Really angry about the finances

[StrawberryJam]

We have partial facts here. We do not have all facts, or even close to that.

I have no desire to grill the OP about her comments made about her husband here.

But, someone may do so in the course of litigation.

We still do not know how many dependents are involved.

We are very clueless about facts, but filled with emotional stuff here.

So, we are left with very little to help her in a practical way.

 

[faithfully]

We have partial facts here. We do not have all facts, or even close to that.

I have no desire to grill the OP about her comments made about her husband here.

But, someone may do so in the course of litigation.

We still do not know how many dependents are involved.

We are very clueless about facts, but filled with emotional stuff here.

So, we are left with very little to help her in a practical way.

I somehow doubt we’ll get ALL the facts. Is there time and space?

Not sure about your line of questioning… but hey, maybe she will get something out of it…

Leavin’ the room…

 

[StrawberryJam]

I somehow doubt we’ll get ALL the facts. Is there time and space?

Not sure about your line of questioning… but hey, maybe she will get something out of it…

Leavin’ the room…

That is the nice thing about this forum. No need to file a motion to withdraw.

 

[llfarms]

It sounds like you dont have a finances problem, but instead a marriage problem. Your hubby doesnt respect you enough to sit down and do the books.

Instead, he does what ever he wants. I used to be the same way, but found my marriage got better when my wife knows our bills will be paid.

You need to purchase the book 'Financial Make Over" by Dave Ramsey.

In essence, you need to sit down with your hubby, hold his hand, and then tell him, how important it is to you. You need to do this w/o insults, eye looks, sneers, ect, Then, have him give you a time when u can do this together, put the kids to bed and make the time.

 

[wannabcathmom]

I must have read this wrong. How much income do you have every month? How many in the family?
I saw the number $ 6,500 a month.
Never saw how many depend on that income.
Also noted the one making the income is being insulted here.

Is there a reason you can not make due with that income?

This is a 6 person family. And that’s plenty to make do with. As a matter of fact, it’s plenty to live on, pay off ALL our debts in 2 years time, plus save at a rate of at least 10-15%.

I mentioned the amount, because that really gets me. It’s so much more than so many people have and yet we still end up with creditor calls, bounced checks, NSFs. To me, that’s outrageous.

Especially since the real problem is how/when the money is spent not what the money is even spent on (mostly). It is a refusal to plan and follow that plan.

We’re not in bad enough shape to file for bankruptcy because we don’t owe enough yet. I’ve fought hard NOT to owe that much. I refused to buy or having anything to do with buying a house. The biggest debt we have, currently, is one car payment.

We’ve got (all told) probably (with the car) 25K in debt. The thing that makes me want to rip my hair our is the simple fact that we’re hemorrhaging money on finance charges, interest, and NSFs.

It’s not really a money problem at all–other than these stupid human tricks leave me scraping to make sure we cover important things (like ER copays, clothes, shoes, doctor copays, etc).

It’s not a money problem it’s a behavior problem–totally. I’ve looked at the numbers. We spent probably a good $20K last year on interest, NSFs, and payday loan garbage. That could have been saved for retirement, college, etc.

Behavior problem that is manifesting in money mismanagement. Again, I’m not leaving over that. It pales in comparison to what has gone on in the past. And I know my hubby is a good man underneath that lousy behavior or I wouldn’t be fighting so hard.

Anytime I talk to anyone about this people say “divorce, divorce, divorce”…sure, I could shoot him, too, and wouldn’t have to deal with anything anymore, but that would be WRONG. I’ve seen what divorce does to kids and wives and husbands. Doing that ranks right up there as a sin only a few degrees removed in severity from murder.

If you’re going to divorce someone you’d better think you’re going to die if you don’t. Maybe that sounds harsh of me, but it is my opinion based on experience.

I know we can do this. We’re not so far gone that it can’t be fixed.

 

[crenfro]

Hello.

This site and the people in this group helped my husband and me tremendously, but there is no active drinking in our household.debtorsanonymous.org/

You are not what you owe.

I’d also suggest the site veritasfinancialministries.com/

I will keep you in my prayers.

Bless you.

 

[wannabcathmom]

It sounds like you dont have a finances problem, but instead a marriage problem. Your hubby doesnt respect you enough to sit down and do the books.

Instead, he does what ever he wants. I used to be the same way, but found my marriage got better when my wife knows our bills will be paid.

You need to purchase the book 'Financial Make Over" by Dave Ramsey.

