Really angry about the finances

[horselvr]

Also meant to add that Al-Anon is really something to consider and I believe they also have a group for the children of alcoholics. Prayers that this all works out for the family.

 

[wannabcathmom]

I don’t think anyone on this thread is suggesting divorce but I do hear some saying to protect yourself financially. I am one of them. After all, the subject line of this thread is that you are ‘Really Angry About Finances’ and rightly so since your husband is taking loans out and you have no idea of where this money is going.

You did say that, " We spent probably a good $20K last year on interest, NSFs, and payday loan garbage. That could have been saved for retirement, college, etc."

This could possibly be a behavioral problem but the end result, no matter what spin you’d like to put on it, is still financial and not a very good one since you did pawn a necklace your Dad gave you, a bracelet from your mother, your class ring… keepsakes, antiques… and spent the money your grandparents gave you for college just to keep your family afloat.

While others consider you to be very patient, having wisdom, guess I will have to be the voice of reason here and will surely be considered one with little compassion but it seems to me that you keep throwing good money after bad.

By the way, divorce is definitely not the “easy way out” but sometimes and in some cases, it is the only option.

You also did mention that: “Whenever I’ve felt there was a potential for harm to me or the kids, we’ve left for a while and let him have time to think about it. Not separation, just avoiding his destructiveness.”

So at times you are worried for the safety of the children (and you) and he is taking you down the financial tubes and you have pawned everything of value.

But then again, maybe things aren’t as bad as they seem and you just need to vent. I’ll pray for your children.

I guess what I’m getting at is that it isn’t nearly as bad as it has been at times. I left when there was drinking in the picture and certainly said if that didn’t stop that we were gone. The safety I was worried about was the kids at any point getting into a car with an intoxicated person–not physical abuse. The drinking phase was THAT BAD, but we overcame that–albeit not without threats of divorce and times of separation and counseling.

I don’t think things are THAT BAD, although, I’ve certainly thrown good money after bad. That’s not untrue. This behavior has become a bottomless pit of lost savings, etc.

Now, we’re NOT in so much debt that we can get a bankruptcy (checked with a lawyer). That’s actually a good thing! And thanks to the credit score, no one will lend to us except the payday loan people. But, new laws have been enacted to limit (although not eliminate) their ability to swindle people. Also, there is a limit to how much can be borrowed at any one time. Of course, at a very high interest rate. I’m actually happy the credit score is trashed. I don’t WANT my husband to be able to get a 10,000 dollar limit! LOL

BUT, because of the credit score and my refusal to buy a house when we weren’t ready, our debt load hasn’t grown into the hundreds of thousands. With discipline, we can get out from underneath it in about 2 years.

With discipline. And that’s where the trouble comes in and the 2 years grows to 10. We’ll NEVER be out of debt without discipline. And he’s fighting my requests.

So, all is not lost. I didn’t say divorce was an “easy out”…it looks like it is, but it isn’t. I’ve seen what happens after divorce and lived it. Both my husband and I are products of the aftermath of divorce and families with substance abuse issues. I wouldn’t do something like that unless I thought that my kids (or I) would literally die from not doing so.

It seems like other people here have been through a similar mess and survived to see the other side of it. I’m just going to keep trying to move the family toward sanity…gently.

 

[remjsmom76]

Wow, you could be writing about my life there too! Except we dont earn 6K+ a month we earn almost 4K a month. For a long time, I was the one doing the budget too. Im a stay at home mom. Dh would work and get paid but never really cared about what was being spent or what was being paid. His dad gave him really bad advice during our first years of marriage. So that ruined our credit. I had started to fix that up when he took a major pay cut when the military moved him to Europe…they messed up his pay for several month and our savings was eaten up to make sure our house was paid…we could only keep that up for a few months and we lost our savings and in the end our house. He wouldnt sit with me to do the budget cause his way of doing it was VERY EXTREME…I mean really extreme. Time has helped us as well as “growing up” lol. Now what we do is we right down all of our expenses…fixed like cable, internet, you know bills that never change are always the same. Then we average the other expenses…electricity, utilites and so forth.

We always make sure that is covered. Then we budget our grocery and gas for the week. After that if we still have money for other bills that do not affect our life…like having the water cut off or the electricy. All other bills can wait…yes your credit will take a hit, but you need to live first. Then what I do is I give my husband about 20-50 a week just for him…he can use it as he pleases…I dont care what he uses it for, he can spend it on beer for all I care. Its his. That way he has some money to spend. Your gonna have to budget his spending and give him an allowance. If he fights you over it you need to SLAP HIM…then sit him down. Tell him to grow up and man up. Its all about choices…my husband once told me “I work and work but I feel like I have nothing to show for it” and I can understand his view. WE cant go on vacation, we cant just go out and enjoy a movie and go to eat out all the time like most of his family. However they also dont have 4 girls. WE do what we can. WE have expenses and well thats just life. Hope that helps…I might have just rambled on.

