RCTV statement, regarding AOD, issued.

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

From the website of the Archdiocese of Detroit reagarding the ACC.
Responding to concerns raised by the faithful about an organization called the American Catholic Council (ACC), the Archdiocese of Detroit issued an advisory to its priests and parishes on October 12, 2010. The group has planned a national gathering in Detroit on the weekend of Pentecost 2011. Noting that the ACC and its national gathering are not conducted under the auspices of the Detroit archdiocese, the universal Roman Catholic Church, or any entity or organization affiliated with the archdiocese or the Roman Catholic Church, the advisory cautioned Catholics “…against participating in the American Catholic Council local listening sessions and national gathering.” The advisory noted the goals of the ACC are largely in opposition to the teachings of the Second Vatican Council. There are positions espoused by some of the speakers and organizers which are clearly contrary to Catholic faith. What follows are resource documents and a recent letter from Archbishop Vigneron to the priests of the archdiocese.

This is the usual tactic of one who can not defend something so they bring up other cases of error as a way to justify what they are attempting to defend.

Two phrases come to mine. “If your friend jumped off a bridge, would you?” and “Two wrongs don’t make a right.”

 

[Tridentinum]

His criticism is of his own making and should not be allowed to be confused with Church teaching. He should be including himself as one of those “enemies”

Yeah I agree, we should all turn a blind eye and not dare to criticize questionable actions of a Church authority, and watch the Church fall to pieces more than it already is in the West. Sounds like the best idea.

 

[Canto]

It’s interesting the Archbishop of Detroit has remained silent.

St Michael’s Media (notice they don’t use the word Catholic) make content in Detroit for Mr. Brammer who owns RCTV. He lives in a different diocese.

So if the AOD want RCTV to stop using the name Catholic, they need to contact Mr. Brammer, who again, lives in another diocese.

 

[jam070406]

From the website of the Archdiocese of Detroit reagarding the ACC.
Responding to concerns raised by the faithful about an organization called the American Catholic Council (ACC), the Archdiocese of Detroit issued an advisory to its priests and parishes on October 12, 2010. The group has planned a national gathering in Detroit on the weekend of Pentecost 2011. Noting that the ACC and its national gathering are not conducted under the auspices of the Detroit archdiocese, the universal Roman Catholic Church, or any entity or organization affiliated with the archdiocese or the Roman Catholic Church, the advisory cautioned Catholics “…against participating in the American Catholic Council local listening sessions and national gathering.” The advisory noted the goals of the ACC are largely in opposition to the teachings of the Second Vatican Council. There are positions espoused by some of the speakers and organizers which are clearly contrary to Catholic faith. What follows are resource documents and a recent letter from Archbishop Vigneron to the priests of the archdiocese.

This is the usual tactic of one who can not defend something so they bring up other cases of error as a way to justify what they are attempting to defend.

Two phrases come to mine. “If your friend jumped off a bridge, would you?” and “Two wrongs don’t make a right.”

Personal attacks are unbecoming of you.

Where is the AOD condemnation of Dignity? You left that out.

 

[jam070406]

From the website of the Archdiocese of Detroit reagarding the ACC.
Responding to concerns raised by the faithful about an organization called the American Catholic Council (ACC), the Archdiocese of Detroit issued an advisory to its priests and parishes on October 12, 2010. The group has planned a national gathering in Detroit on the weekend of Pentecost 2011. Noting that the ACC and its national gathering are not conducted under the auspices of the Detroit archdiocese, the universal Roman Catholic Church, or any entity or organization affiliated with the archdiocese or the Roman Catholic Church, the advisory cautioned Catholics “…against participating in the American Catholic Council local listening sessions and national gathering.” The advisory noted the goals of the ACC are largely in opposition to the teachings of the Second Vatican Council. There are positions espoused by some of the speakers and organizers which are clearly contrary to Catholic faith. What follows are resource documents and a recent letter from Archbishop Vigneron to the priests of the archdiocese.