In essence, you need to sit down with your hubby, hold his hand, and then tell him, how important it is to you. You need to do this w/o insults, eye looks, sneers, ect, Then, have him give you a time when u can do this together, put the kids to bed and make the time.

EXACTLY!!! That’s why I’m talking about it here because this is a marriage issue. The money thing is a symptom. I’m not worried about courts or things of that sort. Honestly, if I was going to run for the hills, it would’ve been while he was having the problems with drinking.

This is another behavioral kink in the marriage. If we got past the drinking (I’ve not always been a saint on that one myself) then I’m sure we can fix this, too. It’s all about behavior and selecting healthy habits over damaging ones. And if you grew up only knowing bad habits, and kept them into adulthood, it is really not easy to change.

It’s the same with alcohol and debt as it is with weight-loss and exercise.

He was an atheist, I was an atheist. He’s now more of an agnostic, but likes the Church for the social benefit of being there among people who like to do good things/behave. I’m hoping someday that will blossom into full belief…because I really think that would make a difference. It did for me.

I’m personally crazy mad about :

gailvazoxlade.com/

But, I’m always keen to get more ideas. This is do-able, all hope is not lost. If it wasn’t ten years ago it certainly isn’t now I’m hurt by the disrespect, but it isn’t the end of the world, either. I still think he and the kids are worth it. My marriage, too. I look at it like a really rough childbirth. When it’s all over and things are patched up and we’re happy and fat and old…I can tell horror stories and how we overcame them.

Of course, I’d like to get this whole labor of love over with so I can go to the story-making part a little sooner, though. Because this really is driving me up the walls.

I’m just trying to be patient. It’s hard. I’ve had that sit down a few times. It worked for a little while and then we fell right back. But, changes in behavior don’t follow a linear path…it takes time and sometimes a few regressions. Too emotional tonight, but I think this Friday will be a good time to sit down, get cozy, tell him how much I love him, how far we’ve come…and how far we’ve got to go…

 

[wannabcathmom]

Your lack of compassion is astounding…
Being the family earner does not earn the right to put them in financial crisis.

Thanks for backing me up, but I can understand the other poster’s possible thoughts re: wife whining about husband. We women aren’t always fair, even if we’re the fairer sex

He’s got a great work ethic and has gone above and beyond on the wage-earning. This is amazing considering what happened after the DUIs… we had nothing and he literally came back from that to dig ditches until he could get hired again as someone with a record.

Everyone at work likes him, he’s good to his friends (sometimes too good and I worry he gets used a little in the process…also quite thankful now that all the drinking buddies are safely shipped out with various branches of the service now–Thank God!!)…

Sometimes he’s A+ as a dad, too. Then he turns around and does something immature or allows immoral thoughts/words/actions that undermine everything we’re trying to do–just like with the finances.

Not a lost cause…this marriage. Definitely in need of help from God at the moment and a bit of elbow grease from us. This would probably be an issue even if I were the main breadwinner. We did spend all the savings I’d been given by my grandparents for college on keeping the family afloat, plus, I’ve worked on and off. Right now, I don’t because we have four little ones who need attention…and I’m not comfortable outsourcing my parenting to someone else for 60 hours a week. Part-time is ok…but 60 hours is too much for me until ALL of the kids are out of the critical age (under 5).

On the other side of this difficulty, I know we’ll be better people. That’s usually how this sort of thing works

 

[wannabcathmom]

Wannab, I agree with Suegra 100% on this.

Your husband sounds exactly like my daughter, who spends money that she doesn’t have to buy things she doesn’t need to compensate for the loss of her father when she was a little girl. It sounds to me that your husband is trying to fill a void in his life–which he previously filled with alcohol.

He is to be commended for quitting drinking, but is he receiving any ongoing counseling?

Miz

Counseling didn’t work too well. It’s hard to make counseling work with such a thick pair of corks in the ears LOL… I’m one to talk. Back in my heathen, obnoxious, atheist days, you might as well have nicknamed me Corky for the things stuffed in my ears to block out the truth I also had to fight to stop smoking, myself. That was a big one. I don’t know how many times I had pneumonia before I finally decided it was a bad idea…

It’s bad behavior patterns that haven’t been dropped, I’d say. So, I agree.

 

[wannabcathmom]

Wannabcathmom -
I just read your most recent post and I gotta tell you…you are one amazingly strong and patient woman. I will be praying hard for you. Earlier today, I started praying for you and the Lord just laid on my heart all these things to pray about for your family. I will continue in earnest, and I am sure you can count on the prayers and continued support of so many of the good people here at CAF.
Your sister in Christ,
mommamaree

You know… You have a better attitude about this than I would. I would have absolutely sold his non emotional items, and NOT my momentos from my family.

