Really complicated situation: past and present (long)

[Norseman82]

Well, the whole “I was raped yet I continued to date him and sleep with him” story makes me question either her judgment, her stability, or her truthfulness - and that should set off a “red flag” - so maybe that is what is bothering the OP.

 

[icooker]

Just to add that the situation is not as cookie-cutter as it seems, and my poor English (not my primary language) is getting in the way of the message I’m trying to convey.

It’s a mixture of a lot of things, including a lot of guilt on my own. Though I planned to marry her since we started dating, and knowing that that wish was (wrongly) behind the fact that we had sex at an inappropriate time, I really wish I could prove these things to her.

In a way, it’s the guilt for not being able to prove her what was going on in my mind at the time, basically in the same way why it’s so hard for her to show hers to me. Think about it, it’s been hard to show it to you people on this board.

It’s basically the deal with why pre-marital sex is wrong.

I actually feel like a much worse person than she is, because she wasn’t guilty of what happened to her and I should have shown her from the beginning the importance of saving oneself for marriage. I was far from God at the time and I didn’t act as I had always planned to do my entire life.

I’m trying to do it now. I really am.

I want to do everything right. I want to have a lifetime relationship with her. I want to make her happy.

I’m just terribly worried that I’m might not be good enough to do that, no matter how hard I try. I guess I just think I should have no doubts, if that’s possible.

 

[icooker]

Norseman: I have actually read a lot about the consequences of rape, and that’s one of the most common reactions to rape committed by boyfriends.

It’s a mechanism of denial, of trying to think that what happened wasn’t a rape. They rationalize it, trying to think it was normal.

Even though I’ve read that in a lot of psychology works, it does bother me indeed.

Even if science says so, I guess it’s really hard for someone who isn’t close to the fact to grasp it.

If I analyse it too much, I end up thinking it must have been because she was really in love with the guy, or because she didn’t really value her virginity at all, etc. All these things have crossed my mind, but, as I said, I have read a bit on the subject and I have prayed a lot to be able to fully understand it.

I have not achieved that status yet, and it does still haunt me from time to time.

It’s one of the things that bothers me most, actually. I have no reason to doubt her truthfulness, but I have trouble understanding if it really is possible for someone to be completely opposed to an action and have such reaction.

I guess I’d need a psychology major to fully grasp the concept.

 

[shirleytowers]

So you know she was raped and it bothers you not so much because she was hurt but because now she isn’t a virgin.

I said it above and I will say it again: you need counseling to help you understand this.

and

You said:

shirleytowers: I’ve thought long and hard about not being the ideal man for her due to my difficulty in dealing with the past. However, I’ve managed to not let that shine through when I’m with her.

Here you acknowledge that you are not the ideal man for her but you have managed to keep this from her.

You seem to be mainly thinking of yourself. I should be hearing you talk about how she is reacting, how she is dealing with it. After all, it happened to her, not to you.

You seem oblivious about how you should properly feel about her rape. What you mainly get from it is that she is not a virgin now.

An appropriate reaction might be to protect her and love her more, or to be angry at the perpetrator or to become a policeman or …well there are lots of authentic and kindly reactions. But having serious second thoughts because she isn’t a VIRGIN isn’t one of them.

If you are have second thoughts, you should NOT get married because if you do marry before this is 110% resolved, I assure you the matter will only get worse and possibly wreck your marriage and your lives.

Maybe you just can’t handle this right now by yourself. Please seek counseling. For your own sake and hers.

 

[YinYangMom]

I actually feel like a much worse person than she is, because she wasn’t guilty of what happened to her and I should have shown her from the beginning the importance of saving oneself for marriage. I was far from God at the time and I didn’t act as I had always planned to do my entire life.

I’m trying to do it now. I really am.

I want to do everything right. I want to have a lifetime relationship with her. I want to make her happy.

I’m just terribly worried that I’m might not be good enough to do that, no matter how hard I try. I guess I just think I should have no doubts, if that’s possible.

Ok, I’m starting to get a clearer picture of the situation.

Now it seems you are questioning whether or not you really are the right man for her since you seem to be struggling with her past even though you recognize it should’t bother you like it does.

You’re thinking perhaps there’s a better man than you out there, one more understanding, more compassionate, perhaps.

But when it comes to these things - who are we really meant to be with - you really do need to trust in God and allow Him to lead.

