Reading your kid's journal

[micahmike]

There was no abuse. I lived an ideal childhood, with God-loving, moral, involved, understanding, authoritative (not authoritarian) parents who tried to teach me moderation. I was also an A-student, had a part-time teaching job from age 15 on, and was considered by all to be of above average maturity. None of the risk factors you describe applied to me – I simply discovered that I LIKED drinking! Imagine that.

Where have you found statistics saying that alcohol abuse is primarily a problem in impoverished families? The worst high school (and college) drinkers I knew had married parents, attended Jesuit schools, and lived in wealthy neighborhoods. My poorer friends’ parents didn’t buy them cars, or at least not as early, and they couldn’t afford as many “substances.”

I have seen studies (but cannot find them at the momment) indicating that while the liklihood that a person uses alcohol increases in proportion to both income and education level (that is, the more money you make and the better education you have, the more likely you are to drink), crippling alcoholism is most common in the lowest income and education groups.

I did come accross this interesting study while searchin though: “Light and moderate drinking saves more lives in England and Wales than are lost through the abuse of alcohol.”
See:
Britton, A., and McPherson, K. Mortality in England and Wales attributable to current alcohol consumption. Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, 2001, 55(6), 383-388; Reuters, Alcohol Cuts England/Wales Deaths by Two Percent (May 7, 2001)

Surfin’, I liked drinking too. Still do. What do you suppose was the reason that you drank to excess and made bad choices while under the influence while I and my peers didn’t?

 

[LilyM]

If I were the only person I knew in this situation, I’d consider myself a lucky outlier. I’m not, I’m surrounded by others in similar circumstances.

Also, I’m not certain that moderate cigar smoking (one per day) has been shown to reduce life expectancy, has it? I am aware of course that cigar smoking slightly increases the risks of cancers of the head and neck, but I seem to recall hearing that moderate cigar smoking did not have a statistically significant effect on life expectancy.

Not so - remember a cigar takes a heck of a lot longer to smoke than a cigarette, so in smoking one cigar you’re exposing your system to the equivalent of numerous cigarettes’ worth of carcinogenic and otherwise harmful chemicals - unfiltered, unlike most cigarettes, and some of them occuring in much higher quantities in cigars than in cigarettes. Daily cigar smoking is not considered moderate - most cigar smokers don’t smoke daily.

The only difference is the TYPE of cancers you’re more likely to get, but cigar smoking is no safer overall as an alternative to cigarettes.

Source: quitsmokingsupport.com/cigars.htm

 

[micahmike]

One thing I’ve noticed at work as a professional, is that the kids who were kind of “dorks” or whatever back when we were teens - the goody-two-shoes, don’t drink don’t smoke type, never really caught up in the professional world. This I find to be very counter-intuitive. I always figured (and was told) that eventually, the kids who had everything, popularity, good looks, athletic prowess, money, would end up crashing down and the ugly ducklings and wallflowers would have their day. My experience in the professional world indicates otherwise. Being smart and confident and good looking is more important in many cases than being the biggest brain in your given field. I don’t entertain a lot of clients who say “yeah, I’m glad I stayed on the straight and narrow through school”, much more often they’ll relate stories of what hellions they were. Might not exactly be related to the thread, but I have seen that in business, drinkers do better than abstainers. Nobody wants to do lunch with the guy who’s having an iced tea

/not remarkably good looking, parents were growing a fortune but were still very much working class when I was young, had average athletic skills, is an outlier in that regard.

 

[surfinpure]

I apologize to the OP; I fear we’ve taken the thread off topic. We were discussing reading a kid’s journal?

 

[micahmike]

Daily cigar smoking is not considered moderate - most cigar smokers don’t smoke daily.

The article you linked to seems to rfer to more than 5 cigars per day as heavy use (and of greater health risk). 24% of cigar smokers smoke 5 or more cigars per day! (according to you link)

… but cigar smoking is no safer overall as an alternative to cigarettes.

The article you linked to says otherwise.

Do you have any information specifically relating to the lifespan of moderate cigar-smokers vs. non-smokers? I am aware that smoking cigars increases the risk of certain diseases, but iirc paradoxally there is no decrease in lifespan that has been linked to moderate cigar smoking.

 

[micahmike]

I apologize to the OP; I fear we’ve taken the thread off topic. We were discussing reading a kid’s journal?

Indeed.

I’ll reiterate my stance in an effort to get back on topic: A person’s (even a young person’s) thoughts and feelings are their own property. The fact that these thoughts are written down does not make it okay for others (even parents) to intrude on them without just cause. This of course does not apply to those thoughts that are put out for public consumption - such as poetry that is published or song lyrics that are played for the public. A person’s thoughts, feelings and experiences should remain their own until they choose to share them.

 

[LilyM]

The article you linked to seems to rfer to more than 5 cigars per day as heavy use (and of greater health risk). 24% of cigar smokers smoke 5 or more cigars per day! (according to you link)

Yes they do, and those 24% are heavy smokers - five cigars a day is the equivalent of smoking a pack a day of cigarettes. You’d hardly call a pack a day puffer a moderate smoker by any stretch!

