"Real" Christians don't sin?

[SemperJase]

In another thread someone said:

Jesus has taught me that Christians who know God don’t sin.

Is this evangelical teaching these days?

I can understand how OSAS would claim this. After all, if you can’t sin, you can’t lose your salvation. Doesn’t seem scriptural though.

 

[Tonks40]

This is interesting to me, also…but then, my understanding of the evangelical world is sort-of perplexing…

…interested in seeing the comments.

 

[LittleRose]

Yes, many protestants teach this, at least when it comes to serious things like addictions, anger management problems, pornography, and the like.

I don’t know if they include white lies, and minor acts of selfishness…

 

[Jeanette_L]

I think that in the “Fundamentalist” circles, they have a tendency to think that habitual sin is not a “fruit” of a person who is truly born again or saved. They use the parable of the seed falling on different ground and taking root differently. And of course it depends on what tradition you come from which would determine what that sin might look like that would make you not a true Christian. Some it would be as simple as smoking, going to a theatre, going to a pub…some would just consider the more serious sins like sexual sin, murder … Some do believe that you can backslide into sin from a state of salvation, and sever your fellowship with God without actually losing your salvation.

There are two different camps when it comes to salvation. Some believe in eternal security, or once saved, always saved. They would be your Baptists, Presbyterians and I believe Lutherans although I am fuzzy on the Lutherans, and then any of the InterDenominationals and the NonDenominationals that grew out from those.

The older Pentecostal churches, such as Pentecostal Holiness, Church of God, Assemblies of God, Nazerine, Bretheren … which mostly came from the Wesley traditions, as did the Methodists, did not believe in eternal security, they believed you could backslide into serious sin and lose your salvation if not repentant. But some of those (not all) even today do not stress the potential loss of salvation because of sin the way they used to. It all tends to get watered down in the current feel good Christianity that’s going on out there.

There’s not much of a call to repentance in most churches the way they used to. It’s certainly very sad.

This is just from my wanderings in the Christian world over the last few decades. It tends to make your head swim. :whacky:

 

[thistle]

SemperJase:

In another thread someone said:

Jesus has taught me that Christians who know God don’t sin.

Is this evangelical teaching these days?

I can understand how OSAS would claim this. After all, if you can’t sin, you can’t lose your salvation. Doesn’t seem scriptural though.

Be careful. This was said by Giver in a thread started by himself. He is a self proclaimed prophet and a delusional guy who is against the Catholic Church. Well actually he is against all churches.

 

[Douay-Rheims]

SemperJase:

In another thread someone said:

Is this evangelical teaching these days?

I can understand how OSAS would claim this. After all, if you can’t sin, you can’t lose your salvation. Doesn’t seem scriptural though.

Yep, the whole “I’m Christian and can do no wrong” bit. It is the same old Protestant bologna. I truly believe this type of thought is what is wrong with western society. “I’m saved! So, now I can do what ever I want because I can’t lose my salvation. Jesus has covered my dung heap.” I truly wish and pray that these Protestants will one day step back and examine this psychosis they call Theology.

 

[montanaman]

I spent a brief time at “Bibleforums” (or something) and I was astounded at some of the things I read. There was one thread where the justifications for masturbation were comprehensive. Some of these guys gave the usual evangelical line about having a personal relationship with Jesus, yadda yadda, but, “Sure, as long as I don’t LUST, then masturbating is perfectly okay. It’s just a release.”

So, in one sense, they’re right–they don’t sin. It’s easy when you redefine what sin is…

 

[VociMike]

LittleRose:

Yes, many protestants teach this, at least when it comes to serious things like addictions, anger management problems, pornography, and the like.

But don’t they at the same time refuse to recognize a distinction between sin that is mortal and other sin? Don’t they regard all sin as mortal (before being saved, that is)?

 

[montanaman]

VociMike:

But don’t they at the same time refuse to recognize a distinction between sin that is mortal and other sin? Don’t they regard all sin as mortal (before being saved, that is)?

Yup.

 

[VociMike]

I have seen a related belief, which is that they are perfect here on earth, even though they still sin and still are predisposed to sin. They cannot see any irony or inconsistency in their position, but simply insist that the bible has declared that they are perfect right now.

 

[Jeanette_L]

VociMike:

I have seen a related belief, which is that they are perfect here on earth, even though they still sin and still are predisposed to sin. They cannot see any irony or inconsistency in their position, but simply insist that the bible has declared that they are perfect right now.

It has to do with putting on the Righteousness of God. They know they are sinful in their nature, but they believe that Christ’s atonement has “covered” them and that all God sees when he looks at them is “Christ’s Righteousness” while they are in the process of sanctification, which means that their nature is being transformed into the nature of Christ.

They do have a tendency to believe that at the moment of conversion, or being born again, that they have had such a drastic transformation in their nature already, that most mortal type sins in their “old nature” will disappear, they will immediately no longer have a desire to participate in them and have been given the power to overcome them already.

Now, we do have to be careful, because not even the majority of Evangelicals believe that this being covered with the *Righteousness of God * gives a person a license to sin. But, unfortunately, this belief system leaves a HUGE loophole and then a lot of confusion down the road for someone who has a problem with recurring sin and can’t find victory over it. They then tend to question whether their conversion ever was genuine. It can be a very nasty trap.

This is also why we see a flood of ministers now dealing with Generational Curses, because they recognize that there are now a multitude of Christians who have been struggling all along with recurring sin and this is a way of explaining this within their system of belief.

 

[havemercy]

Oh dear. Oh boy. People are silly!

