RCTV statement, regarding AOD, issued.

[jam070406]

Statement from RCTV:

youtube.com/watch?v=RNiOwYtv7oQ&feature=g-u&context=G243c4deFUAAAAAAACAA

Archdiocesan canon lawyers differ on asking RealCatholicTV.com to drop ‘Catholic’ name

lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocesan-canon-lawyers-differ-on-asking-realcatholictvcom-to-drop-cath

January 9, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Canon lawyers at two American dioceses disagree over the question of jurisdiction in the case of Michael Voris and RealCatholicTV, who were recently asked by the Archdiocese of Detroit to stop using the name “Catholic” in their work.

The decision by the Detroit diocese to demand that RealCatholicTV stop calling itself “Catholic” came as a shock to fans of the website, which has become relatively well known in the pro-life and pro-family world due to Voris’ straight-talking defense of the right to life and sanctity of the family. However, some of his broadcasts bluntly holding Catholic Church leaders, including bishops, to account for failures in defending Catholic principles in these areas have also raised the ire of various clergy and diocesan staffers.
Michael Voris of RealCatholicTV

Following the announcement of its decision, the Detroit archdiocese received numerous complaints and questions from RealCatholicTV fans, prompting the diocese to issue another press release January 3rd.

Responding to the inquiries, Archdiocesan Director of Communications Ned McGrath noted that concerns about Voris had been public since 2008; however, the release did not say anything about the nature of those concerns. To date the diocese has not made any specific allegations against RealCatholicTV or its programming.

While the questions asked by most pertain to why the action was taken, the issue being discussed by canon lawyers is where jurisdiction over RealCatholicTV.com lies – with the Archdiocese of Detroit, where Michael Voris, the star of the show, lives and works, or in the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend, where the owner and financier of RealCatholicTV.com, Marc Brammer, resides.

Fr. Mark Gurtner, Judicial Vicar of the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend in Indiana spoke with LifeSiteNews, acknowledging that the diocese did know of Mr. Brammer’s enterprise of RealCatholicTV.com. When asked if the diocese had any complaints about RealCatholicTV.com, Gurner replied, “No, as far as I know there’s nothing.”

Speaking as a canon lawyer and not an official of the diocese, Gurtner also said he believes the jurisdiction of the case resides with the Indiana diocese. “It certainly seems to me that canonically Michael Voris would not be the one that this would be imposed on,” he said. “Even though he is the one that regularly appears on (the show) he, in a sense, is really just an employee of (RealCatholicTV.com).”

“It seems like if the Archdiocese of Detroit is trying to go after (Voris), that’s the wrong person to address this with, that would have to be with the owner of the website or blog,” he added.

 

[PaulinVA]

The cafeteria is open.

 

[jam070406]

The cafeteria is open.

Indeed.

Fans of RealCatholicTV have noted that there are entities in the archdiocese, such as the Jesuit University of Detroit Mercy (UDM), which bills itself as “a Catholic university,” that regularly violate Catholic teaching but have been permitted to retain their “Catholic” designation without interference from the diocese. UDM has proposed abortion agencies as career opportunities for students; had links to pro-abortion groups on its website; retained a renowned pro-abortion, pro-same-sex “marriage” nun on its Board of Trustees; held an annual event called ‘sexapalooza’ with activities such as ‘safe sex games’, sex-tac-toe; and has professors that put stickers on their office doors indicating their support for abortion.

lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocesan-canon-lawyers-differ-on-asking-realcatholictvcom-to-drop-cath

 

[Melchior_1]

Indeed.

