Reading your kid's journal

[surfinpure]

I do appreciate the other points of view here, but I have to say that my parents had a high moral code and also stressed openness and honesty with me, and I never, ever, EVER went to them with any of the things I’d been doing. Why? I didn’t want to disappoint them. I think the idea that children will approach their parents and confess their sins if only the parents are “open” enough is a modern myth.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I do appreciate the other points of view here, but I have to say that my parents had a high moral code and also stressed openness and honesty with me, and I never, ever, EVER went to them with any of the things I’d been doing. Why? I didn’t want to disappoint them. I think the idea that children will approach their parents and confess their sins if only the parents are “open” enough is a modern myth.

I also never suggested that children will approach their parents and confess their sins.

Kids learn by example more than words, we all know that.
Going back to the OP’s story line - (which I know, she’s already commented back and has resolution on, but it’s the point of this thread, so I’ll stick to it)… the fact that this mother set an *example *of snooping without permission (since rules of privacy were implied) without apologizing for breaking that implied rule will be the underlying lesson that this child learns. Had the mother turned around and said “Hey, I’m sorry I read your journal. I was concerned about your feelings. I should respect your privacy. I’m sorry. However, you do know that what you did was wrong and now that I know you will be punished for it. I think from now on we should establish some different rules around here since you clearly have subverted not only my expectations but have broken the law.”… and then move on from there.
My point was that the apology goes a long way. She did not make the right choice. The ends (finding out about his behavior) still don’t justify the means (snooping).
Plus, a family that has already had issues with older siblings should probably already have had rules or systems in place regarding sneaking out and drinking… for example, such as installing an alarm system on the house so that it’s obvious when doors are opened after a certain time frame. (this is just an example, probably not fool-proof, but you get the idea)
There are other ways of finding out and controlling behavior.

 

[Jay82]

Em - I agree with your statements.

I do appreciate the other points of view here, but I have to say that my parents had a high moral code and also stressed openness and honesty with me, and I never, ever, EVER went to them with any of the things I’d been doing. Why? I didn’t want to disappoint them. I think the idea that children will approach their parents and confess their sins if only the parents are “open” enough is a modern myth.

Same with me to some extent. I definitely didn’t want to disappoint my parents…but that and the fact I didn’t want to compromise my values/morals were the primary reasons I stayed out of trouble. I didn’t have to hide anything from my parents cause I stayed out of trouble by choice, but occasionally I would run into challenging situations at school and what not and I just solved the problem on my own rather than seeking their advice cause I didn’t want them to worry or anything of that sort. Things turned out well in the end anyway.

 

[Kat127]

I do appreciate the other points of view here, but I have to say that my parents had a high moral code and also stressed openness and honesty with me, and I never, ever, EVER went to them with any of the things I’d been doing. Why? I didn’t want to disappoint them. I think the idea that children will approach their parents and confess their sins if only the parents are “open” enough is a modern myth.

I also am not suggesting the kids will go confess everything to their parents. Nor do I think they should. If you are 16 and don’t have at least some stories your parents don’t know about you have much bigger problems than whether or not your parents snoop. At 16, they are two years away from college or the workforce, you need to let them take that judgment out for a test drive at some point.

What I am suggesting when I say kids will be more open with their parents is not “Hey mom, I snuck out and had some beer with my friends last night.” The example I am thinking about is they are at a party that got out of hand and need someone to come get them. I’m thinking about times when they are clearly over their heads and they know it. They know their parents are going to be furious with them but they’ll come get them.

Most kids think when their parents snoop it is because their parents think they are bad/dumb/fill in the blank. Some kids, when their parents already appear to think less of them do everything they can to not give them more examples…even when they clearly need help.

 

[twopekinguys]

You do know that you’re kidding yourself here - if he HAS beat you you’ll almost certainly never get to know about it!

First, that is why I used the word “yet”.

Second, he has learned some of the consequences of his actions when he has tried.

He doesn’t try to pull his shenanigans nearly as often as he used to.

 

[micahmike]

I only read the first page of the thread but will share my experiences.

