Reading Scripture together as Christians

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We are commanded to speak the truth in love.

Ephesians 4 |

4:1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it says,

“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”

9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? [1] 10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds [2] and teachers, [3] 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, [4] to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love. - Ephesians 4
I knew eventually we would agree on something! 🙂

Does this “tossed to and fro by the wave and carried about by every wind of doctrine” not refer to the multitude of Christian theologies that are present in the world today?
 
John 18:38

Pilate said to him, “What is truth?”
That is what everyone asks when the Catholic Church proclaims to be the One, True Church.

As if it is impossible for someone to have figured it out.

Actually…we did not figure it out…it was given to us…circa 33AD.
 
Reformed…you have once again taken it upon yourself to judge the intentions of my heart.

I was replying to Ronald E. and Guanophor, because they were so kind. We are all children of God, and they were encouraging me with their Christian love, as we continue to run the race, as Paul writes:) We are to build one another up in charity, are we not?
 
Reformed…you have once again taken it upon yourself to judge the intentions of my heart.

I was replying to Ronald E. and Guanophor, because they were so kind. We are all children of God, and they were encouraging me with their Christian love, as we continue to run the race, as Paul writes:) We are to build one another up in charity, are we not?
The Bible Study threads have so many post that are not related to the Bible Studies. It appears that many Roman Catholics intentionally post unrelated comment to avoid the Scripture contents and derail the thread. I can have a pretty good idea when someone understands what we are studying in the Scriptures, and when someone really doesn’t have much of a clue. We can all learn together with the correct motive by studying the Scriptures together. Everyone comes to the Scriptures with preconceived ideas and presuppositions. Therefore, we have to come in faith that God the Holy Spirit will continue to transform our minds through the Scriptures.
 
The Bible Study threads have so many post that are not related to the Bible Studies. It appears that many Roman Catholics intentionally post unrelated comment to avoid the Scripture contents and derail the thread. ** I can have a pretty good idea when someone understands what we are studying in the Scriptures, and when someone really doesn’t have much of a clue. **We can all learn together with the correct motive by studying the Scriptures together. Everyone comes to the Scriptures with preconceived ideas and presuppositions. Therefore, we have to come in faith that God the Holy Spirit will continue to transform our minds through the Scriptures.
In other words…we must continue to re read the scriptures, until you deem us less clueless?
 
In other words…we must continue to re read the scriptures, until you deem us less clueless?
Just like Protestantism, some Roman Catholic Christians on this site are extremely grounded in the essentials of the Christian Faith; therefore they understand the issues brought up in the Scriptures very well. Some Roman Catholics on this site are quite clueless. We can have mutually exclusive interpertations, but everyone has to have the proper motive in going through the Scriptures together as an inter-denominational Bible Study. I think Ryan and Michael are great examples for Roman Catholics to follow in regards to the Scriptures and a Bible Study.
 
everyone has to have the proper motive in going through the Scriptures together as an inter-denominational Bible Study.
Don’t tell me, let me guess. Might the proper attitude be one that agrees with Reformed?

:bowdown:
Reformed said:
I will still be reading responses to me very selectively, depending on the preceived attitude that I get from those who answer me on a regular basis.
Are those worthy of a reading from you those that are inclined toward Protestantism?
 
The Bible Study threads have so many post that are not related to the Bible Studies.
Have you considered that your bible study threads are not really related to Bible Studies, but to something else?
It appears that many Roman Catholics intentionally post unrelated comment to avoid the IScripture contents and derail the thread.
I am sure it does appear that way to you, especially when it interferes with your evangelistic agenda.

I was going to post a link to your characterization of Catholics in bible study in the funny images thread, but it appears that some of your posts have been removed as a result of their offensive content.
I can have a pretty good idea when someone understands what we are studying in the Scriptures, and when someone really doesn’t have much of a clue.
All praise and honor to you, oh thou with the Mind of Christ. :rolleyes:
We can all learn together with the correct motive by studying the Scriptures together. Everyone comes to the Scriptures with preconceived ideas and presuppositions. Therefore, we have to come in faith that God the Holy Spirit will continue to transform our minds through the Scriptures.
Amen. 👍
 
Thus should one regard us: as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. (1 Cor 4:1)

When Paul uses the word steward he uses imagery of house managers who are in charge of their master’s estate. Spiritual ministers who manage the affairs of God’s household (the Church). (Luke 12: 42-48)

