Reading your kid's journal

[oxymom]

Thanks for everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut. Re the trip. He’s going on a mission to Africa and I was wondering if he was nervous about it. I asked him and he said no but was acting differently. He went to confession. We are grounding for two months. Nothing but school. No phone. There will be an opportunity for a commuted sentence with excellent behavior.

 

[m134e5]

If everything seems to be going fine, don’t be clueless- but allow them SOME privacy. From what I have seen, children of over-protective, nosy parents tend to rebel and get in more trouble than the ones whose parents are watchful- and do not tolerate bad behavior, but acknowledge that they are individuals who are discovering in their own way how to make it in life.

 

[Kat127]

Reading journals? Spy cams? Checking texts?

You are doing your kids more harm than good. I had friends with parents like that. Those kids NEVER went to them when they really needed help- they resented them too much. And they were masters of deceit. They learned too little information just made the parents work harder so they would let their parents catch them for little things and hid everything else. For some of them- it became a game of what could they do while their parents remained clueless. It was awful. I don’t know a single child whose parents did something like this and it didn’t tear them apart. Most of them still have horrible relations with their parents and a few are just starting to mend the bridges.

You can never “force” anyone to tell you anything- even your kids. The smallest child understands his parent cannot get into his head and make his mouth work. Every line of communication you have with your child is because your child wants it. Once you start poking your nose into a place your child expects respect and privacy…and who doesn’t expect privacy in a journal or when they are alone?..you run the risk of those communication lines slamming shut. Maybe your kid will forgive you, maybe they won’t…but they will always trust you a little less.

And for what? All you taught your kid is that an area of privacy has been compromised. For the original poster I doubt your son will ever write down anything he doesn’t want you to see in his journal again.

Just talk to your kids, talk to their teachers and their friends and remember a teenager not telling you everything is normal.

 

[Lutheranteach]

And why should he know show you any trust or respect? He made a mistake. He’s 16. You have less of an excuse. I suppose after reading it you could have had a sit down conversation about trust, etc. without being specific about what you read. One of those general conversations about trust, expectations, responsibility and set some rules. But, I don’t think it’s fair to drop the hammer by getting your info in such a manner. He’s a teen and is going to make some mistakes. Using his journal against him just means he’s got as much, if not more, reason to distrust you as you do him and you’ll lose respect in his eyes. There’s nothing more dangerous than a kid who doesn’t respect you, and don’t think for a second that you somehow don’t have to earn your own kid’s respect. You do.

When I was 16 I was being left home alone for 2-3 days at a time and it was not an issue. I knew what was expected and was treated like an adult and knew what the consequences were if I did not live up what was expected. At the same time, I had tremendous freedoms that most parents would roll their eyes at now.

 

[Corki]

The 16 year old snuck out and got involved in underage (illegal) alcohol consumption. Wrong on so many counts. I can’t believe that some people want to paint the mom as the bad guy here. What a backward way to approach parenting.

Oxymom, you did NOTHING wrong. Especially since you implied challenges you had with the older siblings; you have every reason to use what ever means are at your disposal to try to keep you child safe.

A sixteen year old does not have a “right” to privacy beyond that necessary to preserve modesty.

 

[Kat127]

The 16 year old snuck out and got involved in underage (illegal) alcohol consumption. Wrong on so many counts. I can’t believe that some people want to paint the mom as the bad guy here. What a backward way to approach parenting.

Oxymom, you did NOTHING wrong. Especially since you implied challenges you had with the older siblings; you have every reason to use what ever means are at your disposal to try to keep you child safe.

A sixteen year old does not have a “right” to privacy beyond that necessary to preserve modesty.

I don’t think anyone here believe what the son did was good. But Oxymom did not ask about her son’s behavior she asked about hers.

I think whether or not a child has a “right” to privacy is a moot point. They have an “expectation” of one whether you like it or not. That is why you get the “How could you!?!” responses when you read their journals or listen in during their phone calls.

No one is saying Oxymom is the bad guy. She’s a mom. She loves and cares for her son. She wants to keep him safe. She saw an opportunity to learn more about her son and took it. Now she’s not so sure what she did was right. She made a mistake. The posters, myself included, that are more critical of this approach because it has a very real effect of damaging the relationship between the parent and the child. Sometimes with awful results.

 

[mommamia]

Yes, what the son did was wrong, but that doesn’t make what the mother did right.

You know, two wrongs don’t make a right, the ends don’t justify the means and all that.

Yes, you may learn what “bad” things your kids are up to. But you do this at the cost of loosing their trust and respect.