I would not read my children’s juornal. They have a right to the privacy of their thoughts, whether in their head or recorded ion paper. I intend to raise my children as I was raised, that is:

My parents were open and honest with me.  I knew about drugs and alcohol and sex.  I knew what behaviors were truly dangerous, which were wrong only because they were unlawful or against Church teaching, etc.  I was told from a young age that my parents valued trust and honesty - that they would not violate these, and that they hoped that I would not.  When I was 16 I went out and had a few beers with my friends as a matter of routine.  every single time my parents knew where I was, what I was up to, and how I was getting home.  I never drank to the point of making bad decisions, I had a good time with my pals and a bit of booze at 16, much like I did st 26 and probably will at 36.  I did not lie.  Because of my parents honesty, I knew that pot was not terribly harmful, but also that it could be habit forming and that it often was a gateway drug.  I probably tried it 4 or 5 times in my teen years.  Not an issue.  I never got the "alldrugs are bad and if you do drugs you will DIE!" chat, because my parents respected me and respected the truth.  they knew that without truth there cannot be trust.  I knew, thanks to my parents, that sex was a sacred thing.  Despite the fact that I had a great time out at night and unsupervised, I never had sex with anyone until my wife:)  I certainly faced temptation, but I had the sort of parents I could talk to.  They wouldn't say "you can't see so-and-so any more!" or "you can't stay out late anymore!" or whatever, they'd say "you know, some of the choices you're making are putting you into some dangerous waters, here's how we know..."

I had a great time living my teenage years, they were great times. I certainly wouldn’t trade memories of bonfires in the woods with good frineds and a few beers for memories of late-night movie marathons and Scrabble games. Kids don’t grow up overnite, but neither should they be treated like children until they leave your house IMO. Transition them into adulthood gradually.

 

[Love_Divine]

The journal was out in his room just like it had been all summer. I’m not sure why I read it. I thought I might find out what was going on in his mind regarding a trip he’s taking. Isn’t a parent’s job to use all available means to keep their kids safe?

Snooping through your kid’s stuff is an invasion of his privacy. Journals are supposed to be a safe place where one can put their thoughts and feelings down on paper.

My parents were snoopers when I was a kid and now I don’t tell them anything. There is nothing that they can say or do now that would make want to be open and honest with them because they violated my privacy.

If you want to keep your kids from sneaking out get a security system,. E/ven when not armed, it will still alert you if a door, or window is open. Some will even let you put a sensor on your liquor/gun cabinet that will send you a text alert to your cell phone when it’s opened

 

[Tiffany_M_S]

In my opinion, yes. Reading your child’s diary is a heavy breach of trust, and while it is not acceptable for him to go out and drink, everyone needs a ‘place’ to call their own, and you have invaded his.

Right now, you need to understand that your son is feeling hurt that you have done this. It is probably very painful. Writing in that diary was theraputic, and you may have ruined that for him. It also shows him that you cannot be trusted. He probably feels that he cannot talk to you.

In a way, writing in a diary is like talking to a special friend that will never judge you. It is confiding in someone. Many people do this so that they can have a little piece of mind. Now, he no longer has that. In a way, you have taken that away from him. You have also proven to him that he cannot talk to you about his problems. Reading his diary was not only wrong, but a big mistake. I just hope you can mend the tear that you have created in your relationship between you and your son.

A child should never have to hide his secrets from his parent. You may have given him cause to do so, which can be very damaging for the child.

Yes, drinking is bad. No, he should not have done it. But what you did is no better. If I were you, I would swallow your pride and say that you’re sorry before it’s too late, and this gets even more out of hand than it already has.

Trust is earned, and you will have to earn it back. Just because what your son did was wrong didn’t make what you did right.

 

[surfinpure]

shaking head I give up. But I still say right to safety trumps right to privacy, and a parent’s duty to protect his children sometimes requires invading so-called privacy.

I’m guessing if the mother had “snooped” around her son’s closet and found cocaine, the discussion might be going a little differently?

 

[oxymom]

I think I should have directed my question to people who have actually been raising teenagers for a few years. A little perspective helps.

 

[Chocoholic]

Whether or not you should read your kids journal depends on the kid, how old the kid is, and the situation. I can think of two situations in which a parent read a journal. In one case, the parent was right. In the other, the parent was wrong.

There was a little nine-year old girl who was being sexually abused. Her mother, concerned about her daughter’s sudden change in behavior, read her daughter’s diary. She was able to put a stop to the abuse, because she read the kid’s diary. Clearly, this mother was right.