So great-great-gran’s 1 cigar a day is the equivalent of at least 4 or 5 cigarettes a day - I don’t know whether you’d call that ‘moderate’ or not.

In any event, it means she was cutting nearly an hour off her life expectancy compared to a non smoker EACH DAY. Or two weeks for every year she smoked. Since each cigarette smoked is the equivalent of about 11 minutes off your life expectancy compared to a non-smoker.

To do the final math, great-great-granny could potentially have lived 3 years longer without the lifelong cigar habit and hit the big 110. Nothing to be sneezed at.

Do you have any information specifically relating to the lifespan of moderate cigar-smokers vs. non-smokers? I am aware that smoking cigars increases the risk of certain diseases, but iirc paradoxally there is no decrease in lifespan that has been linked to moderate cigar smoking.

Look, I didn’t mention her lifespan specifically as if it alone was a critical factor. It was just shorthand for saying she enjoyed excellent health despite her smoking - which surely you must agree is far from normal for even smokers of 4-5 cigarettes (or 1 cigar) a day.

 

[rayne89]

I’ll reiterate my stance in an effort to get back on topic: A person’s (even a young person’s) thoughts and feelings are their own property. The fact that these thoughts are written down does not make it okay for others (even parents) to intrude on them without just cause. This of course does not apply to those thoughts that are put out for public consumption - such as poetry that is published or song lyrics that are played for the public. A person’s thoughts, feelings and experiences should remain their own until they choose to share them.

I agree. I have my daughter’s passwords to everything, and I know she write in notebooks. She knows I can look at anything at anytime but I have told her I will only do so if her I have something in her behavior indicates I have reason to.

 

[Catholic90]

One thing I’ve noticed at work as a professional, is that the kids who were kind of “dorks” or whatever back when we were teens - the goody-two-shoes, don’t drink don’t smoke type, never really caught up in the professional world. This I find to be very counter-intuitive. I always figured (and was told) that eventually, the kids who had everything, popularity, good looks, athletic prowess, money, would end up crashing down and the ugly ducklings and wallflowers would have their day. My experience in the professional world indicates otherwise. Being smart and confident and good looking is more important in many cases than being the biggest brain in your given field. I don’t entertain a lot of clients who say “yeah, I’m glad I stayed on the straight and narrow through school”, much more often they’ll relate stories of what hellions they were. Might not exactly be related to the thread, but I have seen that in business, drinkers do better than abstainers. Nobody wants to do lunch with the guy who’s having an iced tea

At many jobs that will get you fired. If you need that at lunch, perhaps YOU have more issues than you are willing to admit to. Think about it.

/not remarkably good looking, parents were growing a fortune but were still very much working class when I was young, had average athletic skills, is an outlier in that regard.

What a bunch of Bogus Shat.

 

[LilyM]

Micah, yes, sadly, drinkers often are seen as more ‘sociable’ and hence may do better in their careers. Liars also often prosper, as long as they’re not caught out. And thieves. And sycophants (as long the falsity of their flattery isn’t discovered).

None of this is going to matter diddly squat when you’re standing before God on judgement day.

Do you really imagine you’re going to say ‘Yes, Lord, I abused alcohol/overcharged clients/lied outrageously to my superiors at work - but it was for the sake of my career, I wouldn’t have got anywhere without it!’ And He’s going to say ‘Well then, my son, that makes it all perfectly all right - come right into heaven!’ :nope:

 

[cheerio_ninja]

shaking head I give up. But I still say right to safety trumps right to privacy, and a parent’s duty to protect his children sometimes requires invading so-called privacy.

I’m guessing if the mother had “snooped” around her son’s closet and found cocaine, the discussion might be going a little differently?

As a current teenager (18) I can assure you that snooping in my closet is different than reading my diary. My closet is not a place for my private thoughts and feelings, which I will share with my parents, sometimes. My closet is full of clothing, my clothes aren’t private and neither is the place where they are kept.

The word vomit above is trying to say that snooping in a diary is different than snooping in a closet.

My parents do trust me. And I don’t give them a reason to not trust me. I don’t tell them everything, I tell them what they need to know. Where I’m going, when I’ll be back, and who I’ll be there with. They don’t need to know what celebrity I currently think is cute, or if I’m having a tough time getting along with one of my classmates.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Micah, yes, sadly, drinkers often are seen as more ‘sociable’ and hence may do better in their careers. Liars also often prosper, as long as they’re not caught out. And thieves. And sycophants (as long the falsity of their flattery isn’t discovered).

None of this is going to matter diddly squat when you’re standing before God on judgement day.

