Re-Opening Mass Responsibly

[otjm]

Yes, they are shooting for early next year. What is average is not really relevant. The safeties that the FDA have in place become more of a balance of safety when a virus is this easily spread with the higher mortality rate.

Understood, and there is a reason I don’t invest in any biotech stocks; they tend to be very volatile. There is still a process of testing, both for efficaciousness and possible other effects/reactions. Last I heard, at least two labs are past animal testing and in first round human.

What I pray for is not necessarily what I hold my breath for.

 

[phil3]

Dr. Yes, and unless my priest is also a medical professional, then no.

 

[PetraG]

What I pray for is not necessarily what I hold my breath for.

The remedy for smallpox was to get cowpox first. Our best hope for a speedy return to normalcy is if Providence provides a “cowpox” mutation in SARS-CoV-2.

Not what I hold my breath for, but I’m praying for it.

 

[LisaB]

What I don’t understand about contact tracing is, how does it help me to know that I was in a church building with someone who tested positive? Are they going to ask all the Mass attendees to quarantine for 2 weeks? That’s not realistic. Will the same apply if I was near an infected person in a grocery store or restaurant? I don’t get the point behind this.

 

[PetraG]

What I don’t understand about contact tracing is, how does it help me to know that I was in a church building with someone who tested positive? Are they going to ask all the Mass attendees to quarantine for 2 weeks? That’s not realistic. Will the same apply if I was near an infected person in a grocery store or restaurant? I don’t get the point behind this.

It’s 25 people. Why isn’t it realistic that they self-quarantine? (Did you not know that EMS providers and first responders who weren’t wearing PPE when they were exposed to a COVID-19 patient actually do that?)

I do not understand why people wouldn’t want to know they may have had contact with a known COVID-19 case. This is especially true among people who might be living with or delivering groceries to people in at-risk groups, but really, we’re not getting our restrictions lifted until we really lower the prevalence of this virus. That doesn’t happen by people just not caring whether they get exposed or not. (Maybe our restrictions here in Oregon aren’t as restrictive on the general population as in other places?)

 

[LisaB]

LisaB:

What I don’t understand about contact tracing is, how does it help me to know that I was in a church building with someone who tested positive? Are they going to ask all the Mass attendees to quarantine for 2 weeks? That’s not realistic. Will the same apply if I was near an infected person in a grocery store or restaurant? I don’t get the point behind this.

It’s 25 people. Why isn’t it realistic that they self-quarantine?

For one, many, if not most, simply won’t do it - not because they are purposely uncaring but because they consider it overkill. Second, if the infected person sat on the opposite side of the church from me, the chances of me getting the virus from him are very low. So to expect this from everyone in the church, especially if it’s a large cathedral, is indeed overkill.

 

[PetraG]

Well, be sure they won’t be welcome at church for 14 days.
(Not exactly pegging the obedience meter, either.)

 

[CilladeRoma]

According to the limited research I did, it sounded like the Bishop was implementing these rules to be in compliance with what the Mayor and Governor of his state has inacted. If that is the case, the government has no right to do so.
If this is just the Bishop’s own idea because he thinks is sounds like a good idea and it will be “safer”, well, I am very glad he is not my Bishop.

 

[PetraG]

According to the limited research I did, it sounded like the Bishop was implementing these rules to be in compliance with what the Mayor and Governor of his state has inacted. If that is the case, the government has no right to do so.
If this is just the Bishop’s own idea because he thinks is sounds like a good idea and it will be “safer”, well, I am very glad he is not my Bishop.

If one of his priests tests positive after offering Mass, the parish will be able to immediately contact every person at every Mass he offered, even though Catholics from outside parishes are being made welcome.

I still don’t see what the problem is, here. I’d want to know if anyone there was positive, but surely if the priest tests positive everyone is going to want to know right away! If you’re allowed in from outside the parish, how else are they going to find you in a timely manner?

 

[LisaB]

We may not agree with him on this particular issue, but Archbishop Sample is actually an amazing bishop. I would love for him to be my bishop, even if I don’t agree with him on some things here and there.

 

[otjm]

If that is the case, the government has no right to do so.

Again, you are insisting - with a whole lot of other people - that the government does not have the power to do so, but you state nothing to prove your point. :Under emergency powers they do - and while there are limits to police powers - they are not absolute - you are mistaken that the State does not have the ability to quarantine if necessary. that is why there is a lot of screaming an hollering ’ I have my rights" - by people who have little or no knowledge of any concept of balance of powers.