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Tim 3:15)

The CCC describes it this way.
859 Jesus unites them to the mission he received from the Father. As “the Son can do nothing of his own accord,” but receives everything from the Father who sent him, so those whom Jesus sends can do nothing apart from him, from whom they received both the mandate for their mission and the power to carry it out. Christ’s apostles knew that they were called by God as “ministers of a new covenant,” “servants of God,” “ambassadors for Christ,” “servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.”
"Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me. (Mat 10:40)

**Jesus answered and said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, a son cannot do anything on his own, but only what he sees his father doing; for what he does, his son will do also. (John 5:19)

I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. (John 15:5)**

And the mysteries of God they are stewards of are the revealed truths of the New Covenant revealed in the gospel.

who has indeed qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of letter but of spirit; for the letter brings death, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor 3:6)

So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (2 Cor 5:20)
 
Paul goes on to say that he must be found trustworthy by God.

Now it is of course required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself; I am not conscious of anything against me, but I do not thereby stand acquitted; the one who judges me is the Lord. (1 Cor 4:2-4)

Even though many people are critical of him his conscience is clear (but not necessarily correct). My study bible says I do not thereby stand acquitted means “I am not justified by this.”

Therefore, do not make any judgment before the appointed time, until the Lord comes, for he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts, and then everyone will receive praise from God. (1 Cor 4:5)

The final verdict on his ministry waits on the Judgment. Before then, it is dangerous to judge the work of others.

on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people’s hidden works through Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:26)

The CCC says
678 Following in the steps of the prophets and John the Baptist, Jesus announced the judgment of the Last Day in his preaching. Then will the conduct of each one and the secrets of hearts be brought to light. Then will the culpable unbelief that counted the offer of God’s grace as nothing be condemned. Our attitude to our neighbor will disclose acceptance or refusal of grace and divine love. On the Last Day Jesus will say: “Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.”
 
on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people’s hidden works through Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:26)
Thanks Ryan for your last two post and your labor on this Bible Study. The additional references to the CC and comments are good. As you may know, I look at the Catholic Catehchism as a Roman Catholic commentary and not as something as inspired or authorative to non-Christian Catholics. I find your quote of Romans 2:26 to be very interesting in regards to Paul’s gospel. I still don’t think that the Catholic Gospel can be documented and supported by the 13 Epistles of Paul. I hope you are aware that I started another thread called “Galatians - Bible Study” since this particular book like Romans are good books to understand Paul’s gospel. The only comment I would like to make in regards to your two post is this:

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Tim 3:15)

Protestants do not understand the church as being the Roman Catholic Church and all of her teachings. The church of the living God consists of all those who have been united to Christ throughout redemptive history and is much bigger. It is bulit upon the revealed teachings of the Apostles recorded in the New Testmanet and not through apparent apostles or prophets comming outside the New Testament Apostles. The Faith to contend for that was once for all delievered to the saints (Jude 3), is contained withing the pages of Holy Scripture. The Protestant cannon and Catholc cannon of the New Testament are exactly the same. Please continue with the Bible Study of 1 Corinthians. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (Holy Scriptures). I use two Protestant Confessions of Faith as a general guide to make sure I do not go too far off on my own in the Christian Faith. On the next post is my positon of extra-biblical sources like the Catholic Catechism. It is taken from the Westminster Confession of Faith which is considered the most famous Protestant confessional document throughout church history.
 
Chapter I
Of the Holy Scripture
I. Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable;[1] yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation.[2] Therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal Himself, and to declare that His will unto His Church;[3] and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing;[4] which makes the Holy Scripture to be most necessary;[5] those former ways of God’s revealing His will unto His people being now ceased.[6]

II. Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testament, which are these: Of the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, The Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi. Of the New Testament: The Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul’s Epistles to the Romans, Corinthians I, Corinthians II, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians I , Thessalonians II , To Timothy I , To Timothy II, To Titus, To Philemon, The Epistle to the Hebrews, The Epistle of James, The first and second Epistles of Peter, The first, second, and third Epistles of John, The Epistle of Jude, The Revelation of John. All which are given by inspiration of God to be the rule of faith and life.[7]

III. The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon of the Scripture, and therefore are of no authority in the Church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved, or made use of, than other human writings.[8]

IV. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.[9]

V. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture.[10] And the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is, to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man’s salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it does abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God: yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.[11]