You say you knew from the get-go that you wanted to marry this woman. You’ve known her for 8 years. You still enjoy being in her presence and all.

Consider Satan’s role in messing with God’s plan…know that he’s always at the ready to help us muck things up. So let’s consider your first instinct to be the proper one…that this is the woman you’re meant to marry…would Satan want that to happen? No.

What tools does he have at his disposal? Your cockiness, her prior rape. He deceives you into having relations with her, and then he uses that to get you to appreciate the gift of virginity (now that you’ve given yours away) to gnaw away at you, then he uses her past to further drive a wedge between you and God’s plan for you.

I’m not saying that’s the way it is, but it is a possible scenario.

Regardless, I think you need to go to Eucharistic Adoration and empty yourself of all this doubt, anxiety, worry. On the assumption that the gunk is Satan produced, then by your taking all of it to Jesus you should be free and at peace after your adoration (it may take more than one visit, as we humans have a difficult time truly letting go of all the junk, tending to hang on to bits and pieces for comfort). Your relationship with your girlfriend should improve, especially as you receive grace through your adoration, confessions, mass attendance, reception of the eucharist. Through adoration you will find your girlfried will finally go to confession herself, after which time she will have received the grace she will need to see her situation clearer (through God’s lenses, not Satan’s).

If all of this isn’t Satan’s doing then you will still receive grace and clarity from your visits at Adoration. Trust in Him to guide you and you will be at peace - whether it’s by staying with your girlfriend or letting her go.

You remain in my prayers.

p.s. I agree with ShirleyTowers…seek counseling for yourself. Even with this spiritual battle you seem to be under, it is evident you are also not emotionally ready to make such life decisions. You appear to have a few issues rooted in your own past which should be faced and resolved before you’ll be in a strong enough position to commit your entire life to another person.

 

[icooker]

So you know she was raped and it bothers you not so much because she was hurt but because now she isn’t a virgin.

You seem oblivious about how you should properly feel about her rape. What you mainly get from it is that she is not a virgin now.

An appropriate reaction might be to protect her and love her more, or to be angry at the perpetrator or to become a policeman or …well there are lots of authentic and kindly reactions. But having serious second thoughts because she isn’t a VIRGIN isn’t one of them.

Shirley: It’s not exactly the fact that she isn’t a virgin, bur rather two different things:

1. tha rape having taken place: this is not her fault. I do love her very much and I do want to protect here. It’s sort of an anger towards the fact that it did happen.

I truly believe it shouldn’t have happened. So I think: “should I get in a marriage where I’ll be angry for something that I can’t help?” I’ve actually many times considered going after the guy: it’s the knowledge of it not helping anything that has prevented me from doing so.

1. the scenario pointed out by Norseman, though I feel it bothers me less today than it has in the past. I just feel I have to believe her and to understand that I’m not in a position to fully understand how trauma messes with someone.

It’s hard to put it in words: it’s not the fact that she isn’t a virgin and that would make her worse; not at all. It’s a matter of having something that causes pain and anger in the relationship and if it wouldn’t be better for her to have someone that didn’t care.

YinYangMom: once again, thanks for your insight.

I hace considered your scenario before, and I’d say it’s the most likely one.

If she wasn’t the right girl for me things would be much different between us. I never had trouble letting go of the “wrong girls”, and I never ever felt this way.

I really do need to go to Adoration, I don’t know why I stopped doing it all those years ago…

As for why I’m somewhat unstable right now, I don’t think it really has to do with the past, but with what’s going right now in my life: graduating from college, possible job in another country or doing my Master’s here… I’m just facing a lot of huge choices right now.

Thanks a lot for your prayers.

 

[francisca]

icooker:

If she wasn’t the right girl for me things would be much different between us.

If you marry her, then the above is the line you should remember all of your life

You just have to get your heart resolved : you said in your first post that you did “pursued” that first sex of yours, so your position and hers are actually not much of any difference. Remember this always when satan talk to you : you love her and she loves you, and that’s the truth. The rest are lies.

If you drop her just like that, you will be nothing but one of the lies she get herself tricked again. But if you believe in the truth, then both of you will receive the truth of life. Otherwise, those good things are nothing but lies for both of you.

The truth of life is faithfulnes. Regrets are of the spirit of unfaithfulness. If you are faithful (does not regret but always believe in the hope of goodness to come), then your life will be truthful, otherwise, you are unfaithful and your life will be full of lies.