This is the usual tactic of one who can not defend something so they bring up other cases of error as a way to justify what they are attempting to defend.

Two phrases come to mine. “If your friend jumped off a bridge, would you?” and “Two wrongs don’t make a right.”

I think in your zeal and disdain for Voris that you are unable to grasp the entire situation. Perhaps it would be better if you didn’t comment on the issue.

 

[PaulinVA]

How does the way the AOD handles other groups that some posters don’t like have to do with RealCatholicTV?

The AOD, which claims jurisdiction, wants RealCatholicTV to submit to whatever scrutiny is needed to use the name Catholic. The answer from Voris is two fold - the schoolyard “You’re not the boss of me” and to publicly tell people to pray for the Archbishop.

I am totally turned off by that.

I would prefer that RealCatholicTV work this out, because they have no consent to use the name Catholic from any competent authority under the meaning of canon 216. The AOD asserts authority, but since RealCatholicTV disputes jurisdiction - they should proactively obtain consent (not an unofficial “no problems with them”) from the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend.

Plain and simple.

 

[jam070406]

How does the way the AOD handles other groups that some posters don’t like have to do with RealCatholicTV?

The AOD, which claims jurisdiction, wants RealCatholicTV to submit to whatever scrutiny is needed to use the name Catholic. The answer from Voris is two fold - the schoolyard “You’re not the boss of me” and to publicly tell people to pray for the Archbishop.

I am totally turned off by that.

I would prefer that RealCatholicTV work this out, because they have no consent to use the name Catholic from any competent authority under the meaning of canon 216. The AOD asserts authority, but since RealCatholicTV disputes jurisdiction - they should proactively obtain consent (not an unofficial “no problems with them”) from the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend.

Plain and simple.

If it’s plain and simple, name the allegation.

 

[FAB]

I could really care less if people like him or not. It’s not his personality that is the underlining problem. IMHO, It’s his teaching of authentic Catholic Teaching, especially in the area of sexual morality.

Your stastement seems to make one think that you then question if the bishops, priest and deacons are teaching “true” catholic doctrine.
As a Deacon I take offense. I have looked at what Voris proclaims and a lot of it is borderline and much of it just his own opinon.
I teach authentic Catholic doctrine as do all who are ordained. We also have the theological studies as well as the facilities granted to us from our ordinary to do so.
Voris has nothing, except what he thinks the way should be. He doesn’t seem to want to have permission from the ordianry for what he does, because in his words he wants to be able to “speak feely”. Speaking freely doesn’t back what he says right.
So you don’t get the wrong idea, I’m not jealous of the man, I do believe that he is not sowing the seeds of Christ but sowing the seeds of dissention.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I think in your zeal and disdain for Voris that you are unable to grasp the entire situation. Perhaps it would be better if you didn’t comment on the issue.

Yes, I do not care for Mr Voris’ style, or lack there of, but that has nothing to do with this.

I might say that your zeal and love for Voris makes you unable to grasp the entire situation yourself.

If we are not to comment on things where we have biases then there would be no forum at all.

At least I admit my bias. That bias is a support of the Church and its rightful authorities.

This issue needs to be heard and decided by a tribunal of the Church to decide which diocese has the jurisdiction here. How the Archdiocese treats other groups have nothing to do with this case. It can only be used to muddy the waters and attempt to turn people against the archbishop.

As to personal attacks, I apologize if I did so but I now expect you to apologize for your personal attacks on the people who work in the chancery and on the archbishop.

 

[jam070406]

Your stastement seems to make one think that you then question if the bishops, priest and deacons are teaching “true” catholic doctrine.
As a Deacon I take offense. I have looked at what Voris proclaims and a lot of it is borderline and much of it just his own opinon.
I teach authentic Catholic doctrine as do all who are ordained. We also have the theological studies as well as the facilities granted to us from our ordinary to do so.
Voris has nothing, except what he thinks the way should be. He doesn’t seem to want to have permission from the ordianry for what he does, because in his words he wants to be able to “speak feely”. Speaking freely doesn’t back what he says right.
So you don’t get the wrong idea, I’m not jealous of the man, I do believe that he is not sowing the seeds of Christ but sowing the seeds of dissention.