The other scenario happened to me when I was 16. I was a really good kid. I never really did anything all that bad, had my own job, got top grades, the works. I had nothing to hide, seeing as the worst I ever did was talk back. My mom read my diary. There was absolutely no cause for concern when she did this, and all she found out was that I was frusterated with her and dad for treating me like a five year old (I still say I was right about that one). Had my mom done this out of legitimate concern for me, she would have sat down and talked to me about how I felt, but that didn’t happen. Her motivation was that she was curious. In the end, she didn’t like what she found. She told all of her friends and our relatives what she had read, and made fun of my private thoughts for many months. This led to my devising a complicated code to preserve my privacy. I still use that code. Of course, I wasn’t writing about my non-existant escapades. I was venting, which is probably why I came out of that house sane.

So should you have read your kids journal? I don’t know. I don’t know him, how he was acting when you read it, your situation, etc. I will say this. Excessive snooping will not alert you to all problems or make your kids behave. Kids aren’t stupid (they just think they’re immortal). They’ll find out what you’re up to eventually and find out a way to circumvent your efforts to spy, especially if you tell them what you’re up to. As for whether they’ll lose respect for you…that all depends. If you did it out of concern, found something serious out, and thus prevented your child from being hurt, your kid will eventually appreciate it (they’ll hate you in the short run, but they’ll get over it). If you act like a jerk because it’s “your house, your rules”, your kids will lose respect for you permanently or until you earn it back. (That wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular. That’s just a general statement).

 

[Norseman82]

Gee, and I thought this kid lived in a home, not an institution (and moreover an institution one is placed in only after one has proven to be mentally ill, and severely at that!)

Remember a 16-year-old is nearly an adult. They are old enough to drive, have sex (at least with other minors), own and use a gun. They are old enough in some places to get married without parental consent, drink, smoke and even join the army.

There is a sliding scale of independence and maturity as a child approaches adulthood that is appropriately dealt with by a sliding scale of autonomy. You can’t exert the same type and level of parental control on a 16 year old as a 10 year old - not unless you expect them to be as unable to cope with the outside world when they leave in a year or two as a 10-year-old is.

My parents were parents - good, loving, quite strict - but they gave us at least some degree of the privacy and autonomy which every late-teenage child needs. They weren’t acting like jailers or nuthouse warders, and accordingly we didn’t act like criminals or lunatics.

It is an expression meaning “just who is in charge here?”.

My apologies, I thought it was an anaolgy that was readily understandable.

Remember, it was the son who did an illegal activity.

 

[Norseman82]

What a backward way to approach parenting.

Unfortunately, here on CAF, I’ve seen a LOT of backward thinking about different things.

 

[Norseman82]

If you act like a jerk because it’s “your house, your rules”, your kids will lose respect for you permanently or until you earn it back. (That wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular. That’s just a general statement).

At the same time, there is a difference between using “my house my rules” to keep a kid from doing wrong and protecting him and stopping him from doing illegal activity and using the line as an excuse to be abusive. After all, it’s not like she was going through his stuff searching for money to pay for alcohol or drugs and finding he was keeping receipts to disprove a false accusation of being a financial drain to his family (true incident from when I was a teenager).

 

[LilyM]

It is an expression meaning “just who is in charge here?”.

My apologies, I thought it was an anaolgy that was readily understandable.

Remember, it was the son who did an illegal activity.

Newsflash - most people, adult and teen, have broken and do break the law in all sorts of ways. Doesn’t mean their privacy can be violated.

That child could only be prosecuted for underage drinking, for example, IF the police caught him in the act or had ‘probable cause’, or whatever the relevant legal terminology is, for suspecting he’d done so.

They’d have no right, absent that independent ‘probable cause’, to ransack his bedroom and read his private diary. And if they DID, the ‘evidence’ of his diary, when obtained without their having any other genuine grounds for suspicion of illegal activity (and it doesn’t sound like there were other grounds here), would be thrown out of court. Being a juvenile wouldn’t change that one bit.

All of this is so BECAUSE we recognise a right to privacy - on the part of juveniles as well as adults - that cannot be violated except on a strong and well-founded suspicion of illegal activity having occurred.

There’s nothing in the fact of being a parent that totally obliterates this right to privacy for a juvenile. Remember police have obligations to diligently investigate suspected illegal activity, and can potentially be prosecuted for being slack in their duty if they don’t do so. In that sense their position is similar (although less onerous) than that of parents.

 

[Norseman82]

Newsflash - most people, adult and teen, have broken and do break the law in all sorts of ways. Doesn’t mean their privacy can be violated.

That child could only be prosecuted for underage drinking, for example, IF the police caught him in the act or had ‘probable cause’, or whatever the relevant legal terminology is, for suspecting he’d done so.