I had friends with parents like this growing up, they just learned to hide, lie and sneak better.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Yes, what the son did was wrong, but that doesn’t make what the mother did right.

You know, two wrongs don’t make a right, the ends don’t justify the means and all that.

Yes, you may learn what “bad” things your kids are up to. But you do this at the cost of loosing their trust and respect.

I had friends with parents like this growing up, they just learned to hide, lie and sneak better.

If they are sneaking out and getting drunk the respect is already absent.

 

[twopekinguys]

From Dictionary.com

Parent:
–noun

1. a father or a mother.
2. an ancestor, precursor, or progenitor.
3. a source, origin, or cause.
4. a protector or guardian.
5. Biology . any organism that produces or generates another.
6. Physics . the first nuclide in a radioactive series.
   –adjective
7. being the original source: a parent organization.
8. Biology . pertaining to an organism, cell, or complex molecular structure that generates or produces another: parent cell; parent DNA.
   –verb (used with object)
9. to be or act as parent of: to parent children with both love and discipline.

Notice that nowhere in any of these definitions are the words “friend” ,“doormat”. “Sucker”, or "Money Tree used.

However, you will see the words “discipline”, “protector”, and “guardian”

To the earlier poster who talked about their friends who had parents that checked on them, even as much as I checked up on my kid, he knew he could always come to us, and he did quite often. Something tells me there were other issues involved.

Sorry, your premise doesn’t cover everyone.

 

[rayne89]

I’ve done all of the above. If a kid wants to keep something from you they will. What’s a parent supposed to do? I’m a stay at home mom. I have the great after school talks but he never confided in me that he was going to sneak out and have a few beers with friends before driving back home.

Well this will be last time he writes down anything he doesn’t want you know so what are you going to do in the future?

 

[Kat127]

From Dictionary.com

Parent:
–noun

1. a father or a mother.
2. an ancestor, precursor, or progenitor.
3. a source, origin, or cause.
4. a protector or guardian.
5. Biology . any organism that produces or generates another.
6. Physics . the first nuclide in a radioactive series.
   –adjective
7. being the original source: a parent organization.
8. Biology . pertaining to an organism, cell, or complex molecular structure that generates or produces another: parent cell; parent DNA.
   –verb (used with object)
9. to be or act as parent of: to parent children with both love and discipline.

Notice that nowhere in any of these definitions are the words “friend” ,“doormat”. “Sucker”, or "Money Tree used.

However, you will see the words “discipline”, “protector”, and “guardian”

To the earlier poster who talked about their friends who had parents that checked on them, even as much as I checked up on my kid, he knew he could always come to us, and he did quite often. Something tells me there were other issues involved.

Sorry, your premise doesn’t cover everyone.

I know it doesn’t cover everyone. Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying don’t check up on your kids. I’m not saying don’t know where your kids are or don’t know who your kids friends are or don’t worry about a curfew. But there is a difference between that behavior and reading your kids journal or placing a hidden camera on them. There has to be a line.

 

[Em_in_FL]

From Dictionary.com

Parent:
–noun

1. a father or a mother.
2. an ancestor, precursor, or progenitor.
3. a source, origin, or cause.
4. a protector or guardian.
5. Biology . any organism that produces or generates another.
6. Physics . the first nuclide in a radioactive series.
   –adjective
7. being the original source: a parent organization.
8. Biology . pertaining to an organism, cell, or complex molecular structure that generates or produces another: parent cell; parent DNA.
   –verb (used with object)
9. to be or act as parent of: to parent children with both love and discipline.

Notice that nowhere in any of these definitions are the words “friend” ,“doormat”. “Sucker”, or "Money Tree used.

However, you will see the words “discipline”, “protector”, and “guardian”

To the earlier poster who talked about their friends who had parents that checked on them, even as much as I checked up on my kid, he knew he could always come to us, and he did quite often. Something tells me there were other issues involved.

Sorry, your premise doesn’t cover everyone.

Discipline, protector, and guardian can all be achieved through methods that build trust as well…
Building trust does NOT require you to be a friend, doormat, sucker, or money tree either.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Discipline, protector, and guardian can all be achieved through methods that build trust as well…
Building trust does NOT require you to be a friend, doormat, sucker, or money tree either.

It is the child who broke the trust by secretly drinking under age not the parent.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

You’re very fortunate that you found something otherwise you might have felt bad about snooping on your son.

 

[Em_in_FL]

It is the child who broke the trust by secretly drinking under age not the parent.

So it’s reasonable to tear down that trust even more?

