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Pieman333272
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Does Jesus’ teaching of reaping what you sow resemble Karma? Did Jesus teach a concept nearly identical to Karma in his preaching?
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Sufjon
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Hi Pieman - good to hear from you again. I can’t see where Jesus is preaching anything contrary to karma in that passage. There was heavy contact between the Sub-Continent and Palestine even back in those days via the Silk Roads. Judaism, while having it’s own twists and turns, probably didn’t develop in a vacuum.
Your friend,
Sufjon
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TimothyH
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I doubt the many references to reaping and sowing in the Bible have anything to do with Karma. The predominant industry in Palestine at the time was agriculture. It’s likely that the authors were just speaking in terminology and phraseology which their audience could understand.
A more likely explanation is the reverse, that the Buddist and Indian religions have a partial and somewhat incorrect understanding of the fullness of truth regarding sin and it’s effects. There is temportal punishment for sin and for those who persist in sin, sin and the absence from God which results becomes the punishment in and of itself. it is a viscious cylce. The idea of Karma, is an incomplete understanding of this.
Remember, there is some truth in all religions. Buddhism attempts to find that truth but falls short.
-Tim-
A more likely explanation is the reverse, that the Buddist and Indian religions have a partial and somewhat incorrect understanding of the fullness of truth regarding sin and it’s effects. There is temportal punishment for sin and for those who persist in sin, sin and the absence from God which results becomes the punishment in and of itself. it is a viscious cylce. The idea of Karma, is an incomplete understanding of this.
Remember, there is some truth in all religions. Buddhism attempts to find that truth but falls short.
-Tim-
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rossum
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Ha! For that you will receive a visit from our Special Attack Ninja Zen Commandos. They will secretly and silently enter your bedroom on 21 March and do absolutely nothing. That will teach you, or not. Either way it comes to the same thing. They are Zen Commandos after all.
rossum
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puzzleannie
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does not sound like any explanation of Karma I have ever seen which seems to be the idea that your fate can’t be changed by anything you do, the opposite notion from Jesus’ warning.
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Sufjon
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You make a lot of interesting assertions. Would you care to explain them?
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Ceil-1
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I believe Karma is an explanation for the natural law of justice written on our hearts.
For those who hold the Karmic view, who keeps track of the plusses and negatives? Who administers the justice in the ethereal realm? There needs to be a superior being to “read” the heart, or soul, as the case may be.
For those who hold the Karmic view, who keeps track of the plusses and negatives? Who administers the justice in the ethereal realm? There needs to be a superior being to “read” the heart, or soul, as the case may be.
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TimothyH
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I don’t really know what to explain other than to state that the Catholic faith as revealed to the Apostles by Jesus Christ and handed on to us by their successors is the fullness of truth. In so far as a religion tries to explain the meaning of life, it attempts to find truth and as such, even the most pagan religion contains some truth… a greater meaning to life other than self, how everything came into being, etc.
-Tim-
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TimothyH
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The Philistines, having captured the ark of God, transferred it from Ebenezer to Ashdod. They then took the ark of God and brought it into the temple of Dagon, placing it beside Dagon. When the people of Ashdod rose early the next morning, Dagon was lying prone on the ground before the ark of the LORD. So they picked Dagon up and replaced him. But the next morning early, when they arose, Dagon lay prone on the ground before the ark of the LORD, his head and hands broken off and lying on the threshold, his trunk alone intact. (1 Samuel 5:1-4)Ha! For that you will receive a visit from our Special Attack Ninja Zen Commandos. They will secretly and silently enter your bedroom on 21 March and do absolutely nothing. That will teach you, or not. Either way it comes to the same thing. They are Zen Commandos after all.
rossum
Special Attack Ninja Zen Commandos? :knight2:
Bring em on! I have a rosary and I’m not afraid to use it!!!
-Tim-
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rossum
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Nah. Whever did that actually did something. Special Attack Ninja Zen Commandos never ever do anything at all. You only know they have paid you a visit because nothing has happened.
Foolish grasshopper. That will do you no good at all:
http://bunkadoonline.com/images/products/display/juzuE3168.jpg
Our rosaries have fluffy tails!
rossum
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elvisman
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And you’d be wrong.
The Karmic principle is based on the teaching of reincarnation. Jesus’ teaching about reaping what we sow has nothing to do with reincarnation.
Jesus NEVER taught reincarnation or the fact that we should be nice to a dog because we might end up as one in another life. **
This is the Karmic principle and it has nothing to do with Christianity.
Case Closed.
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babylonsfalling
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In a superficial kind of way, yes.
The notion of “karma” (I call is “what goes around comes around”)seems an observable phenomena to me, kind of like gravity. Everyone sees it but nobody quite knows exactly how it works. But unlike gravity, it’s a spiritual and moral principal which makes it more interesting.
The word “karma” is just an overused, cool sounding word for what everyone has known about forever. The problem is that people sometimes speak as if karma is it’s own power, independent somehow from God when in fact, karma is just a natural law of he spiritual dimension. Karma is part of God’s creation, He wired the universe to work in a karma-like way and ultimately God owns karma in the same way He owns all other natural laws.