 

[GratefulDeb]

The problem is, YOUR credit also goes into the toilet with his. I’m not sure what legal protection you might have… As a married couple his credit is yours.

This is true only if you have joint checking/credit card accounts or loans. It is also true if you live in a “community property” state. There are nine of them: Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington (state), and Wisconsin.

Thank God I don’t live in any of those states! My husband too, is a big child when it comes to being financially responsible. I thought I had things covered; I always had my own credit cards, loans, and saving’s accounts (with him as a beneficiary only). So, I thought things were ok until OUR joint checking account got frozen by a debt collector for HIS defaulting on a loan. To add insult to injury, it was a checking account that I had for 20 years and added him to it when we got married. I was flabergasted! I mean this was also a direct deposit checking account (my job). I petitioned the court to have the account released. It took over 2 months, but they finally did release it. Now, I have my own checking account and have him ‘pay’ me so our bills can get paid.

For your marriage to survive, you must be able to discuss money with him. Contact a marriage counsler (or your parish priest–he will see you even if you are just becoming a Catholic–you mentioned your going through R.C.I.A.). Also, set up a meeting with a financial planner at your bank. They will be able to help you at least cover your own butt.

 

[GratefulDeb]

As for the “D” word. Divorce is a solution to financial and behavioral problems the same way abortion is a solution to a “problem” pregnancy… It’s throwing away a person because you don’t feel like dealing with difficult times

Even if behavior forced my husband and I to separate, I know I’d never “replace” him. I would be like my own mother in that. They divorced for abuse issues, but she never remarried and considered that wrong to do. Our extended family made fun of her for that.

I just wanted to say, people aren’t to be thrown away when they’re broken…they’re not broken toys.

AMEN! My husband and I have had our struggles too. Hard ones. But we’ve always pulled through. I always keep in mind the loving compassionate man that I married all those years ago (16 years ). He will always be that person to me.

I’m sorry that other’s made fun of your mom for divorcing/and her beliefs on remarriage. That was wrong of them. I feel much the same way myself. After all, marriage is a sacrament like holy orders are a sacrament.

 

[zz912]

I will second someone else’s recommendation to read Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover book. And check out his website, www.daveramsey.com. You have a marriage issue in that he is not behaving or acting like a mature adult. He is behaving like a two year old with the “But I WANT it!!”

You should also look into enrolling in Financial Peace University (FPU). There are classes near you and maybe at a parish near you. He’s a protestant, but his biblical references are not out of line with Catholic teaching. It uses money lessons from the Bible and common sense on how to budget and get out of debt. The biggest problem for you guys is covered in the first 3 lessons, about how to relate with money and work together on a budget and stick with it.

Praying for you!

 

[wannabcathmom]

This is true only if you have joint checking/credit card accounts or loans. It is also true if you live in a “community property” state. There are nine of them: Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington (state), and Wisconsin.

Thank God I don’t live in any of those states! My husband too, is a big child when it comes to being financially responsible. I thought I had things covered; I always had my own credit cards, loans, and saving’s accounts (with him as a beneficiary only). So, I thought things were ok until OUR joint checking account got frozen by a debt collector for HIS defaulting on a loan. To add insult to injury, it was a checking account that I had for 20 years and added him to it when we got married. I was flabergasted! I mean this was also a direct deposit checking account (my job). I petitioned the court to have the account released. It took over 2 months, but they finally did release it. Now, I have my own checking account and have him ‘pay’ me so our bills can get paid.

For your marriage to survive, you must be able to discuss money with him. Contact a marriage counsler (or your parish priest–he will see you even if you are just becoming a Catholic–you mentioned your going through R.C.I.A.). Also, set up a meeting with a financial planner at your bank. They will be able to help you at least cover your own butt.

Counselors have been (ugh) well, let’s just say that good counselors are few and far between. I think there are counselors with good intentions, but ones that are truly good at cognitive behavioral therapy…and cutting through all the garbage people stack in the way of recovery… those people are a rare find.

I’d trust any priest, any day, over the average counselor. We’re in one of those community property states So, I own all of the mess lock, stock, and barrel, anyway, as part of the marriage deal. But, that’s how it goes. Better or worse, richer or poorer. We’re not in such dire straights we can’t get out. But, it’s not exactly a pleasure cruise at the moment, either.

No offense to anyone, but it is heartening to know we’re NOT the only ones going through this and that is possible to right around.

 

[wannabcathmom]

I will second someone else’s recommendation to read Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover book. And check out his website, www.daveramsey.com. You have a marriage issue in that he is not behaving or acting like a mature adult. He is behaving like a two year old with the “But I WANT it!!”

You should also look into enrolling in Financial Peace University (FPU). There are classes near you and maybe at a parish near you. He’s a protestant, but his biblical references are not out of line with Catholic teaching. It uses money lessons from the Bible and common sense on how to budget and get out of debt. The biggest problem for you guys is covered in the first 3 lessons, about how to relate with money and work together on a budget and stick with it.