Fans of RealCatholicTV have noted that there are entities in the archdiocese, such as the Jesuit University of Detroit Mercy (UDM), which bills itself as “a Catholic university,” that regularly violate Catholic teaching but have been permitted to retain their “Catholic” designation without interference from the diocese. UDM has proposed abortion agencies as career opportunities for students; had links to pro-abortion groups on its website; retained a renowned pro-abortion, pro-same-sex “marriage” nun on its Board of Trustees; held an annual event called ‘sexapalooza’ with activities such as ‘safe sex games’, sex-tac-toe; and has professors that put stickers on their office doors indicating their support for abortion.

lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocesan-canon-lawyers-differ-on-asking-realcatholictvcom-to-drop-cath

1. I don’t see the word “Catholic” in UDM’s title. Do they advertise themselves as being Catholic, or have the word Catholic within their title?
2. More importantly, it’s run by Jesuits and is a Jesuit school. The Jesuits are an exempt religious order (like the Dominicans), as a result the Bishop cannot interfere nor discipline those Jesuits who are involved with with school. This is something the Jesuit Order themselves need to sort out. You might want to use a different example, one which the Bishop has authority over.

Fred and Alice work in the same company. Fred reports to Phillip, who is the supervisor for the division. Alice reports to Bill. Alice sometimes works Fred in joint projects, but she drops the ball often. Is Phillip the one who should deal with Alice? He can’t, it’s Bill who does. Even though Alice is doing work FOR Phillip and working WITH Fred.

 

[jam070406]

1. I don’t see the word “Catholic” in UDM’s title. Do they advertise themselves as being Catholic, or have the word Catholic within their title?
2. More importantly, it’s run by Jesuits and is a Jesuit school. The Jesuits are an exempt religious order (like the Dominicans), as a result the Bishop cannot interfere nor discipline those Jesuits who are involved with with school. This is something the Jesuit Order themselves need to sort out. You might want to use a different example, one which the Bishop has authority over.

Fred and Alice work in the same company. Fred reports to Phillip, who is the supervisor for the division. Alice reports to Bill. Alice sometimes works Fred in joint projects, but she drops the ball often. Is Phillip the one who should deal with Alice? He can’t, it’s Bill who does. Even though Alice is doing work FOR Phillip and working WITH Fred.

1. UDM Mission Statement:

The University of Detroit Mercy, a Catholic university in the Jesuit and Mercy traditions, exists to provide excellent, student-centered, undergraduate and graduate education in an urban context. A UDM education seeks to integrate the intellectual, spiritual, ethical, and social development of our students.

udmercy.edu/mission/index.htm

1. If you read the article linked you would see it was not my example.
   But if Jesuits are exempt from canon law I will take your word for it.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

1. I don’t see the word “Catholic” in UDM’s title. Do they advertise themselves as being Catholic, or have the word Catholic within their title?
2. More importantly, it’s run by Jesuits and is a Jesuit school. The Jesuits are an exempt religious order (like the Dominicans), as a result the Bishop cannot interfere nor discipline those Jesuits who are involved with with school. This is something the Jesuit Order themselves need to sort out. You might want to use a different example, one which the Bishop has authority over.

Fred and Alice work in the same company. Fred reports to Phillip, who is the supervisor for the division. Alice reports to Bill. Alice sometimes works Fred in joint projects, but she drops the ball often. Is Phillip the one who should deal with Alice? He can’t, it’s Bill who does. Even though Alice is doing work FOR Phillip and working WITH Fred.

Joint effort of the Mercy sisters and Jesuits, so yes, it can be looked at by the bishop.

As far as I’ve ever seen, and I watch this program daily, I have never objected to anything Michael Voris has had on his show. The Archdiocese of Detroit needs prayers, is all I have to say. I’d like to express my concern to them over their actions as well.

 

[mlund]

1. I don’t see the word “Catholic” in UDM’s title. Do they advertise themselves as being Catholic, or have the word Catholic within their title?

Advertise themselves as being Catholic. St. Joseph’s Hospital in Phoenix got their “catholic” status revoked and can’t hold the Blessed Sacrament in their chapel anymore.

1. More importantly, it’s run by Jesuits and is a Jesuit school. The Jesuits are an exempt religious order (like the Dominicans), as a result the Bishop cannot interfere nor discipline those Jesuits who are involved with with school. This is something the Jesuit Order themselves need to sort out. You might want to use a different example, one which the Bishop has authority over.