You are most welcome as long as your bishop states that you are currently no longer required to attend Mass under the penalty of sin, to not go to Mass. As to the power of the State to limit gatherings of people, it does have the power to do so.

I am not going to attempt to define the limits of that authority as it can vary from state to state, but is is well established law that the authority exists.

 

[JulianN]

My understanding the local Costco stores will nbot be allowing anyone in who does not have a mask, and there were an allged 600 +/- people objecting that the store had no right to require this

It’s funny that I never see protests about having to wear shoes in Costco. Or shirts.
And of course the mass pantless demonstrations are notably missing.

 

[JulianN]

that is why there is a lot of screaming an hollering ’ I have my rights" - by people who have little or no knowledge of any concept of balance of powers.

I’ve been wondering how these people would have coped with rationing in WWII. Or blackout curtains. These things weren’t up for a vote.

 

[otjm]

It’s funny that I never see protests about having to wear shoes in Costco. Or shirts.
And of course the mass pantless demonstrations are notably missing.

“But I have rights!!!”

Point. I would give 10, but am allowed only one.

 

[otjm]

Off topic in my response, but my recollection is that Oregon was the only state to be attacked by the Japanese military - a plane tried to fire bomb our forest twice, which caused minimal damage and a submarine shelled Ft. Stevens; additonally a submarine shelled an oil field near Santa Barbara, again to minimal damage. late in the war Japan sent helium balloons over by the jet stream, spotted in 15 states. In Oregon, a pregnant woman and 5 children were killed when they found one of the devices.

And the rules were followed more aggressively then than they are now (with a few exceptions across the US).

 

[PetraG]

He looked so happy announcing that it was possible to start having public Masses:
https://archdpdx.org/messages-from-archbishop-sample
(May 5 message)

 

[OraLabora]

1. Diabetic. Even though other than the diabetes I am fit with no hypertension, normal BMI, no heart condition, cycling 200 km a week, I am NOT going to Mass until all this is over, even if the obligation isn’t lifted. Nor to any other gathering. I’m doing just fine living like a Carthusian monk at the moment

And I still participate in daily liturgy, aka Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[PetraG]

1. Diabetic. Even though other than the diabetes I am fit with no hypertension, normal BMI, no heart condition, cycling 200 km a week, I am NOT going to Mass until all this is over, even if the obligation isn’t lifted. Nor to any other gathering. I’m doing just fine living like a Carthusian monk at the moment

And I still participate in daily liturgy, aka Liturgy of the Hours.

The qualification “other than diabetes” seems to be very important with this particular virus (and one of the reasons Louisiana is being hit hard). As more data come in, it isn’t even clear that being overweight is an issue compared to being diabetic, having high blood pressure, or having cardiac disease.

I don’t think any bishop is going to withdraw the dispensation for anyone who honestly feels concerned for their health. Even in normal times, that dispensation is available.

 

[OraLabora]

I did read that having well-controlled diabetes, with no complications, is not so bad which is my case (without insulin). But then I ready the virus can play havoc with blood sugars. So I won’t take chances. I’ve been fastidious about control When sugars started to creep up last autumn, I was at 195 lbs. I promptly went on a fasting diet and got it down to 171 lbs. It’s been stable between 170-173 for the last several months. That brought sugars back around to where they should be.

I’ve never been one to ask for a dispensation when I’m sick or for other legitimate reasons (i.e. travelling by air on a Sunday; I used to travel to Korea a lot on business, would leave home at 5 am on a Saturday morning, and land in Soul at 5 pm on Sunday evening somewhat the worse for wear). I assume it’s automatic.

 

[PeterT]

The first ammendment of the US Constitution.
This is, arguably, an infringement on the free-expression of my religion. If you are going to track people in the name of “safety”, why not patrons of bars/restaurants, stores, gas stations, etc.

It would be a good idea to keep track of dine-in customers of restaurants and bars, but it doesn’t make sense for stores and gas stations. How this virus spreads is predicated on two things — distance and time — how close one is to an infected person and how long one is near an infected person.

At shops and gas stations one might be briefly near one who is infected but a brief encounter is not likely give enough of the virus to transmit from the infected person to another to cause other person to get ill.

At restaurants, bars and at Mass, one could be seating close to someone who is infected for a long enough time that they are at a much higher risk of getting infected by the other person’s exhalation.

Therefore, it would be a good idea to have sign-in sheets at restaurants and bars too for those who would want to dine-in or socialize at a bar or lounge.

But shopping at stores or filling up at a gas station, it would be overkill.