The level of the volunteer’s knowledge differs. The level of RCIA is dependent upon the attitudes and knowledge of the team, which is not constant.

In a perfect world, we’d have PhD’s teaching the RCIA with very saintly people as sponsors and the rites done during High Mass with incense and pomp and circumstance. The saintly and all-knowing bishop would stop by and give me HIS specific directives!!!

HA

However, we live in a wounded world in more ways than one. I believe that God uses the Church, with all of her issues, to teach people obedience, charity and humility. How can we develop these traits in a “perfect world”? What is important is to realize is that RCIA is the BEGINNING of a journey and is NOT MEANT to be a “know-all, end-all” class on things Catholic. We got 2000 years of writings to look over and assimiliate. Countless writings and opinions of Scriptural passages. And putting that all together into a cohesive package that is short and understandable to a person with (usually) a second grade level of theological knowledge is a daunting task, when done based on one’s own reading and reflection…

I am currently in RCIA and I knew about all the Rites before the I started the program because I researched the subject and found a book with the full text of the ALL the rites and optional rites for RCIA. So in my humble opinion there is really no reason the person leading the RCIA should not be aware of the Rites involved in the process.

I think you are mis-understanding my point. I am not saying that the RCIA leaders know NOTHING, but that they may not properly judge pastoral issues that come up. How to best handle someone who needs an annulment. What to do with someone who doesn’t seem very interested and misses a lot of meetings. They have not been trained to uniformly answer each question the same way. Sometimes, they forget to mention nuances of the faith. Each RCIA team stresses different teachings of the Catechism. They teach the truth as they see it, but perhaps focus on different teachings. Some are more concerned with learning in the classroom environment, others are more concerned about social justice and apostolic work. Naturally, each catechist is not a theological expert, so they WILL be stumped from time to time. And there are a number of rules and aspects of RCIA that are vague, ambiguous, or not clearly noted. Thus, RCIA will vary from place to place. I can tell you that it is quite easy to criticize, though.

Unfortunately, very few lay people WANT to get up in front of a class and teach about the inner life of the Trinity in front of a priest, my friend…

Regards

 

[fdesales]

I didn’t mean to sound harsh in my last post, and I do appreciate anyone that is willing to volunteer their time to teach and help others find their way to the church. I am simply amazed however by the number of people it appears are teaching that do not have a basic understanding of the process and the rites that are involved.

I am thankful that I have been blessed with a wonderful RCIA program that as far as I can tell has taught nothing that goes against catholic teaching and is based on the bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church and includes all the beautiful rites of RCIA.

I’d be willing to bet that most RCIA programs are legit and a good beginning for people to enter into the Church. However, we are focusing here on the shortcomings of a few RCIA classes, and I don’t think they represent the norm. I am saying that there is no uniform training program available to people running the parish RCIA. There are aids out there, but the actual contents of the teaching are up to the catechist and his abilities and knowledge.

Regards

 

[fdesales]

I’m a member of the North American Forum on the Catechumenate and have attended several of their week long sessions. Our diocese also has an RCIA Commission that provides 2 or 3 mini trainings every year on various aspects of RCIA for any parish member that wishes to attend.

They certainly can provide the tools to teach how to teach the RCIA. But not everyone has convenient access to such classes.

I developed a Team training that takes three months (over the summer) to complete. It covers the entire Rite, it’s history and it’s implementation.

Each diocese has various support available. I wrote my diocese twice and didn’t even get a response… So I did my own syllabus. My pastor was ever-grateful to escape that responsibility.

Catechesis is a separate topic and requires Catechist training per the requirements of the Diocese and additional training on teaching adults. This properly belongs to the parish Catechetical Commission.

The Liturgical aspect requires a different skill set and cooporation with the parish Liturgical Commission. Technically “Inquiry” belongs to the parish Evangelization Commission. So as you see it requires very wide parish involvement.

Per requirements of the Diocese!? Where can I find them, if there ARE any? Parish Catechetical Commission? Evangelization Commission? What’s that???

I have never heard of such commissions at the local level. Our parish doesn’t have either.