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Publisher
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I think that being a Gallilean and close to the commerce centers of the Roman world, Jesus would have been exposed to other faith and traditions. Judaism was heavily influenced by Zorastrianism…the Jews had adopted some of their own understanding and beliefs from their time in Exile in Persia centuries before.
While I don’t think Jesus embrace the idea of karma per se, Judaism had it’s own beliefs concerning divine judgement. Good acts vs bad acts…
As I understand karma, each action has a “spiritual consequence”…each of us accrue “good karma” and “bad karma”…and while in Eastern thought karma does determine one’s placement on the Wheel of rebirth…“transmigration of souls” is different than the Western esoteric understanding of reincarnation.
In Western thought humans return as humans…not animals. Which is often misunderstood by Westerners concerning karma…from my experience any ways. Eastern understanding and Western understanings begin at a different “place”…trying to “reconcile” these concepts make it difficult at times.
While I don’t think Jesus embrace the idea of karma per se, Judaism had it’s own beliefs concerning divine judgement. Good acts vs bad acts…
As I understand karma, each action has a “spiritual consequence”…each of us accrue “good karma” and “bad karma”…and while in Eastern thought karma does determine one’s placement on the Wheel of rebirth…“transmigration of souls” is different than the Western esoteric understanding of reincarnation.
In Western thought humans return as humans…not animals. Which is often misunderstood by Westerners concerning karma…from my experience any ways. Eastern understanding and Western understanings begin at a different “place”…trying to “reconcile” these concepts make it difficult at times.
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Pieman333272
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But doesn’t karma say that bad things will happen to you only if you do bad things? Granted Jesus didn’t preach an infinite circle but rather a final judgment (a line, if you will). Actually, nevermind, I just remembered that forgiveness and sorrow is not meaningful in karma in the sense that it cannot undo what is bringing suffering onto you as Jesus taught.
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rossum
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There is both good karma and bad karma.
Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox.
Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves.
Dhammapada 1:1-2
Karma can work within your current life as well as in future lives. If you punch someone on the nose today they aren’t usually going to wait until you are reborn to punch you back!
rossum
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Sufjon
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Karma is just cause and effect. There are consequences for what you do or don’t do. The effect is the sort of existence you live in this life and in the next life. Whether or not one defines that next life as a place called heaven, a place called hell or simply a next life is not material to the idea of cause and outcome, and their carry over effects. All are outcomes.
As for the dog thing you mentioned, I will address that as well. It is not wise to be kind to a dog because one believes that one could be a dog on the next life, which by the way is not a standard Hindu belief. It is wise to be kind to a dog because being kind is the right thing to do. It is all about doing the right things in thought and in deed. One who is generally hateful, angry, unkind or negative will have a hateful, angry or negative experience in this life and most certainly the next, howsoever one might define the next life. In regards to the next life, from the perspective of Eastern thought, Mahavatar Jesus of Nazareth said nothing that contradicts any of this. He did not describe exactly what heaven was - a state of being or a place, nor did He say where it was, although I would expect that if you could ask Him He would tell you that it is inside you and all around you.
As far as I am aware, Jesus did not describe heaven in enough detail to call it a place, mention purgatory or a number of other things that many Christians believe, but perhaps you can point me in the right direction if He did. I can only recall Him comparing Hell to a dump where trash was burned outside the walls of Jerusalem (Gehenna), and in that context it is very possible that He was describing a state of being where one burns in one’s own misery. The misery caused by one’s own state of mind and one’s own state of heart. The misery that leads one to look down upon others or deride the way on which they love God because it is some way other than the way you do. That must indeed be a rotten set of innards to cart around through this life, and if heaven is inside you and all a around you, so too must be hell.
So the question is, what sort of existence are we creating for ourselves and in this life and the next in our thoughts, our deeds and our feelings or lack thereof for others?
Your friend
Sufjon
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elvisman
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WRONG**.**
Jesus and the NT writers describe BOTH heaven and hell as REAL places, not simply comparisons:
HELL
**Matt. 25:41
**Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Rev 14:11
The smoke of the fire that torments them will rise forever and ever, and there will be no relief day or night for those who worship the beast or its image or accept the mark of its name
HEAVEN
Matt. 25:34
’Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
John 14:2
In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places***. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you*?**
As for the teachings of Christ being the same as Karma – you are wrong again. Although you point out that the Karmic principle is not always applpied to reincarnation – the principle itself is based in reincarnation. The Bible speaks CLEARLY against this false teaching:
Heb. 9:27
“Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment…”
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rossum
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If Hell is a real place then it lies under the East bank of the Jordan: Numbers 16:31-33"And as he finished speaking all these words, the ground under them split asunder; and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men that belonged to Korah and all their goods. So they and all that belonged to them went down alive into Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly."
rossum
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Pieman333272
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COUGH allegory COUGH
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rossum
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You think that it is an allegory. I think it is an allegory (at least the hells in Buddhist scriptures are) but I am not sure that elvisman thinks it is an allegory. He thinks it is a real place.
I think we both agree that interpreting an allegorical text literally will lead to errors.
rossum
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