You are amazing for even trying to figure this out. Seriously. I just googled around for some ideas, and basically I have found no solution, other than divorce.

You know, I would talk to a priest to see how this MIGHT work? But I might tell my husband I was going to file for a civil divorce so that I could start building credit. Say, "honey, I don’t plan on leaving you. But being legally married to you, is going to destroy our family. I can’t risk losing our home etc. So, I’m going to divorce you. As you know in the church it won’t be recognized. I love you and I will stay with you. But you clearly have no interest in our financial health. I’m going to do what I can. I’m going to seperate our legal ties from a credit standpoint. "

And then if he didn’t step up. I’d do that.

Thanks to you both. I have to say, I learned patience, like I learned everything else–the hard way. God loved me enough to thwack me upside the head with a two-by-four (metaphorically)…or I should say, sat there patiently watching me thwack myself until I got tired and decided to do something that made sense.

Now, I’m watching my husband with his two-by-four, next to God, saying “Do you know when he’s going to quit doing that, already?”

I appreciate the prayers. I’m trying to be better with my prayer life on this, too. Pray and work and we’ll get there. I’ve got high hopes for RCIA playing a positive role in getting us all the way back on the straight and narrow.

I could just hug all of you, really. I appreciate having the chance to kind of get this out among understanding and kind-hearted people who don’t just yell “ARe you STUPID?!” in my face.

 

[Suegra]

Wannab,
Many “friends” also mentioned the D word to me, too - “divorce”. But I did take vows for richer or poorer, better or worse, so I never seriously considered that option.

I went to church for quite a while with the children, before my hubby decided to start “acting” as if he had faith. After he did that for a while, he found he had faith. Things didn’t improve overnight, but once we were both actively trying to live out our Christian vocation to marriage, every part of our lives did change for the better. The financial part was one of the last to fall in place.

I do recommend talking to your priest, if you can - and if hubby won’t go to counseling with you, go on your own to get some relief and a place to vent. Al-Anon is also helpful for that. Your husband is still in recovery (and always will be) and there is a LOT of helpful and useful information and support at Al-Anon.

God bless you and good luck,
Suegra

 

[llfarms]

I think that my wife and I had the same VERY PROBLEM. We had a huge mansion/house, new cars, ect. My wife and I are both Masters level engineers and we were pulling around 150K/year, but yet managed to have to do cash-advances from Wells Fargo.

We were sooooo poor with our money. My marriage almost ended. My wife wanted to stay home with the kiddos and not pay the nearly 2K/mo to send out 3 kids to day care.

We not budget together so i cant ask where all our money went, but were to remove one more element to fight about (we now are frustrated and at our wits end with NFP, totally another ball of wax). We decided to sell the mansion (400K debt we didnt have anymore) and all other properties…

At the end, we shedded about 500K worth of debt, did a budget where we know how much is going in and out, now own all of our cars, and moving into a house 3X smaller (4000sq ft to 1100 sq ft) in a much more humble neighborhood. We sold everthing that was not bolted to the ground.I also landed taking a partime job at HOME DEPOT while our house was on the market and wife at home. You want to talk about humility, try being a computer scientist and working at Home Depot loading lumber for you Manager.

GETTING ANOTHER JOB WILL NOT SOLVE THE PROB LONG TERM… Unless you change the habits.

 

[StJudePray4Me]

Hi there,
It seems like you have a fairly good handle on the situation and are doing pretty much all you can. Your attitude is great and no one can blame you for being a bit discouraged!

I think the Al Anon is a very important aspect – after all, the only person you can control is you. So trying to force your DH to go to AA or counseling is not going to work, but you could get a lot of practical advice and fellowship at Al Anon. I agree with the poster who suggested that your DH might be a dry drunk. I think he is still struggling and perhaps just needs time. How did he quit drinking? Any organized program, or did he just white-knuckle it? It really does make a difference.

On the practical, right-now-what-do-I-do? aspect of this, I think you really have to stop pressuring him. I know my DH does NOT like to be told what to do (He can be like a kid that way) and I find I really have to finesse things. I have to think a lot about how I approach issues so that I don’t come off sounding like a nag, a whiner, or worst - his mother! LOL

Maybe it’s not right, or fair, or whatever, but I definitely know what makes him tick and I try to approach sensitive topics in the right way. You catch a lot more flies with honey, know what I mean? I’m not saying you’re a screaming banshee or anything, I’m just saying you might need to massage his ego a bit more?