VI. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man’s salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men.[12] Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word:[13] and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.[14]

VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all:[15] yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.[16]

VIII. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;[17] so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them.[18] But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them,[19] therefore they are to be translated in to the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come,[20] that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner;[21] and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.[22]

IX. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly.[23]

X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.[24]
 
Thanks Ryan for your last two post and your labor on this Bible Study. The additional references to the CC and comments are good. As you may know, I look at the Catholic Catehchism as a Roman Catholic commentary and not as something as inspired or authorative to non-Christian Catholics. I find your quote of Romans 2:26 to be very interesting in regards to Paul’s gospel. I still don’t think that the Catholic Gospel can be documented and supported by the 13 Epistles of Paul. I hope you are aware that I started another thread called “Galatians - Bible Study” since this particular book like Romans are good books to understand Paul’s gospel. The only comment I would like to make in regards to your two post is this:

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Tim 3:15)

Protestants do not understand the church as being the Roman Catholic Church and all of her teachings. The church of the living God consists of all those who have been united to Christ throughout redemptive history and is much bigger. It is bulit upon the revealed teachings of the Apostles recorded in the New Testmanet and not through apparent apostles or prophets comming outside the New Testament Apostles. The Faith to contend for that was once for all delievered to the saints (Jude 3), is contained withing the pages of Holy Scripture. The Protestant cannon and Catholc cannon of the New Testament are exactly the same. Please continue with the Bible Study of 1 Corinthians. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (Holy Scriptures). I use two Protestant Confessions of Faith as a general guide to make sure I do not go too far off on my own in the Christian Faith.
“You are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church. And the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.” What do you make of this passage? And can you help me see where the Bible supports the idea of a more “loose” idea of “church?”
I also take the “hearing by the Word of God” to mean “Hearing by Christ.” Because as it says in John, Christ is the Word made flesh:)
Catholics also do not believe that the church is “just” the visible Catholic church, we believe in the visible and the more broad invisible body of believers…which is why we are able to acknowledge our protestant brothers and sisters in Christ as such:)
 
“You are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church. And the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.” What do you make of this passage? And can you help me see where the Bible supports the idea of a more “loose” idea of “church?”
I also take the “hearing by the Word of God” to mean “Hearing by Christ.” Because as it says in John, Christ is the Word made flesh:)
Catholics also do not believe that the church is “just” the visible Catholic church, we believe in the visible and the more broad invisible body of believers…which is why we are able to acknowledge our protestant brothers and sisters in Christ as such:)
Protestant’s Final Authority is the Word of God. Catholics have a different source of final authority and hear a different voice than the authorative Word of God which is Holy Scripture.

X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.[24]

reformed.org/documents/wc…ofs/index.html

Click on the link for scriptrual proofs for each statement of faith.

 
Protestant’s Final Authority is the Word of God. Catholics hear a different voice than Protestants.

X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.[24]
reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/index.html

Click on the link for scriptrual proofs for each statement of faith.
 
Protestant’s Final Authority is the Word of God

X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.[24]
Ok, so I understand that the Bible needs to be the authority for the Bible. How do you determine then, whose interpretation to follow?

When I see the passage “and on this rock I will build my church” I believe that very firmly to be evidence of Christ establishing His church on earth, and appointing Peter to be His steward of the truth.
If this interpretation is wrong, can you help me find the correct interpretation with the Bible?
 
Protestant’s Final Authority is the Word of God

**X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.**24]

reformed.org/documents/wc…ofs/index.html

Click on the link for scriptrual proofs for each statement of faith.

The highlighted portion above: is this accepted in Protestant circles as an ancient Christian standard, from the beginning of Christianity?
 
Please see the title of this thread. If you want to debate sola scriptura and Catholic Magesterium authorities, please start another thread. This is a Bible Study currently being led by Ryan who is Roman Catholic. It is appropriate to comment with extra-biblical sources and additional Scripture to support your comments, which Ryan appropriately has posted. However, a distinction needs to be made in regards to a posting of the Catholic Catechism. The Catholic must submit to the Catholic Catechism, but a Protestant will only submit to Scripture as illuminated by God the Holy Spirit as final authority for understanding spiritual truth. 👍 In a Bible Study, we need order and discipline to learn from God through the Scriptures. This can’t be a free for all on all issues that unite and divide Protestants and Catholics.
 
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