Did you read the CWR and Catholic culture articles? Are you a deacon in Detroit?

I resent you putting words in my mouth. I never said all priests, deacons or bishops don’t teach authentic Catholic Teaching. I know wonderful Holy Priests in my diocese. You attempting to paint me as a dissenter pains me greatly.

 

[jam070406]

Yes, I do not care for Mr Voris’ style, or lack there of, but that has nothing to do with this.

I might say that your zeal and love for Voris makes you unable to grasp the entire situation yourself.

If we are not to comment on things where we have biases then there would be no forum at all.

At least I admit my bias. That bias is a support of the Church and its rightful authorities.

This issue needs to be heard and decided by a tribunal of the Church to decide which diocese has the jurisdiction here. How the Archdiocese treats other groups have nothing to do with this case. It can only be used to muddy the waters and attempt to turn people against the archbishop.

As to personal attacks, I apologize if I did so but I now expect you to apologize for your personal attacks on the people who work in the chancery and on the archbishop.

Look. I agree with you. I don’t have a zeal for Voris. I recognize that he teaches things that prick the conscious, especially on issues of sexual morality. I think we need this, especially in Detroit! I don’t believe he has taught anything contrary to the Church. If he has, it is only proper justice to be informed of what he is being accused of. Otherwise, this looks like nothing but an attempt to silence him. The Archbishop needs to personally address this.

 

[FAB]

Did you read the CWR and Catholic culture articles? Are you a deacon in Detroit?

I resent you putting words in my mouth. I never said all priests, deacons or bishops don’t teach authentic Catholic Teaching. I know wonderful Holy Priests in my diocese. You attempting to paint me as a dissenter pains me greatly.

No I am not a deacon in Detroit, but Voris and his web site are just not in Detroit, so what he says effects a much wider audiance.

You seem to be defending Voris because you claim he is giving Authentic Catholic Teaching. In doing so you are implying that those of us who are charged with such are not doing so, specifically our bishops.
It is also not up to Voris to determine what that teaching should be. That is in the hands souly of the bishops.

 

[PaulinVA]

If it’s plain and simple, name the allegation.

Plain and simple, RealCatholicTV does not have the consent from competent authority to use the word Catholic.

Consent is a positive thing, isn’t it? If they have a Bishop’s consent, let them say who consented and this is all over.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Look. I agree with you. I don’t have a zeal for Voris. I recognize that he teaches things that prick the conscious, especially on issues of sexual morality. I think we need this, especially in Detroit! I don’t believe he has taught anything contrary to the Church. If he has, it is only proper justice to be informed of what he is being accused of. Otherwise, this looks like nothing but an attempt to silence him. The Archbishop needs to personally address this.

He is being accused of violation of Code 216 of the Code of Canon Law;
Can. 216 Since they share the Church’s mission, all Christ’s faithful have the right to promote and support apostolic action, by their own initiative, undertaken according to their state and condition. No initiative, however, can lay claim to the title ‘catholic’ without the consent of the competent ecclesiastical authority.

Doesn’t matter if he is teaching right from the Catechism or not, the title ‘catholic’ should not be used by someone taking up a mission of the Church (teaching the faithful) without the local ordinaries approval.

There is no attempt to silence anyone. RCTV can speak out with out ‘catholic’ as part of their name.

 

[Tigg]

Did you read the CWR and Catholic culture articles? Are you a deacon in Detroit?

I resent you putting words in my mouth. I never said all priests, deacons or bishops don’t teach authentic Catholic Teaching. I know wonderful Holy Priests in my diocese. You attempting to paint me as a dissenter pains me greatly.