Speaking as a graduate from a Jesuit high-school I think this is a recurring problem with their Society. Most of the laity and the public has no idea as to the limits of the Bishop (who is actually in charge of the Church locally) has over these magisterially isolated (but extremely public in the community) islands within his diocese. It can often lead to people believing that the Bishop’s own positions are either inauthentic or hypocritical. It’s a terrible shame, really.

• Marty Lund

 

[PaulinVA]

Is the issue more than this?

Ministries that call themselves Catholic need permission from the Bishop where they are headquartered.

RealCatholicTV has Catholic in it’s name and does not have permission from the Bishop where it is headquartered?

 

[jam070406]

Is the issue more than this?

Ministries that call themselves Catholic need permission from the Bishop where they are headquartered.

RealCatholicTV has Catholic in it’s name and does not have permission from the Bishop where it is headquartered?

It’s headquartered in the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend, in Indiana. The Bishop of that Diocese has not said they are forbidden to call themselves “Catholic”.

 

[PaulinVA]

It’s headquartered in the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend, in Indiana. The Bishop of that Diocese has not said they are forbidden to call themselves “Catholic”.

Hmm, good question.

domain registration:
Registrant:
RealCatholicTV
Marc Brammer
3002 Miami Street
South Bend, IN 46614
US

On the Website:
To contact us by mail :
22007 Woodward Ave
Ferndale MI 48220

That is an office building with TV and Radio Studio. I’ll go with Detroit.

 

[jam070406]

Hmm, good question.

domain registration:
Registrant:
RealCatholicTV
Marc Brammer
3002 Miami Street
South Bend, IN 46614
US

On the Website:
To contact us by mail :
22007 Woodward Ave
Ferndale MI 48220

That is an office building with TV and Radio Studio. I’ll go with Detroit.

Why do you think some in the AOD have such a problem with RCTV?

 

[FAB]

Statement from RCTV:

youtube.com/watch?v=RNiOwYtv7oQ&feature=g-u&context=G243c4deFUAAAAAAACAA

Archdiocesan canon lawyers differ on asking RealCatholicTV.com to drop ‘Catholic’ name

lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocesan-canon-lawyers-differ-on-asking-realcatholictvcom-to-drop-cath

January 9, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Canon lawyers at two American dioceses disagree over the question of jurisdiction in the case of Michael Voris and RealCatholicTV, who were recently asked by the Archdiocese of Detroit to stop using the name “Catholic” in their work.

The decision by the Detroit diocese to demand that RealCatholicTV stop calling itself “Catholic” came as a shock to fans of the website, which has become relatively well known in the pro-life and pro-family world due to Voris’ straight-talking defense of the right to life and sanctity of the family. However, some of his broadcasts bluntly holding Catholic Church leaders, including bishops, to account for failures in defending Catholic principles in these areas have also raised the ire of various clergy and diocesan staffers.
Michael Voris of RealCatholicTV

Following the announcement of its decision, the Detroit archdiocese received numerous complaints and questions from RealCatholicTV fans, prompting the diocese to issue another press release January 3rd.

Responding to the inquiries, Archdiocesan Director of Communications Ned McGrath noted that concerns about Voris had been public since 2008; however, the release did not say anything about the nature of those concerns. To date the diocese has not made any specific allegations against RealCatholicTV or its programming.

While the questions asked by most pertain to why the action was taken, the issue being discussed by canon lawyers is where jurisdiction over RealCatholicTV.com lies – with the Archdiocese of Detroit, where Michael Voris, the star of the show, lives and works, or in the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend, where the owner and financier of RealCatholicTV.com, Marc Brammer, resides.

Fr. Mark Gurtner, Judicial Vicar of the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend in Indiana spoke with LifeSiteNews, acknowledging that the diocese did know of Mr. Brammer’s enterprise of RealCatholicTV.com. When asked if the diocese had any complaints about RealCatholicTV.com, Gurner replied, “No, as far as I know there’s nothing.”

Speaking as a canon lawyer and not an official of the diocese, Gurtner also said he believes the jurisdiction of the case resides with the Indiana diocese. “It certainly seems to me that canonically Michael Voris would not be the one that this would be imposed on,” he said. “Even though he is the one that regularly appears on (the show) he, in a sense, is really just an employee of (RealCatholicTV.com).”