Also, if you know when the direct deposit hits, try to be RIGHT there, to either send electronic payments to pay the bills, or to withdraw the funds and pay bills with cash or money orders. Perhaps you could encourage him to close the checking account and use cash and money orders. Approach it like, “Babe, the bank is totally ROBBING us blind with these outrageously high NSF fees! They are so greedy, it makes me sick that they think nothing of taking your hard earned money and putting it in some executive’s $3 million paycheck!! What do you say we change over to just a savings account, and I’ll pay the bills with money orders? I can get them at WalMart for like, a dollar each, and I can pay some bills with cash at their office (like cable, heating oil, etc.) After all, these days with ATM machines on every corner, who needs a checkbook?”

Just a thought!

Good luck and God Bless, and in the immortal words of my Grandma (and probably everyone’s Grandma) – “This too shall pass. It’s just a phase.”

 

[mommamaree]

Wannabcathmom -
I am so glad you ‘put your foot down’, so to speak, on the mention of the ‘D’ word. I hadn’t seen anything in any of your posts here that made it appear as if you would even consider that, nor have I seen any accusations that were worthy of such a tragic action. I also agree with you that this seems to be a behavioral problem, not a true financial problem. My husband and I have struggled through our fair share of financial obstacles, but it always boils down to us having to recognize and change our childish behaviors when it comes to money. It is difficult to learn good stewardship of a family’s financial resources, especially when one’s parents did not prepare one to be able to do that. Your finances will improve of their own accord as the behavior issues are overcome.
I have been praying really hard for your family. I see that other people here are doing so as well. Have you considered adding your prayer request to the ‘Prayer Intentions’ forum here at CAF? There are some amazing prayer warriors whose purpose for coming to CAF is to pray for those who ask for it! Prayer is an amazing tool that God has given us. As a ‘recovering atheist’ you might not be aware of the power of prayer yet. Do you realize that when we pray, we have the ear of God, the Creator of the Universe and Author of Life? And all his angels and saints? What’s more powerful than that? Nothing, except when you multiply your prayers by asking others to pray with you, that’s what! The most effective strategy in prayer (this was taught to me and has held out with experience) is to ask God that His will be done and that you be a conduit for His grace. Better than petitioning God for specific requests, is to ask God to make you an instrument of His will, so that healing and reconciliation be manifested. God is so ready to rush in and fill that void in our lives, if we open ourselves up to Him in prayer, with thanksgiving, and absolute trust in His divine providence. (On another note, check out the book called “Abandonment to Divine Providence”. What an amazing book for a new Catholic!)
Okay, well this was a long post. I didn’t mean for it to be, but I just wanted to address a couple of the bigger topics I saw in the posts following my most recent one. God bless your family and marriage!
Oh, one more thing…I love your analogy of ‘labor of love’ and ‘story-making time’! It reflects what the Lord laid on my heart to pray about for you just last night! Only my mental image was a gorgeous rose garden blossoming in what was previously apparently lifeless soil. The cultivation of such a garden would be a huge toil, but oh what a glorious thing to celebrate when it finally blossomed!

 

[agnes_therese]

Wannabcathmom, I really admire your patience with your husband. Mine is a minor-league spender, in comparison.

Having said that, I do agree with a previous poster who suggested you get legal advice. Not about divorce, but to find out for sure what you can and can’t do about the finances – whether you can get your name off any joint credit accounts, etc. And when you go back to work, you DEFINITELY need to have your pay go into a separate account, at a different bank. If you have trouble opening an account due to the nsf history, see if your employer offers a paycard option.

Hang in there,

 

[Sierrah]

Past troubles or not that doesn’t excuse someone from not living within their means. It looks maybe he’s traded one problem for another. I don’t know what you could do to protect yourself but your kids should be considered too. You said something about him being “nicer the the kids” was he abusive? I don’t really have any advice but I’ll pray for your family.

 

[wannabcathmom]