Do you really imagine you’re going to say ‘Yes, Lord, I abused alcohol/overcharged clients/lied outrageously to my superiors at work - but it was for the sake of my career, I wouldn’t have got anywhere without it!’ And He’s going to say ‘Well then, my son, that makes it all perfectly all right - come right into heaven!’ :nope:

Having a couple of beers and drinking socially at work is not abusing alcohol. Sheesh, sometimes I wonder if this is a protestant forum.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I agree. I have my daughter’s passwords to everything, and I know she write in notebooks. She knows I can look at anything at anytime but I have told her I will only do so if her I have something in her behavior indicates I have reason to.

See… this is exactly what I’m talking about!
She has a sense of privacy… you’ve communicated that you will respect her privacy… and have communicated that if “behavior warrants” you will do what is necessary to protect her.

It’s all communicated and agreed upon ahead of time… I like it!

 

[micahmike]

Micah, yes, sadly, drinkers often are seen as more ‘sociable’ and hence may do better in their careers. Liars also often prosper, as long as they’re not caught out. And thieves. And sycophants (as long the falsity of their flattery isn’t discovered).

None of this is going to matter diddly squat when you’re standing before God on judgement day.

Do you really imagine you’re going to say ‘Yes, Lord, I abused alcohol/overcharged clients/lied outrageously to my superiors at work - but it was for the sake of my career, I wouldn’t have got anywhere without it!’ And He’s going to say ‘Well then, my son, that makes it all perfectly all right - come right into heaven!’ :nope:

Why did you choose to speak about alcohol abuse when I made it clear that I was talking about responsible drinking this whole time?

Also, there was another person who responded to me (rather vile-ly, so I won’t quote him) seemingly indicating that non-drinkers are not at a disadvantage in business. Read a little bit, chum. It is a significant problem for some abstainers.

 

[Norseman82]

On a humorous note,does anyone read the comic strip “Zits”? The strip this past week is related to this very topic:

arcamax.com/zits/s-757369-181499

arcamax.com/zits/s-757370-516096

arcamax.com/zits/s-757736-758990

arcamax.com/zits/s-758130-574257

arcamax.com/zits/s-758378-989412

arcamax.com/zits/s-758563-447315

 

[Norseman82]

The word vomit above .

That type of disrespect to one’s elders is not appropriate for a Catholic forum.

They don’t need to know what celebrity I currently think is cute, or if I’m having a tough time getting along with one of my classmates.

Agreed on the “cute celebrity” point, but on the other hand, if the “tough time getting along with one of my classmates” indicates a bullying problem, please keep in mind that there have been students who commit suicide because they have been bullied too much, so knowing that piece of information could help save a life.

 

[cheerio_ninja]

That type of disrespect to one’s elders is not appropriate for a Catholic forum.

Agreed on the “cute celebrity” point, but on the other hand, if the “tough time getting along with one of my classmates” indicates a bullying problem, please keep in mind that there have been students who commit suicide because they have been bullied too much, so knowing that piece of information could help save a life.

Ummmm, that was referring to my own previous paragraph. It looked longer in the box when I first typed it. Would you prefer ‘word salad’? I meant no disrespect for my elders.

Disagreement with classmate doesn’t indicate bullying. I had a mutual agreement with a classmate that we had nothing in common, when we had to work together it caused some difficulty. There was no bullying involved, I thought we handled it quite maturely.

 

[LilyM]

Why did you choose to speak about alcohol abuse when I made it clear that I was talking about responsible drinking this whole time?

Also, there was another person who responded to me (rather vile-ly, so I won’t quote him) seemingly indicating that non-drinkers are not at a disadvantage in business. Read a little bit, chum. It is a significant problem for some abstainers.

I’m sorry, I didn’t read all of that post, it looked like it was just quoting you.

I work in a profession where alcohol unfortunately features heavily, and I can easily see that those who have a bevvy at lunch are not as clear-headed in the afternoon as those who don’t.

So we’ll change the scenario a little and ask you to imagine yourself saying ‘yes, Lord, I clouded my mind with alcohol at times when I should for the sake of doing my best at work have stayed sober, but everyone else did it and I wanted to fit in’ - doesn’t change the point. And I don’t imagine it will change God’s reaction either.

 

[cheerio_ninja]

Norseman82,

Sorry, I missed the ‘if’ in front of your statement about bullying. If a disagreement is bullying then of course parents need to be notified. In this situation it wasn’t.

 

[Catholic90]

Why did you choose to speak about alcohol abuse when I made it clear that I was talking about responsible drinking this whole time?

Also, there was another person who responded to me (rather vile-ly, so I won’t quote him) seemingly indicating that non-drinkers are not at a disadvantage in business. Read a little bit, chum. It is a significant problem for some abstainers.

I would not do business with someone who chose to drink at lunch. Their thought processes are not as clear and their reasoning can be clouded. Yes, you might “fit in” at lunch, but at what cost? How sad for you.

Again, if you feel you need to drink alcohol at lunch to “fit in”, then perhaps you have bigger issues you need to address.

You can only reason away so much, Mike. Most alcoholics have a bevy of excuses and think they are being “responsible social drinkers”. If you need this alcohol to do business, you are not responsible.