Always remembering that the Pastor is the chief Catechist, and Liturgist in his parish and always has the final say on all matters.

That is true, theoretically… Enough said. This conversation is making it clear that the Catholic Church is not quite so centralized as some think it is.

Regards

 

[jmcrae]

Considering how Catholic churches don’t variate like Protestant churches in their rules, worship, teachings, etc, I am surprised at how much RCIA varies (according to what I have read of different people’s experiences).

You’d think that the Vatican would have a step by step, thorough path set for it, so that all RCIA attendees would be getting the same stuff. And you’d also think that someone would have to be certified officially to lead the class. My RCIA is okay as far as I can tell, but since I don’t know that it’s up to snuff b/c they aren’t all the same I guess and there is no standard to judge it by I guess I get what I get.

Actually, certification is supposed to be required, but very few RCIA leaders have the time or the inclination to take the necessary training to get the certification.

 

[GwenL]

Thanks for all of your answers.

I guess I come from a pretty “black and white” world, military aviation, and often I see statements from that perspective. In that world, when something is “required,” it usually means serious injury or death if you don’t complete or if you disregard the requirement. Even if it doesn’t mean bodily harm, it certainly means that you don’t pass the step without meeting the requirement.

I’m currently a graduate student. We also have “requirements,” without which we cannot graduate. So when I saw “required” for aspects of RCIA, I naturally start thinking that we’re not gonna graduate without meeting these requirements. Thus my questions.

In my very “beginner” understanding of things Catholic, it seems to me that there are certainly some items that are “required” in this sense. Though usually it’s your soul at stake, and not just your miserable physical existence! For example, not being in a state of mortal sin when taking communion; being baptized before receiving any other sacrament; not remarrying after divorce without annulment, etc.

I guess that the RCIA rites are not “required” in any of these senses, though they are highly desired.

Also, we have a great priest who puts a lot of heart, time, and effort into teaching us well. Why he is not having us do any of the rites, I cannot know. Why there is no lay RCIA teacher, I also don’t know. I’ve read several posts here about RCIA classes taught by lay people, with no priest involvement, teaching that contraception and abortion are OK, women priests are around the corner, and so on. I think solid teaching about the Catholic faith and morals is the most important part of RCIA, and we’re getting that.

Perhaps if we had more than one priest for 2,000 families in the parish, and more energized lay involvement, we would have a perfect RCIA program. Last night we had nearly 30 candidates/catachumens/inquirers/etc (baptized and non) in our class, plus about 20 Catholics.

 

[Student09]

Also, we have a great priest who puts a lot of heart, time, and effort into teaching us well. Why he is not having us do any of the rites, I cannot know. Why there is no lay RCIA teacher, I also don’t know. I’ve read several posts here about RCIA classes taught by lay people, with no priest involvement, teaching that contraception and abortion are OK, women priests are around the corner, and so on. I think solid teaching about the Catholic faith and morals is the most important part of RCIA, and we’re getting that.
.

This is how I feel as well. I read horror stories of unorthodox RCIA classes before my class started and I was terrified of getting a teacher like that. I’m very grateful to have the class taught by a priest who is sincere and orthodox and knows what he’s talking about. I’m disappointed, but I trust that if I die before I’m baptized, God will have mercy on me even though I didn’t go through the Rite of Acceptance.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I’d be willing to bet that most RCIA programs are legit and a good beginning for people to enter into the Church. However, we are focusing here on the shortcomings of a few RCIA classes, and I don’t think they represent the norm. I am saying that there is no uniform training program available to people running the parish RCIA. There are aids out there, but the actual contents of the teaching are up to the catechist and his abilities and knowledge.

Regards

Actually there was a document (Basic Techings for Catholic Religious Education - NCCB #233-0) from the U.S. Bishops which outlined the basic content/topics ncessary. It was replaced with the National Directory for Catechesis.

 

[fdesales]

Actually there was a document (Basic Techings for Catholic Religious Education - NCCB #233-0) from the U.S. Bishops which outlined the basic content/topics ncessary. It was replaced with the National Directory for Catechesis.

