Really having issues with this...do Protestants go to hell..Catholic view on this?

[Confiteor_Deo]

Protestants do perfect contrition in their own ways. You can’t just say you are better than them because you are Catholic. You are being very unfair to many righteous servants of God.

You cannot make a perfect act of contrition in your own way. You either do it and are pardoned, or you don’t. I am not saying that I am better than a Protestant, I am simply saying that, as a Catholic, I have a significantly better chance of getting to Heaven. I am not happy that Protestants are in such a sad situation, but it is the truth.

 

[anon67074017]

You cannot make a perfect act of contrition in your own way. You either do it and are pardoned, or you don’t. I am not saying that I am better than a Protestant, I am simply saying that, as a Catholic, I have a significantly better chance of getting to Heaven. I am not happy that Protestants are in such a sad situation, but it is the truth.

A lot of Protestants seek genuine harmony with God. I personally think they have a better chance of getting to heaven than someone like Claude Frollo. He abused his Catholic faith and his power.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

A lot of Protestants seek genuine harmony with God. I personally think they have a better chance of getting to heaven than someone like Claude Frollo. He abused his Catholic faith and his power.

I am sure they do seek such harmony, but that doesn’t mean they get it. Frollo (from the Hunchback of Notre Dame, correct? I love that movie ) could have just hopped into a confessional and been absolved of his many mortal sins while a Protestant, should he wish to be pardoned of one mortal sin, must make an act of perfect contrition. Since Frollo denied the grace of contrition, though, he went to Hell.

 

[anon67074017]

I am sure they do seek such harmony, but that doesn’t mean they get it. Frollo (from the Hunchback of Notre Dame, correct? I love that movie ) could have just hopped into a confessional and been absolved of his many mortal sins while a Protestant, should he wish to be pardoned of one mortal sin, must make an act of perfect contrition. Since Frollo denied the grace of contrition, though, he went to Hell.

Frollo is from The Hunchback of Notre Dame. I also like that movie. I am glad that we were able to find some common ground. That’s a start.

 

[Church_Militant]

In the end it is God’s purview to decide this matter.

We know that the fullness of truth is within the Catholic Church, but God is not bound by our understanding so all we can say is what the church has said.

If anyone knows and understands that Catholicism is the God ordained way of salvation and still obstinately refuses to convert then they will face judgement for that…but that judgement is God’s because only He knows the depths of any person’s soul and judges with justice and mercy.

Do Protestants go to hell? Probably some do.

Do Catholics go to hell? Probably some do.

St. Paul gives us the best counsel on this when he wrote.

2nd Timothy 2:15
Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

 

[anon67074017]

In the end it is God’s purview to decide this matter.

We know that the fullness of truth is within the Catholic Church, but God is not bound by our understanding so all we can say is what the church has said.

If anyone knows and understands that Catholicism is the God ordained way of salvation and still obstinately refuses to convert then they will face judgement for that…but that judgement is God’s because only He knows the depths of any person’s soul and judges with justice and mercy.

Do Protestants go to hell? Probably some do.

Do Catholics go to hell? Probably some do.

St. Paul gives us the best counsel on this when he wrote.

2nd Timothy 2:15
Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

I like your view.

 

[guanophore]

I like your view.

Me too. :yup:

 

[Ad_Orientem]

The Catholic Church is not “Roman”.

The Church disagrees with you.

If we would define and describe this true Church of Jesus Christ - which is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church - we shall find nothing more noble, more sublime, or more divine than the expression “the Mystical Body of Christ” (Mystici Corporis 13)

Clearly he’s emphasizing the Church’s visible organization in the world; and since this is the part of the Church we are in, there is nothing wrong with identifying it in that manner.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Ad Orientem:

On this, at least, we agree.

By this agreement, we are in effect in full agreement.

No Catholic believes a non-Catholic baptized Christian has the fullness of the Faith or Truth. But they are nevertheless incorporated into the Church and the Body of Christ by their valid Trinitarian Baptism. This is Catholic doctrine which was taught all the way back in the days of St. Cyprian and St. Cornelius.

 

[PRmerger]

Many Protestants genuinely repent when they commit a sin. They also think that the Catholic Church misinterprets Christianity through no fault of their own.

It’s difficult to determine whether a person’s misinterpretation of Catholicism is through
“no fault of their own” or not…but if that is truly the case (but how would you know?), then you are correct.

 

[Gorgias]

I will quote the Baltimore Catechism since it is more well-known. My apologies for the considerable length of the quote; the Catechism was quite thorough in this question.

Well, to be fair, you’re not quoting the Catechism here. You’re quoting from “An Explanation of the Baltimore Catechism”, by Rev Thomas L Kinkead. So, the teaching of the Church in this case is simply “Q. are all bound to belong to the Church? A. All are bound to belong to the Church, and he who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it, cannot be saved.” The rest – that is, what you’ve quoted here – is simply Kinkead’s commentary on that question.