 

[puzzleannie]

Off hand I would say someone who believes this does not spend much time around real Christians. Christ came to call sinners to repentence, ours is a Church for sinners, as he told us it is the sick who need a physician, not the healthy. If you are perfect and sinless either you are the Blessed Virgin Mary or you are delusional.

 

[Eden]

When I was reading the document from the Council of Carthage on New Advent, I came across these quotes which fit here:

That not only humble but also true is that voice of the Saints: “If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves.” IT also seemed good that as St. John the Apostle says, “If we shall say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us,” whosoever thinks that this should be so understood as to mean that out of humility, we ought to say that we have sin, and not because it is really so, let him be anathema. For the Apostle goes on to add, “But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all iniquity,” where it is sufficiently clear that this is said not only of humility but also truly. For the Apostle might have said, “If we shall say we have no sins we shall extoll ourselves, and humility shall have no place in us;” but when he says, “we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” he sufficiently intimates that he who affirmed that he had no sin would speak not that which is true but that which is false.

That the Saints say with accuracy, “Forgive us our trespasses.” LIKEWISE also it seemed good, that whoever wished that these words of the Lord’s prayer, when we say, “Forgive us our trespasses” are said by the saints out of humility and not in truth let them be anathema. For who would make a lying prayer, not to men but to God? Who would say with his lips that he wished his sins forgiven him, but in his heart that he had no sins to be forgiven.

 

[inJESUS]

don’t we read in the Bible that even the righteous commits 7 sins per day? which means we all sin and need repentance every day.

 

[Milliardo]

This is all I can say about it: OSAS redefines the meaning of sin from an act that cuts you off from God, to an act that somewhat, and maybe, might cut you off from God. This redefinition of sin as a vague, almost amoral act dooms OSAS, since what is taught clearly goes against what the Bible and historic Christianity sees sin to be.

 

[AquinasXVI]

When a friend from college busted out with this in one of our conversations, it completely blew my mind to pieces. I didn’t even know how to accept something like that it left me speechless.

I really hoped he was kidding. And I realized he really believed it. Hopefully that arrogance is rare and far between for everyone’s sake.

in XT.

 

[MaryD7]

This whole thread fills me with sadness. As a convert to RC from Baptist, it pains me to see all those in the Protestant faith lumped together by misinformed posters. The people I was raised with, including my parents, were not a bunch of backwoods morons who took their faith lightly.

YES, they do believe that once they are saved the souls are washed as white as snow. But they also fully understand that they are sinners, and always will be sinners. They do believe in the mercy of God but also deeply believe in repentence (not in the confessional but through prayer). I would suggest getting to know some Protestants and what they are truly about and what they believe before making blanket statements.

And, by the way, I say the same thing to Protestants when they start in on the Catholic religion.
Jeanette L:

This is also why we see a flood of ministers now dealing with Generational Curses, because they recognize that there are now a multitude of Christians who have been struggling all along with recurring sin and this is a way of explaining this within their system of belief.

I think you are speaking of generational sins which is a true thing. People who sexually abused as children are more prone to becoming the abuser as an adult. That does not take away (or excues away) their sin. They are responsible for all the sins they commit.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

“Jesus has taught me that Christians who know God don’t sin.”

I have never seen this taught in any evangelical systematic theology, ever. It is a form of gnosticism that seperates the “new creature” from the “sin nature”. People like Giver, claim that it is not the new creation that is sinning, but is in fact the “old man”.

Sanctification also occurs in Scripture in past (1 Cor. 1:2; 6:19; Acts 20:32), present (Rom. 6:22; 2 Cor. 7:1), and future tense (Eph. 5:25-27; 1 Thess. 3:12,13). In other words, we have been sanctified, we are being sanctified, and some day we shall fully be sanctified. The sanctifying process begins at new birth and continues on to our final glorification. Past-tense sanctification has commonly been called positional sanctification. Present-tense sanctification has been commonly called progressive or experiential sanctification. The tendency by some is to understand past-tense sanctification as just positional truth, and then proceed to live as though it really isn’t true. The consequences are tragic. These people will spend the rest of their lives trying to become somebody they already are. Positional sanctification is real truth. We are not trying to become children of God; we are children of God who are becoming like Christ. Progressive sanctification is the process of working out our salvation by faith, that which God has already worked in. It is the process of conforming to His image.

Focusing on past-tense sanctification at the expense of progressive sanctification can also lead to serious errors, such as the concept of sinless perfection. This is nothing more than a denial of sin. “If we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 Jn. 1:8). It is important to realize that “having sin” and “being sin” are two totally different concepts. The other extreme, that of focusing on progressive sanctification at the expense of positional sanctification, leads to a denial of who we really are.

ficm.org/questions/do_christians_still_have_a_sin_n.htm

an example of the error,

I dear saint, a faithful husband and father, came home one day to learn that his wife had run off with a holiness preacher. The Satanic preacher told the lady that anything she did with him was not sin because he was sinless.

What is at the heart of the entire sanctification doctrine? Answer: Pride. I find that holiness people are arrogant and proud of their status. They talk down to those who do not teach their filthy heresy.

blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/perfectioncult.htm

google.com/search?hl=en&q=entire+sanctification+doctrine&btnG=Google+Search

google.com/search?hl=en&q=sinless+perfection&btnG=Google+Search

roots sources of this error
gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/perfect.html

google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=Pentecostal+Wesley+Christian+Perfection+entire+sanctification&spell=1

 

[Church_Militant]

inJESUS:

don’t we read in the Bible that even the righteous commits 7 sins per day? which means we all sin and need repentance every day.

I had forgotten this one! Proverbs 24:16 For a just man shall fall seven times and shall rise again: but the wicked shall fall down into evil.