Some people might give you advice : “becareful before you decide to marry a girl, make sure you are ready and you have picked the right one”. But I say to you : if you love her you must marry her. The Lord will guide you and bless you in your love for her and her love for you. And love does not “change mind”. This change of mind is of the spirit of unfaithfulness that has brought many lies to many people’s life (so we have to reject such spirit). Therefore resolve your heart, and if the tattoo gives you hard times, then I suggerst that you persuade your girlfriend to get the tattoo removed so it will not bother both of you anymore. Do not confront the ex-boyfriend. Such lie (her ex-boyfriend) is best to be left behind in the past as if he has never existed at all.

God bless you.

 

[icooker]

francisca: thank you for your kind words.

The tattoo is to be solved shortly, she’s saving to have it removed (it’s much more expensive in Brazil than in the US).

I know I’d have no issues with her if it wasn’t for what happened in the past.

I keep thinking that it would be absurd to leave the woman I love because of what someone did to her in the past, but then there are these bad thoughts about how she could have taken it like that, the “why” of things, and if I should be in a relationship where something outrages me, even if not because of a fault of any of the involved parties.

I don’t know, it’s probably due to a lack of prayer on my part. I’ll work on that.

Once again, thanks.

 

[JezuUfamTobie]

Hi,

I don’t have time right now to read the whole thread, so I apologize if I’m repeating what has already been said… but icooker, I was wondering if you have access to any books or other materials about the way women act in abusive or captive situations? You can probably do a google search and pull up a few good resources. Regardless of whether or not this woman ends up being the right woman for you, it is very interesting to read about this subject, and it can help you understand a little about “why?” (Though admittedly not everything–the human “heart” still has a lot of mystery to it!) This subject may not seem directly related to her particular situation at first glance, but I think you might find it helpful.

Why did she “take it” like that? Women are different from men in this way. I was just reading a good book by Fulton Sheen yesterday, and he talked a little about these differences. Women tend to be more cooperative. We are more likely to have a deep desire to understand others and work actively on achieving harmony in relationships. This is very good in a healthy situation (such as a strong, sacramental marriage), but our natural tendency to cooperate and try to make the best of things can also be exploited. A woman is especially vulnerable to this if she was not raised to believe in or respect her intrinsic human dignity, if her family failed to give her strong, healthy moral principles as guideposts, or if she does not participate in organized religion.

The good news is that a cooperative woman can make a very good, understanding, compassionate wife!

But so long as you are plagued by doubts, don’t hurry things along! The cross of an unhappy marriage is very heavy and lonely burden to carry. If you marry a woman you resent in some way, this resentment can later boil over in ugly ways. It sounds like you’re aware of this, and I want to applaud your honesty with yourself, and the way you’re seeking to know the will of God in your situation. I know it’s really hard to wait, since chastity can be difficult (and because we just plain like tthe idea of getting started on our vocations!), but I hope and pray you’ll take all the time you need to discern all this fully.

God bless!

 

[icooker]

A woman is especially vulnerable to this if she was not raised to believe in or respect her intrinsic human dignity, if her family failed to give her strong, healthy moral principles as guideposts, or if she does not participate in organized religion.

This is really the part that concerns me the most.

Based on everything I’ve known of her, she actually is very proud of herself, and seems to value her dignity very much. I’ve seen her stop talking to people for much lower offenses than that.

She said that she always knew she had to give herself to one man only.

I either have to believe that and go with the fact that such trauma can mess up anyone’s judgement, despite how well it funtioned before, or that maybe her beliefs weren’t that strong to begin with.

But I really don’t know, and I guess I’ll never will. It seems like a process of rationalization, which could be shown from the fact that she indeed stopped doing it with the guy, despite still dating him.

Then again, she blamed herself for what happened, at least for a long time.

It’s a really complicated matter.

I have read a lot about it, and it indeed makes things clearer. Not perfectly clear, but clearer. That’s some good advice on your post.

Thank you very much.

 

[icooker]

But, now that you’ve mentioned it, she was surrounded by friends who thought it was no problem to have sex with their boyfriends.

So, it might have been an easier way out to just believe what happened was normal than to realize what she had gone through and what it actually meant.

 

[leonie]

icooker, just wanted to let you know that when your Significant Other has a “past,” it is natural for it to bother you.

This is true even if the person regrets it. But, as you grow deeper in love and in commitment, you let those feelings go. It stops bothering you.