No one is suggesting that the child didn’t make a major mistake… nor is anyone suggesting the child shouldn’t be punished severely.

 

[surfinpure]

Here’s what Dr. Ray Guarendi (Catholic psychologist, father of 10) says about teens’ so-called “right to privacy”:

drray.com/audio/commentary/whatrighttoprivacy.mp3

If the specific link doesn’t work, go to this page and find “What Right to Privacy?”

drray.com/commentary.htm

 

[Em_in_FL]

I don’t have the opportunity to listen to that audio link…
But the difference between Dr. Ray (as I presume he is saying in the file) and this situation is that Dr. Ray has these rules laid out and established and understood by his kids AHEAD of time.
In this situation, the OP’s son has a “private journal”, and the fact that the OP questioned her judgment of reading it means that she DID NOT establish this rule ahead of time. Her son is under the assumption that he has privacy since this was not discussed and understood ahead of time.
SHOULD there be a rule of “no privacy”?.. Maybe! But that’s up to each individual family to establish those types of rules… *ahead *of time. Unless rules are established, discussed, and UNDERSTOOD, they aren’t really “rules”, now are they?
If they aren’t established and understood then the son’s understanding of his “rights” have indeed been violated. From his point of view, he probably will trust his mom less in the future.

Again… maybe those rules SHOULD be established, but considering the entire premise of the OP… it sounds as if they weren’t. Since that is the case here… she probably owes him an apology… and then SHOULD establish rules for the future.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

So it’s reasonable to tear down that trust even more?

No one is suggesting that the child didn’t make a major mistake… nor is anyone suggesting the child shouldn’t be punished severely.

Its not a matter of trust at all it is a matter of respect.

Trust is irrelevant to this situation, the child can have 100% trust and possibly does and still he wouldn’t tell her about his under-age drinking becaue he knows she would not approve.

The only kids who would tell their parents about this kind of thing are the kinds who have very bad permissive parents who care more about been their kids buddy than actually looking out for the best interests of the family by deterring negative behaviour.

The issue here is that the child does not have respect either for the laws of society that say he cannot drink at the age he is at or for the authority of his parents.

So the correct action would be one that shows him that he cannot ignore that authority of either the law or his parents without there been negative consequences for him.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Again… maybe those rules SHOULD be established, but considering the entire premise of the OP… it sounds as if they weren’t. Since that is the case here… she probably owes him an apology… and then SHOULD establish rules for the future.

Works both ways, he assumed the journal was private but did mom ever agree it was private and promise not to read it?

If not she owes him nothing, he owes her more than an apology for risking the possibly of landing her in court.

 

[surfinpure]

I don’t have the opportunity to listen to that audio link…
But the difference between Dr. Ray (as I presume he is saying in the file) and this situation is that Dr. Ray has these rules laid out and established and understood by his kids AHEAD of time.
In this situation, the OP’s son has a “private journal”, and the fact that the OP questioned her judgment of reading it means that she DID NOT establish this rule ahead of time. Her son is under the assumption that he has privacy since this was not discussed and understood ahead of time.
SHOULD there be a rule of “no privacy”?.. Maybe! But that’s up to each individual family to establish those types of rules… *ahead *of time. Unless rules are established, discussed, and UNDERSTOOD, they aren’t really “rules”, now are they?
If they aren’t established and understood then the son’s understanding of his “rights” have indeed been violated. From his point of view, he probably will trust his mom less in the future.

Again… maybe those rules SHOULD be established, but considering the entire premise of the OP… it sounds as if they weren’t. Since that is the case here… she probably owes him an apology… and then SHOULD establish rules for the future.

I’m confused as to why a rule needs to be established with the kids at all. They’re kids. They’re constantly doing new, crazy, dangerous, outlandish things that we didn’t expect. If we had to have a rule about everything before we disciplined for it, they’d get away with murder!

Dr. Ray, however, wasn’t discussing his own children, but rather teenagers and their parents in general, and what he said is that they have a right to protection from their own mistakes and bad judgment. "There is a right, in my opinion, that trumps all other rights – the right to safety, and the right to moral safety falls under that umbrella … If these ‘private affairs’ can hurt them, then it is your** foremost duty **to protect them - from themselves! "

One probably doesn’t have to look very far today to find a parent whose child was on drugs, got pregnant, or broke the law, and whose only means of discovering this behavior was “snooping.” What do they have to tell us? Yes, I snooped, and THANK GOD! If it can save a soul or a life or even a lifetime of consequences, by all means, let’s do our duty as parents to protect our minor children.