Real life philosophical Zika situation

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That’s the point I’m trying to make. My wife is already pregnant. She can’t get double pregnant. I’m not trying to have cake, the purpose of the condom is to prevent Zika transmission, I’m obviously not gaining any contraceptive benefit from it.
But the condom is being used to deliberately interrupt/disorder the natural ends of the sex act. The treatment isn’t medical so much as it’s the deliberate misuse of the sex act to avoid certain consequences. That is, the “treatment” itself is to deliberately prevent the sex act from being completed in a manner consistent with its end.
 
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If she isn’t pregnant why would it be used in the first place?
 
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More interesting questions for people against condoms:
  1. If there was a Zika vaccine but it had a contraceptive side effect, would it be permissible?
  2. What about a drug a woman could take that would prevent Zika transmission to the fetus, however if used when not pregnant had a contraceptive side effect?
(1) Yes.

(2) Yes, it’s permissible for the pregnant woman. As described, there’s no medical purpose for a non-pregnant woman.
 
To the people saying just get a blood test
I said there is a blood test.
A blood test works when you have symptoms and it can help provide immediate diagnosis.
It is a disease after all. As is Dengue sometimes in the same areas
 
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That’s the point I’m trying to make. My wife is already pregnant. She can’t get double pregnant.
The point that the Church is trying to make isn’t pregnancy, it’s openness to the natural order of the marital act. Sometimes, the marital act leads to new life. However, the Church doesn’t assert that every marital act result in a new life. Rather, the Church asserts that, in order that the integrity of the marital act remains intact, every act of marital intercourse should respect that integrity.
  • If there was a Zika vaccine but it had a contraceptive side effect, would it be permissible?
  • What about a drug a woman could take that would prevent Zika transmission to the fetus, however if used when not pregnant had a contraceptive side effect?
The answer to these is the same:

The therapy would be able to be used licitly as long as its contraceptive effect weren’t being utilized.
 
By your logic someone with a genetic anomaly is also justified in using condoms.

The medical advice for you is clearly abstinence.
Just out of curiosity, would if be sinful for someone with a highly heritable genetic abnormality to have children knowing that the children will have a high likelihood of also having this abnormality? For example, if someone knew that any children they had would have a high likelihood of having hemophilia, would it be sinful for them to have children?
 
What grants us any second of health or life, for any our children in the womb,at birth and born.?
What are you looking for? Certainty? Forever?
 
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Theo520:
By your logic someone with a genetic anomaly is also justified in using condoms.

The medical advice for you is clearly abstinence.
Just out of curiosity, would if be sinful for someone with a highly heritable genetic abnormality to have children knowing that the children will have a high likelihood of also having this abnormality? For example, if someone knew that any children they had would have a high likelihood of having hemophilia, would it be sinful for them to have children?
What if someone knew that any children they had would have a 100% certainty of having original sin?
 
Just out of curiosity, would if be sinful for someone with a highly heritable genetic abnormality to have children knowing that the children will have a high likelihood of also having this abnormality? For example, if someone knew that any children they had would have a high likelihood of having hemophilia, would it be sinful for them to have children?
I love to answer this question when it comes up.

I have a severe genetic condition. It cause extreme deformity that cannot be corrected with surgery nor with medication. The deformity is so extreme that I never set foot outside of my house without people staring, making horrible comments, taking pictures of me. The condition causes extreme physical pain that can only be treated with higher and higher doses of narcotics. Eventually I will be unable to walk or to self care.

The discrimination I have faced in the workplace is astounding. It would be very easy for me to become a hermit and never again sit foot outside.

There is a 50% chance I pass this on to my children, the same chance that my parents had (my dad and one grandparent also have the crippling condition, they had the same odds.)

This world would be lesser place without my son. My family, friends, students, are happy to have me around even with my grotesque deformities. Same goes for my dad, my sibling and my much loved grandparent.

So, I really love this question when it comes up.

It was not a sin for any of us to have children. EVERY child is a gift from God, even the sick or misshapen ones.
 
I love to answer this question when it comes up.

I have a severe genetic condition. It cause extreme deformity that cannot be corrected with surgery nor with medication. The deformity is so extreme that I never set foot outside of my house without people staring, making horrible comments, taking pictures of me. The condition causes extreme physical pain that can only be treated with higher and higher doses of narcotics. Eventually I will be unable to walk or to self care.

The discrimination I have faced in the workplace is astounding. It would be very easy for me to become a hermit and never again sit foot outside.

There is a 50% chance I pass this on to my children, the same chance that my parents had (my dad and one grandparent also have the crippling condition, they had the same odds.)

This world would be lesser place without my son. My family, friends, students, are happy to have me around even with my grotesque deformities. Same goes for my dad, my sibling and my much loved grandparent.

So, I really love this question when it comes up.

It was not a sin for any of us to have children. EVERY child is a gift from God, even the sick or misshapen ones.
A wonderful testimony. Especially since if your condition could be diagnosed in utero a lot of people may have chosen to kill you.
 
In light of that, I’d like to very respectfully ask this difficult question -

How would you feel about providing genetic testing for the markers of similar conditions and offering elective sterilization for those people who carry them as a standard medical practice?

As such, those still led to raise families could adopt and the suffering cause by conditions like yours would either be gone from the world or much less common.

What’s your opinion, if you so choose to share it?
 
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My opinion can be summed up in one word: Eugenics.

That practice has a name and a long history.
 
My opinion can be summed up in one word: Eugenics.

That practice has a name and a long history.
Would it be fair to say that you still view it as “bad” even if fully voluntary? That the suffering it prevents does not offset it’s implicit evil (as you imply)?
 
Direct sterilization is always immoral.

CCC 2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).
 
Direct sterilization is always immoral.

CCC 2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).
Just so I understand, your position is formed because of your religious beliefs?
 
If I were not Catholic I would still be against any form of Eugenics be the sterilization voluntary or not.
 
If I were not Catholic I would still be against any form of Eugenics be the sterilization voluntary or not.
That’s what I’m very interested in - secular arguments against any form of Eugenics. They have more power to convince people who aren’t Catholic.

Feel free to end the discussion here. But if you know any reasons why it’s bad on a secular (or non-Catholic) basis, I’d enjoy reading them.
 
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