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Singinbeauty
Guest
How can it not be both?
Why does it have to be either or?I know I have asked this once already but conveniently it was overlooked…
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Why does it have to be either or?I know I have asked this once already but conveniently it was overlooked…
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
How can it not be both?
I know I have asked this once already but conveniently it was overlooked…
Thanks 
As for the OP’s q., I’ve written about that somewhere in some thread or other 
Short answer - by grace
Grace is what makes the Bible effective for salvation, & all these other things too. Take that away, & neither Bible nor they can be of any use at all. Our inabilities to read, hear, believe, or even to think, cannot get the the better of God’s mercy - if we are saved at all, it is because God chooses to save those whom it pleases Him to save, for His own holy & righteous & gracious purposes. What we do, is a response to that. We don’t put ourselves in His Church - He calls us into it for the glory of His Son 
. The initiative is never ever ours - it is always His.It’s just not possible to say “Reading the Bible cannot save you” as though other things could - none are needed, strictly speaking. Otherwise, we have the Bible being belittled that those other things might be magnified, when in reality they are none of them effective without God’s Grace.
IOW, the discussion on this thread is a corner of a far bigger subject
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Reading the Bible by itself cannot save you. It can move you into actions to save you by being baptized…How can it not be both?
I know I have asked this once already but conveniently it was overlooked…
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Mannyfit75
Guest
I didn’t proclaim them to that they can save. Going the Mass strengthen your faith, saying the rosary increases your spiritual grown, receiving the Blessed Lord in Holy Communion strengthens your temptation over sin…
The Catholic Church does not teaches those practices can save us. It can strengthen us.
The topic here isn’t about Catholic practices and Rites. The topic here is Reading the Bible cannot save you.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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But the things you mention are as ineffective as the Bible is - if the Holy Spirit does not make them effective. They are equally ineffective, & equally effective, for that reason. The rosary is, if not made effective by the Holy Spirit, as ineffectual as the Bible would be without the same Spirit, whether for salvation or for strength. For we have no grace except from God, none at all.
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lak611
Guest
What you say about God’s Grace is true. This is part of a bigger subject, as now you are getting into predestination/free will.Short answer - by grace
It’s just not possible to say “Reading the Bible cannot save you” as though other things could - none are needed, strictly speaking. Otherwise, we have the Bible being belittled that those other things might be magnified, when in reality they are none of them effective without God’s Grace.
IOW, the discussion on this thread is a corner of a far bigger subject
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Singinbeauty
Guest
See but that’s the point I want to drive home… Reading the bible ALONE cannot save you. That is correct. But that is not what the OP’s question or statement suggested. Reading the Bible CAN save you if you open yourelf to the HS for guidence and that leads you to your salvation… So essentially reading the bible DID save you because it led you to God…
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Mannyfit75
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I have already stated that God’s grace saves not reading the Bible.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
The Bible can motivate you to be save due to the actions of the Holy Spirit; however the Bible by itself cannot save you. God saves not the Bible.
The Holy Spirit is God, the Third Person of the Trinity.
The Bible is like the other gifts God has given us, like the 7 Sacraments, spiritual reading books to help your devotion to God. As I said earlier the Bible cannot saved you. God only.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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The Westmister Confession speaks better than I could on this:
V. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture.[10] And the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is, to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man’s salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it does abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God: yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof,** is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts**.[11]reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ch_I.html
AFAICS, there is nothing in that paragraph to which any Christian - even us Catholics - could object. Other things on that page, yes - but not that. [emphasis mine]
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Singinbeauty
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And I agree… Since my first post on this thread this is exactly what I have been trying to point out… BUT… That was not your OP… You stated that reading the Bible cannot save you. Yes it can if it leads you to God. Does it always? If you aren’t open to the HS then no. But that wasn’t the question.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
The OP is in the thread title which states, “Reading the Bible cannot save you.”
When you read the Bible you see in it the Word of God. You then ponder how can I be saved? You are moved by the HS to be baptized. The Holy Spirit sets you in motion not the Bible. The Holy Spirit is “The Lord, the Giver of Life.”
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Gottle_of_Geer
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I missed that - sorry
I rather got the impression that the Bible was being degraded in favour of all those other things - as though they were somehow effective of themselves, & it was not: as though, in fact, they were more important/valuable/effective than it. I must be reading far more into your posts than you intended; yet there are quite a few recent threads which seem to suggest that the Bible is not that valuable. 
The computer is not a terribly good medium for exchanging ideas in some ways…
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Singinbeauty
Guest
But if that hypothetical person had not picked up the Bible, which led them to the HS, which led them to salvation then what would have happened?
I am not saying that it’s the BIBLE itself that saves you… I think you are missing that point… But what I AM saying is that reading the Bible is ONE avenue that will bring you to salvation through God’s mercy so essentially by reading the bible you CAN be saved… Not WILL be saved mind you… CAN…
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Mannyfit75
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All misunderstanding is forgiven.I missed that - sorry
I rather got the impression that the Bible was being degraded in favour of all those other things - as though they were somehow effective of themselves, & it was not: as though, in fact, they were more important/valuable/effective than it. I must be reading far more into your posts than you intended; yet there are quite a few recent threads which seem to suggest that the Bible is not that valuable.
The computer is not a terribly good medium for exchanging ideas in some ways…
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Bennie_P
Guest
Only God can save you. Scripture can be an aid, but it doesn’t save.
2Ti 3:15 -17And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice: That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.
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Singinbeauty
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By being a part of the process it CAN save you through God’s Grace… IT is not what saves you but reading it leads you to God through the HS and THAT is what saves you when you accept that Grace…
My only point was that the OP did not state that reading the Bible ONLY cannot save you just that reading it cannot save you. No, reading the bible ONLY cannot save you. But it does lead you to God through the HS if you are open to it and God saves you. Thus the process of salvation began with the reading the bible and therefore as part of the process became part of what saved you…
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Bennie_P
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Only God saves. Everything else (scripture, prayer, works of mercy, etc.) may be tools God provides for us to use to work out our salvation (sanctify), but only by the God’s Grace are we saved, thinking otherwise is Idolatry, it would seem to me.
Phil 2:12 - 2:13 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation. For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will.
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believers
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God’s grace cannot save unless you have faith in the Gospel of Jesus. The Bible says, faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
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