“It seems like if the Archdiocese of Detroit is trying to go after (Voris), that’s the wrong person to address this with, that would have to be with the owner of the website or blog,” he added.

Even in the statemet they are being critical of the church and defiant. Their path instead should have been one to seek to meet the conditions of the bishop and of the diocese. Populaity does not make it correct and in their action they are causing troubles and doubts within the faithful. They quote on part of the cannon, but seen to be oblivious to the part that they are to be obediant to the ordinary of the diocese who holds the teaching authority of the church.

 

[jam070406]

Even in the statemet they are being critical of the church and defiant. Their path instead should have been one to seek to meet the conditions of the bishop and of the diocese. Populaity does not make it correct and in their action they are causing troubles and doubts within the faithful. They quote on part of the cannon, but seen to be oblivious to the part that they are to be obediant to the ordinary of the diocese who holds the teaching authority of the church.

No. They were critical of the enemies of the Church attacking it from inside and outside.

 

[PaulinVA]

Why do you think some in the AOD have such a problem with RCTV?

I’m not a fan of Voris, so I’m not one to ask.

I just hate it when people who hold themselves up as orthodox Catholics nonetheless find ways to finesse themselves around Church teaching or Church law.

 

[jam070406]

I’m not a fan of Voris, so I’m not one to ask.

I just hate it when people who hold themselves up as orthodox Catholics nonetheless find ways to finesse themselves around Church teaching or Church law.

I think you are on to something…“orthodox Catholics”.

 

[FAB]

No. They were critical of the enemies of the Church attacking it from inside and outside.

His criticism is of his own making and should not be allowed to be confused with Church teaching. He should be including himself as one of those “enemies”

 

[jam070406]

His criticism is of his own making and should not be allowed to be confused with Church teaching. He should be including himself as one of those “enemies”

I could really care less if people like him or not. It’s not his personality that is the underlining problem. IMHO, It’s his teaching of authentic Catholic Teaching, especially in the area of sexual morality.

 

[LiveCatholic]

No. They were critical of the enemies of the Church attacking it from inside and outside.

In his statement, the Catechism passage he cites when referring to his unnamed enemies at the AoD’s Chancery is Cat. 2357, the passage defining the Church’s position on homosexuality.

He’s pretty much calling them ‘gay’ or wicked, angry gays. But its still not clear who exactly he’s even talking about.

This is literally the Catholic ‘High Church’ version of a schoolyard argument. Its petty, and I don’t like it.

 

[jam070406]

In his statement, the Catechism passage he cites when referring to his unnamed enemies at the AoD’s Chancery is Cat. 2357, the passage defining the Church’s position on homosexuality.

He’s pretty much calling them ‘gay’ or wicked, angry gays. But its still not clear who. This is literally the Catholic ‘High Church’ version of a schoolyard argument. Its petty, and I don’t like it.

Why did Mr. Voris say Archbishop needs prayers against those that dissent against doctrine?

Remember the American Catholic Council?

lifesitenews.com/news/detroit-archbishop-issues-stark-warning-against-conference-with-pro-abort-p/

Why was/is Dignity allowed to use the name Catholic?

www.dignitydetroit.org

Why was it reported that “the Archdiocese of Detroit was the only diocese in the United State that allowed the homosexual group–which rejects the teachings of the Catholic Church–to host regularly scheduled Masses in a local parish church?”

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=20961

bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/media/ignore-pf.htm

 

[LiveCatholic]

Why did Mr. Voris say Archbishop needs prayers against those that dissent against doctrine?

Remember the American Catholic Council?

lifesitenews.com/news/detroit-archbishop-issues-stark-warning-against-conference-with-pro-abort-p/

Why was/is Dignity allowed to use the name Catholic?

www.dignitydetroit.org

Why was it reported that “the Archdiocese of Detroit was the only diocese in the United State that allowed the homosexual group–which rejects the teachings of the Catholic Church–to host regularly scheduled Masses in a local parish church?”

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=20961

bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/media/ignore-pf.htm

You make a fair point, sir. :-\