Hmm, I read the NDC and it was not very helpful on practical matters… The classes you took are probably more useful. I have previously purchased some books that were much more useful to me to prepare outlines that I could use as a skeleton to teach from. Picking the subjects to teach was initially tough, but experience has taught me which are secondary. I have learned to edit and speak less. But I basically learned all of this by myself. I think most coordinators are doing the best that they can and I don’t think anyone is maliciously teaching error, although some need to go to the Catechism and teach what is found there, rather than pet teachings and agendas… From the conversation here, it seems to be that there is a general opinion that the RCIA team is “out to get them”…

This is where the priest should come to size up the legitimacy of the catechist. My experience with three separate pastors were that they would come and listen to a few of my classes, and were satisfied I wasn’t teaching heresy. Probably helped that very few wanted to do it, too! But the pastor needs to analyze what is being taught at the RCIA, I am not sure why one would allow someone to teach garbage unless he is just unaware…

Anyway, I am trying to help people to give these teachers the benefit of the doubt and that they should address major concerns in private, at least initially.

Regards

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hmm, I read the NDC and it was not very helpful on practical matters… The classes you took are probably more useful. I have previously purchased some books that were much more useful to me to prepare outlines that I could use as a skeleton to teach from. Picking the subjects to teach was initially tough, but experience has taught me which are secondary. I have learned to edit and speak less. But I basically learned all of this by myself. I think most coordinators are doing the best that they can and I don’t think anyone is maliciously teaching error, although some need to go to the Catechism and teach what is found there, rather than pet teachings and agendas… From the conversation here, it seems to be that there is a general opinion that the RCIA team is “out to get them”…

This is where the priest should come to size up the legitimacy of the catechist. My experience with three separate pastors were that they would come and listen to a few of my classes, and were satisfied I wasn’t teaching heresy. Probably helped that very few wanted to do it, too! But the pastor needs to analyze what is being taught at the RCIA, I am not sure why one would allow someone to teach garbage unless he is just unaware…

Anyway, I am trying to help people to give these teachers the benefit of the doubt and that they should address major concerns in private, at least initially.

Regards

I would never advocate questioning a Catechist or DRE in public. RCIA is truely a parish wide effort, and not a one person program, it does take a Catechumenate Team to do this right. Sometimes however it is seen as “MY” program and I’ll do it MY way. Everyone is there to serve those who are seeking.

 

[rwoehmke]

Thanks for all of your answers.

I guess I come from a pretty “black and white” world, military aviation, and often I see statements from that perspective. In that world, when something is “required,” it usually means serious injury or death if you don’t complete or if you disregard the requirement. Even if it doesn’t mean bodily harm, it certainly means that you don’t pass the step without meeting the requirement.

I’m currently a graduate student. We also have “requirements,” without which we cannot graduate. So when I saw “required” for aspects of RCIA, I naturally start thinking that we’re not gonna graduate without meeting these requirements. Thus my questions.

In my very “beginner” understanding of things Catholic, it seems to me that there are certainly some items that are “required” in this sense. Though usually it’s your soul at stake, and not just your miserable physical existence! For example, not being in a state of mortal sin when taking communion; being baptized before receiving any other sacrament; not remarrying after divorce without annulment, etc.
.

What a parish calls RCIA may vary all the way from Bro. Rich SFO’s program which is crackerjack, to some very poorly taught and virtually non-existent programs. We have a structure in the Church that may look as efficient as the military or academic endeavors, but there are often segments where giving orders and stating requirements are like moving an object by “pushing on a rope.” It is a gift of grace that Mass and the Sacraments are usually celebrated validly, but even in some instances not licitly, are still effective.

 

[GwenL]

We have a structure in the Church that may look as efficient as the military or academic endeavors, but there are often segments where giving orders and stating requirements…

I did not say that I perceived a military or academic structure in the Church, nor am I expecting or seeking same. I was responding to Br Rich’s repeated use of the descriptors “required” and “must be done” as applied to rites. He said the rites were “required” and “must be done” and I thought that meant that the rites were “required” or “must be done” in the most direct of interpretations, i.e., with penalty for failure.