Wannabcathmom -
I** am so glad you ‘put your foot down’, so to speak, on the mention of the ‘D’ word. ** I hadn’t seen anything in any of your posts here that made it appear as if you would even consider that, nor have I seen any accusations that were worthy of such a tragic action. I also agree with you that this seems to be a behavioral problem, not a true financial problem. My husband and I have struggled through our fair share of financial obstacles, but it always boils down to us having to recognize and change our childish behaviors when it comes to money. It is difficult to learn good stewardship of a family’s financial resources, especially when one’s parents did not prepare one to be able to do that. Your finances will improve of their own accord as the behavior issues are overcome.
I have been praying really hard for your family. I see that other people here are doing so as well. Have you considered adding your prayer request to the ‘Prayer Intentions’ forum here at CAF? There are some amazing prayer warriors whose purpose for coming to CAF is to pray for those who ask for it! Prayer is an amazing tool that God has given us. As a ‘recovering atheist’ you might not be aware of the power of prayer yet. Do you realize that when we pray, we have the ear of God, the Creator of the Universe and Author of Life? And all his angels and saints? What’s more powerful than that? Nothing, except when you multiply your prayers by asking others to pray with you, that’s what! The most effective strategy in prayer (this was taught to me and has held out with experience) is to ask God that His will be done and that you be a conduit for His grace. Better than petitioning God for specific requests, is to ask God to make you an instrument of His will, so that healing and reconciliation be manifested. God is so ready to rush in and fill that void in our lives, if we open ourselves up to Him in prayer, with thanksgiving, and absolute trust in His divine providence. (On another note, check out the book called “Abandonment to Divine Providence”. What an amazing book for a new Catholic!)
Okay, well this was a long post. I didn’t mean for it to be, but I just wanted to address a couple of the bigger topics I saw in the posts following my most recent one. God bless your family and marriage!
Oh, one more thing…I love your analogy of ‘labor of love’ and ‘story-making time’! It reflects what the Lord laid on my heart to pray about for you just last night! Only my mental image was a gorgeous rose garden blossoming in what was previously apparently lifeless soil. The cultivation of such a garden would be a huge toil, but oh what a glorious thing to celebrate when it finally blossomed!

THanks so much for the prayers. And it is great to see from the comments here that other people have survived this.

As for the “D” word. Divorce is a solution to financial and behavioral problems the same way abortion is a solution to a “problem” pregnancy… It’s throwing away a person because you don’t feel like dealing with difficult times.

Even if behavior forced my husband and I to separate, I know I’d never “replace” him. I would be like my own mother in that. They divorced for abuse issues, but she never remarried and considered that wrong to do. Our extended family made fun of her for that.

I just wanted to say, people aren’t to be thrown away when they’re broken…they’re not broken toys.

It’s hard because I’ve had so many pressures to walk away over the years. During the DUI years especially…again it is so nice to be somewhere (Catholicism) that understands I’m not STUPID for not divorcing/hanging in there.

Just look at the responses here from men and women. WE CAN DO THIS! It will just take some discipline and patience

 

[agnes_therese]

Thank you. So many of us are broken in one way or another. In addition to patience, you have a lot of wisdom.

.

I just wanted to say, people aren’t to be thrown away when they’re broken…they’re not broken toys.

 

[wannabcathmom]

Thank you. So many of us are broken in one way or another. In addition to patience, you have a lot of wisdom.

Thanks, but it’s God that’s straightened me out. Takes one to know one, I guess (regarding broken people). I’ve certainly felt broken in the past. We all need each other. That’s what God’s always tried to tell us.

I barely made it out of my psychology classes with my sanity intact. There seemed to be such a message of people as little more than biological robots–which, if broken, were useless. Maybe I was crazy to take that away from what was said, but that’s the sense I got from it. Very depressing.

People aren’t trash when they’re broken. As a matter of fact, I’ve found that the refurbished humans I’ve met are the best.

 

[horselvr]

I don’t think anyone on this thread is suggesting divorce but I do hear some saying to protect yourself financially. I am one of them. After all, the subject line of this thread is that you are ‘Really Angry About Finances’ and rightly so since your husband is taking loans out and you have no idea of where this money is going.

You did say that, " We spent probably a good $20K last year on interest, NSFs, and payday loan garbage. That could have been saved for retirement, college, etc."

This could possibly be a behavioral problem but the end result, no matter what spin you’d like to put on it, is still financial and not a very good one since you did pawn a necklace your Dad gave you, a bracelet from your mother, your class ring… keepsakes, antiques… and spent the money your grandparents gave you for college just to keep your family afloat.

While others consider you to be very patient, having wisdom, guess I will have to be the voice of reason here and will surely be considered one with little compassion but it seems to me that you keep throwing good money after bad.

By the way, divorce is definitely not the “easy way out” but sometimes and in some cases, it is the only option.

You also did mention that: “Whenever I’ve felt there was a potential for harm to me or the kids, we’ve left for a while and let him have time to think about it. Not separation, just avoiding his destructiveness.”

So at times you are worried for the safety of the children (and you) and he is taking you down the financial tubes and you have pawned everything of value.

But then again, maybe things aren’t as bad as they seem and you just need to vent. I’ll pray for your children.