 

[MSJoan]

:twocents:

If you were to proceed to marriage in the Church, you would need to talk with your priest and receive preparation for the Sacrament. Since all of this would come out in the preparation, you might want to think about which priest you would ask to prepare you/witness your marriage and then talk with him… before you decide whether to spend the rest of your life with her.

 

[icooker]

leonie: thanks for your insight, I guess that’s true. It bothers me even though it wasn’t her fault to begin with.

MSJoan: thanks a lot. I have a priest who I’m very close to (I play in his Sunday Mass) and he’ll probably celebrate my marriage.

 

[gmarie21]

I just hope that you’re not trying to justify a marriage with her because you’re afraid to lose her. If you’re not ready, you’re not ready. Don’t rush it because you may be moving out of the country. I have known too many who made the “wrong” choice in marrying someone because they were afraid to lose them even though they knew they didn’t want to marry the person at that time either. Those marriages all turned out unhappy and full of problems.

 

[icooker]

gmarie: thanks for your post.

What would be your suggestion? A long-distance engagement? Breaking up and then seeing how things will be on the way back?

I think those are options that guarantee this will not work, but I could be wrong, of course.

 

[Katie1723]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamen.

And two more Aaaaaaaaaaamen’s to Puzzleannie and CupofKindness.

Make it three.
I am a little bothered when someone says " I feel bad about giving my virginity to someone who didn’t save hers for me".
Kathy

 

[icooker]

Katie: you do realize this was part of a very confusing time and I never implied that it was a perennial thought, right?

 

[gmarie21]

gmarie: thanks for your post.

What would be your suggestion? A long-distance engagement? Breaking up and then seeing how things will be on the way back?

I think those are options that guarantee this will not work, but I could be wrong, of course.

My suggestion, either try for a long distance relationship or break up. If the relationship wouldn’t work if it were long distance, guess what, you two aren’t meant for each other. If you HAVE to be in each other’s physical presence at all times and feel you MUST marry before you go so that the relationship doesn’t fail, then frankly, there isn’t too much of a relationship.

How many men and women marry someone right before their spouse is being shipped off to war? The seem to deal with the distance as best as possible and make the relationship work. They don’t say to themsleves “Oh, because my spouse/fiance/boyfriend/girlfriend is going overseas for the military I don’t have to be faithful and work on this relationship, I might as well end this now”. Most react this why “I love you, I’ll write you and talk to you when you are able, I’ll send you packages, I’ll wait for you.” And then, they go and do exactly what they promised. If she’s worth the wait, you’d know. If you’re worth the wait, she’d know.

My step brother is in the Peace Corps in Africa for a total of 2 1/2 years (he has 1 1/2 years left). Guess what, he proposed to his girlfriend when she went to visit him a few months ago and she said yes. She won’t see him again until he returns. She writes him and is waiting for him. THey are both working on their relationship through the distance and neither question the commitment of the other.

 

[icooker]

I don’t think it has to do with being faithful. Really. That’s the very least one can expect of a person and distance should have no affect on that.

My theory is this: when one person in a relationship goes away, both find themselves longing for the other person. This longing can be quite strong, almost unbearable at times.

I spent 8 days overseas with my parents a couple of months ago and I could no longer stand being away from her. Not because I was afraid she was doing something wrong, but just because I truly missed her.

If a longer time goes by, you either have to choose between being sad for not having the person nearby or not caring for their absence.

This doesn’t necessarily lead you to acting wrongly, but it creates a sense of contempt for not having the other one around that could hurt the relationship later on.

There’s also the fact that there would be the fact of my “choosing” to go away. I have plenty of opportunities that would keep me down here, and I choose the one that involves me going away? No, she hasn’t said that, I’m just imagining scenarios here.

Of course, none of them are that good, but there could always be these feelings of my having left her, even if temporarily and because of a job. There’s also the fact that my position there might become permanent.

So, when would I take her? It could mean putting the relationship in a halt for over 3 years (which is the minimum I’ll be staying abroad).

If I know I’ll be marrying her, why not marry now? Because, if I propose, I’m marrying. lol

If I don’t propose, we’ll have a non-descript bf/gf relationship?

I don’t know, it’s just that I’ve seen these things happen with couples that were apart from each other for more than a few months. All of them.

It could very well be a cultural issue. I’d be willing to try it, I honestly am. There’s just this fear that it might not work.

Thanks.