Praying for you!

Financial Peace…I like the sound of that! Also, like the resources in addition to the ones I’ve already looked at. Amazing how something so simple can be so hard. But, diet and exercise and weight control…all similar. It’s about discipline.

 

[wannabcathmom]

Wow, you could be writing about my life there too! Except we dont earn 6K+ a month we earn almost 4K a month. For a long time, I was the one doing the budget too. Im a stay at home mom. Dh would work and get paid but never really cared about what was being spent or what was being paid. His dad gave him really bad advice during our first years of marriage. So that ruined our credit. I had started to fix that up when he took a major pay cut when the military moved him to Europe…they messed up his pay for several month and our savings was eaten up to make sure our house was paid…we could only keep that up for a few months and we lost our savings and in the end our house. He wouldnt sit with me to do the budget cause his way of doing it was VERY EXTREME…I mean really extreme. Time has helped us as well as “growing up” lol. Now what we do is we right down all of our expenses…fixed like cable, internet, you know bills that never change are always the same. Then we average the other expenses…electricity, utilites and so forth.

We always make sure that is covered. Then we budget our grocery and gas for the week. After that if we still have money for other bills that do not affect our life…like having the water cut off or the electricy. All other bills can wait…yes your credit will take a hit, but you need to live first. Then what I do is I give my husband about 20-50 a week just for him…he can use it as he pleases…I dont care what he uses it for, he can spend it on beer for all I care. Its his. That way he has some money to spend. Your gonna have to budget his spending and give him an allowance. If he fights you over it you need to SLAP HIM…then sit him down. Tell him to grow up and man up. Its all about choices…my husband once told me “I work and work but I feel like I have nothing to show for it” and I can understand his view. WE cant go on vacation, we cant just go out and enjoy a movie and go to eat out all the time like most of his family. However they also dont have 4 girls. WE do what we can. WE have expenses and well thats just life. Hope that helps…I might have just rambled on.

No, it helps to know I’m not alone in trying to untangle financial muck. So many times, if I say anything regarding frustration over finances it seems like people pop out of the woodwork to say, “You’re stupid to marry someone like that.” or tell me how great they have always been/what’s my problem? Which, I don’t doubt people feel that way. Most of us feel that way on one topic or another if we haven’t walked in someone else’s shoes. Really, I know how to budget, I know what needs to be done. My husband does, too.

He’s even admitted at times that he doesn’t want to look at the account or balance the check book because it is “depressing” or something similar to “scary”.

This week has been one big disaster, but we’ve finally pulled everyone back to a good point. So, we’ll try again. So far, no NSFs for this pay cycle praying to keep it that way…

Money isn’t a nice topic. We’re really working on that whole “stewardship” thing.

 

[StrawberryJam]

This is a 6 person family. And that’s plenty to make do with. As a matter of fact, it’s plenty to live on, pay off ALL our debts in 2 years time, plus save at a rate of at least 10-15%.

I mentioned the amount, because that really gets me. It’s so much more than so many people have and yet we still end up with creditor calls, bounced checks, NSFs. To me, that’s outrageous.

Especially since the real problem is how/when the money is spent not what the money is even spent on (mostly). It is a refusal to plan and follow that plan.

We’re not in bad enough shape to file for bankruptcy because we don’t owe enough yet. I’ve fought hard NOT to owe that much. I refused to buy or having anything to do with buying a house. The biggest debt we have, currently, is one car payment.

We’ve got (all told) probably (with the car) 25K in debt. The thing that makes me want to rip my hair our is the simple fact that we’re hemorrhaging money on finance charges, interest, and NSFs.

It’s not really a money problem at all–other than these stupid human tricks leave me scraping to make sure we cover important things (like ER copays, clothes, shoes, doctor copays, etc).

It’s not a money problem it’s a behavior problem–totally. I’ve looked at the numbers. We spent probably a good $20K last year on interest, NSFs, and payday loan garbage. That could have been saved for retirement, college, etc.

Behavior problem that is manifesting in money mismanagement. Again, I’m not leaving over that. It pales in comparison to what has gone on in the past. And I know my hubby is a good man underneath that lousy behavior or I wouldn’t be fighting so hard.

Anytime I talk to anyone about this people say “divorce, divorce, divorce”…sure, I could shoot him, too, and wouldn’t have to deal with anything anymore, but that would be WRONG. I’ve seen what divorce does to kids and wives and husbands. Doing that ranks right up there as a sin only a few degrees removed in severity from murder.

If you’re going to divorce someone you’d better think you’re going to die if you don’t. Maybe that sounds harsh of me, but it is my opinion based on experience.

I know we can do this. We’re not so far gone that it can’t be fixed.

I really wish you the best in this. You have the motivation and the spirit and love to do this. Let’s hope you get co-operation in your efforts to turn this around.
I agree with you about the moral issue at hand regarding divorce. Hang in there. You will end up helping others once you get over this chapter.