In any case, even Kinkead’s commentary, he’s talking about mortal sin, which, of course, is defined in terms of grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. One would have to be able to demonstrate that a Christian has ‘full knowledge’ of a grave sin, and commits that grave sin with deliberate consent, in order to conclude ‘mortal sin.’ That’s problematic, it seems, if the person demonstrably does not have the fullness of the truth.

Kinkead is correct, of course, that one who dies in mortal sin is condemned. So, he’s speaking from the mind of the Church when he writes, “if, then, we found a Protestant who never committed a mortal sin after Baptism, and who never had the slightest doubt about the truth of his religion, that person would be saved.” (After all, we can produce doctrinal statements of the Church that assert precisely this notion.) However, he then gives his personal opinion: “I am giving you an example, however, that is rarely found.” (This, by contrast, is never found in magisterial documents. It’s his own opinion.)

So, if you want to base your opinions on the teaching of the Church, you’ll still have to produce them; you haven’t done so, yet. On the other hand, if you want to base them off the opinions of a single priest (regardless how erudite he might have been), then that’s your business…

 

[anon67074017]

It’s difficult to determine whether a person’s misinterpretation of Catholicism is through
“no fault of their own” or not…but if that is truly the case (but how would you know?), then you are correct.

Most Protestants I have met seem truly righteous.

 

[ChadS]

Do Protestants go to hell? Probably some do.

Do Catholics go to hell? Probably some do.

St. Paul gives us the best counsel on this when he wrote.

2nd Timothy 2:15
Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

I have read blogs written by our separated brethren that would argue:

Do Protestants go to hell? Probably some do.

Do Catholics go to hell? Most, except those that don’t fully understand their Catholicism.

So while we carry on this conversation there are those that would say this whole topic is extremely misguided in the sense that the only Catholics who get into heaven are the ones that are more Protestant in their theology and that they are the true orthodox in their beliefs.

ChadS

 

[PRmerger]

Most Protestants I have met seem truly righteous.

This is a nonsequitur.

You haven’t addressed how it is that you could know if someone’s ignorance of Christ, or of His Church, is “through no fault of their own”.

 

[anon67074017]

This is a nonsequitur.

You haven’t addressed how it is that you could know if someone’s ignorance of Christ, or of His Church, is “through no fault of their own”.

I do not know how to respond to you. I am not a moral theologian.

 

[PRmerger]

I do not know how to respond to you. I am not a moral theologian.

You don’t need to be a moral theologian to apply logic and reason to the arguments which are presented here.

To wit: you cannot know the degree of ignorance of any Protestant, no matter how “righteous” he may seem.

Advanced knowledge in moral theology is not required for understanding this.

If someone has embraced theology which has diverged from Catholicism, he should be shown the truth.

 

[alwayswill]

Of course not. The Church teaches that only God can know the heart, and only He can judge. Only He knows who is worthy of eternity with Him, and who is worthy to be without.

We say that there is no salvation outside the One Church founded by Christ because there is no salvation outside of Christ, and He is one with His Holy Bride, the Church. We know that not all those He saves are visibly members of His One Body, but we trust that they are grafted into Him, and therefore, members of His One Body, the Church.

…

In order to be saved, I must be in full communion with the Church established by Jesus Christ, and while there may be a question about whether that Church is some form of Eastern Orthodoxy, or the Roman Catholic Church, it definitely isn’t any form of Protestantism. And I am reasonably convinced that the Roman Catholic Church, headed by the Bishop of Rome, is the lawful successor to Sts. Peter and Paul when they were martyred in Rome.

Are jmacrae, forum elder, 36,084 posts and guanophore forum elder, 29,074 posts
saying the same thing in different ways;
or are they contradicting each other?

 

[jmcrae]

Are jmacrae, forum elder, 36,084 posts and guanophore forum elder, 29,074 posts
saying the same thing in different ways;
or are they contradicting each other?

We are saying the same thing in different ways.

Only God can judge any individual soul, and it may be God’s good pleasure to save someone who is outside of the Church (especially if it is through no fault of their own), but the Church is the ordinary means by which human beings are incorporated into Christ, and thus, saved.

 

[alwayswill]

We are saying the same thing in different ways.

Only God can judge any individual soul, and it may be God’s good pleasure to save someone who is outside of the Church (especially if it is through no fault of their own), but the Church is the ordinary means by which human beings are incorporated into Christ, and thus, saved.

so
“In order to be saved, I must be in full communion with the Church established by Jesus Christ, … **it definitely isn’t any form of Protestantism”
**
is the same as
"so do Catholics believe that Protestants go to hell even if they believe in Christ?.. Of course not."

got it

 

[jmcrae]

so
“In order to be saved, I must be in full communion with the Church established by Jesus Christ, … **it definitely isn’t any form of Protestantism”
**
is the same as
"so do Catholics believe that Protestants go to hell even if they believe in Christ?.. Of course not."

got it

I am not invincibly ignorant, and at the time of my coming into the Catholic Church, I had many mortal sins that I needed to Confess.

I am definitely not in the same situation as an invincibly ignorant Protestant who has never committed any mortal sin.

So you see, we don’t actually disagree.