They’d have no right, absent that independent ‘probable cause’, to ransack his bedroom and read his private diary. And if they DID, the ‘evidence’ of his diary, when obtained without their having any other genuine grounds for suspicion of illegal activity (and it doesn’t sound like there were other grounds here), would be thrown out of court. Being a juvenile wouldn’t change that one bit.

All of this is so BECAUSE we recognise a right to privacy - on the part of juveniles as well as adults - that cannot be violated except on a strong and well-founded suspicion of illegal activity having occurred.

There’s nothing in the fact of being a parent that totally obliterates this right to privacy for a juvenile. Remember police have obligations to diligently investigate suspected illegal activity, and can potentially be prosecuted for being slack in their duty if they don’t do so. In that sense their position is similar (although less onerous) than that of parents.

Newsflash - try invoking “constitutional rights” with your parents when they are disciplining you and see how far that gets you. (Or at least with mine, if you can hop into a TARDIS and go back in time 35 years). Remember, this was not about turning the kid ovr to the police but rather a matter of “family discipline”.

 

[yellowbird]

I have an 18 year old son - and a 14 year old daughter … If I were very very concerned and saw signs of drinking, drug use or other risky behaviors … I might read the journal → But there is NO WAY I’d admit that to my kid. But short of a huge waving red flag signaling a big problem… I would not read it.

My approach to parenting is very similar to micahmike’s parents… I trust my kids… I guess witnessing them making good decisions up till this point, they’ve obviously earned it. When I suspect they’ve done something wrong and ask them, they DO admit to it, right away. I know it’s hard to believe… sometimes I wonder why they don’t just lie to me… but they don’t. They fess up and take the consequences. And NO, I am not one of those permissive parents who turn a blind eye…

but they are good kids… not perfect, but good. So I trust them and allow them to have their own life. I don’t micro mannage at all. I want them to become RESPONSIBLE adults… if I control them up until they walk out that door for college or whatever, they will not have developed their own self control.

To the OP ~ You sound like a great, caring Mom. I think there is no real right and wrong here… as parents we’re all trying to make our way. Best wishes to your son on his upcoming trip!!

 

[surfinpure]

I have an 18 year old son - and a 14 year old daughter … If I were very very concerned and saw signs of drinking, drug use or other risky behaviors … I might read the journal → But there is NO WAY I’d admit that to my kid. But short of a huge waving red flag signaling a big problem… I would not read it.

My approach to parenting is very similar to micahmike’s parents… I trust my kids… I guess witnessing them making good decisions up till this point, they’ve obviously earned it. When I suspect they’ve done something wrong and ask them, they DO admit to it, right away. I know it’s hard to believe… sometimes I wonder why they don’t just lie to me… but they don’t. They fess up and take the consequences. And NO, I am not one of those permissive parents who turn a blind eye…

but they are good kids… not perfect, but good. So I trust them and allow them to have their own life. I don’t micro mannage at all. I want them to become RESPONSIBLE adults… if I control them up until they walk out that door for college or whatever, they will not have developed their own self control.

To the OP ~ You sound like a great, caring Mom. I think there is no real right and wrong here… as parents we’re all trying to make our way. Best wishes to your son on his upcoming trip!!

Now that makes sense!

 

[PatriceA]

I think I should have directed my question to people who have actually been raising teenagers for a few years. A little perspective helps.

Many of the teenagers or those not too far from their teens have offered you their perspective and opinion on the matter. You should go back and reread some of them. After all, your original intent in reading your son’s journal was to know some of his thoughts and here are some young people offering an insight into the situation. You shouldn’t dismiss the opinions and advice just because some are not raising teenagers themselves yet. After all we were all teenagers at one time and I certainly can remember that point of view as well as being a parent now. I may only have an 11 year old, but there were a few of my daughter’s classmates that got caught drinking a few months back.

 

[twopekinguys]

shaking head I give up. But I still say right to safety trumps right to privacy, and a parent’s duty to protect his children sometimes requires invading so-called privacy.

I’m guessing if the mother had “snooped” around her son’s closet and found cocaine, the discussion might be going a little differently?

I’m with you 100%.

People seem to forget that small things lead to big things.

First it is sneaking out, then it is sneaking out and drinking. After that gets old, then it is sneaking out, drinking, stealing a car, etc. etc. etc.

The kid will get over being mad, he won’t get over being dead.