This is the way of the world, now…black is white and white is black. Any truly orthodox person or organization can expect to be persecuted and/or accused.

I do believe that he is not sowing the seeds of Christ but sowing the seeds of dissention.

Funny…many of us think he is merely defending the True Church, altho I must admit sometimes his style grates on the nerves. He is critical, exposes problems and asks the tough questions, but I have never heard him NOT uphold authentic Catholic teaching or praise the good priests and bishops when the occasion merits. And he always, but always, **submits to Rome and the Holy Father. **

Your stastement seems to make one think that you then question if the bishops, priest and deacons are teaching “true” catholic doctrine.

Since you are a deacon I’ll ask you this question. Why does the prelate not speak with one heart and one mind? There are vast differences within each diocese bordering on issues of faith and morals. Seems one almost needs to be a canon lawyer anymore to be a good and obedient Catholic.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Funny…many of us think he is merely defending the True Church, altho I must admit sometimes his style grates on the nerves. He is critical, exposes problems and asks the tough questions, but I have never heard him NOT uphold authentic Catholic teaching or praise the good priests and bishops when the occasion merits. And he always, but always, **submits to Rome and the Holy Father. **

The problem I have is his misrepresentation of things. This was pointed out by Jimmy Akin in his evaluation of one of Voris’ videos.

Anyone can claim to submit to Rome, many groups do just that but then go ahead and do their own things.

Since you are a deacon I’ll ask you this question. Why does the prelate not speak with one heart and one mind? There are vast differences within each diocese bordering on issues of faith and morals. Seems one almost needs to be a canon lawyer anymore to be a good and obedient Catholic.

You do not need to be a canon lawyer. You are to be obedient to your ordinary. It matters not what other bishops say when your bishop speaks you listen, unless he is leading you to sin.

 

[jam070406]

The problem I have is his misrepresentation of things. This was pointed out by Jimmy Akin in his evaluation of one of Voris’ videos.

Anyone can claim to submit to Rome, many groups do just that but then go ahead and do their own things.

You do not need to be a canon lawyer. You are to be obedient to your ordinary. It matters not what other bishops say when your bishop speaks you listen, unless he is leading you to sin.

The Archbishop has not spoken directly to RCTV. And on numerous attempts RCTV has been denied access to the competent authority to clear the issue.

 

[jam070406]

He is being accused of violation of Code 216 of the Code of Canon Law;
Can. 216 Since they share the Church’s mission, all Christ’s faithful have the right to promote and support apostolic action, by their own initiative, undertaken according to their state and condition. No initiative, however, can lay claim to the title ‘catholic’ without the consent of the competent ecclesiastical authority.

Doesn’t matter if he is teaching right from the Catechism or not, the title ‘catholic’ should not be used by someone taking up a mission of the Church (teaching the faithful) without the local ordinaries approval.

There is no attempt to silence anyone. RCTV can speak out with out ‘catholic’ as part of their name.

The competent authority has not met with them. In addition, that authority has changed in recent years.

 

[jam070406]

Plain and simple, RealCatholicTV does not have the consent from competent authority to use the word Catholic.

Consent is a positive thing, isn’t it? If they have a Bishop’s consent, let them say who consented and this is all over.

Archbishop Vigneron was installed in 2009. Since then he has been busy with his Changing Lives Together initiative, to be implemented at every Parish, looming debt and the task of restructuring the Archdiocese with mergers and closing. I highly doubt, if he knows who he is, that going after Voris was a top priority. Hence, no official word from the Archbishop. And easy deflection to avoid a meeting between the two.

 

[mlund]

If St. Michael’s Media is in Michigan but RealCatholicTV is a registered business in Indiana then the use of “Catholic” in RealCatholicTV falls under the Bishop over South Bend, not Detroit. RealCatholic TV follows Indiana laws and pays Indiana taxes even if they use vendors in Michigan much or all of their content.

• Marty Lund