Reason and Belief

[Marybeloved]

Oh, Richard, get real! You really do not paint a good picture of yourself here- You give an illogical proposition as your basis for scripture and when it’s shown to be illogical, you start raving and ranting that I don’t believe scripture or Jesus! Is that how all protestants behave when they’re backed into a corner with reasoned responses to propositions based on sand? Your ad-hominem attacks on me as an attempt to hide your obvious inability to defend your arguments come off as rather childish- Could you please stop that?

I accept the scriptures of course, because the church has declared them scripture! Which is in fact the whole point of this thread and this debate, isn’t it? It’s a simple story, really…

The Catholic Church made a declaration that the 27 books of the NT are scripture, despite some of them being disputed (like Hebrews) and others being rejected that had been widely held as authentic and many wanted them listed. You, in the 21st Century, having come from the Protestant movement and therefore lost about History, find a complete book called the bible and imagine it fell like that from Heaven! You are rudely awakened as to the true facts of History by Catholics, and realize that the entire basis for your faith is a decision of the Church that you’ve been trained to view as evil and reject without hesitation. You are asked to state why you accept that decision of the CC as completely right but reject others- Cornered, you create a ridiculous theory about choosing scripture for yourself (without the CC) that says you accept a book as scripture when it makes accurate prophecies that come to pass. The theory, because of its obvious flaws, is ripped to shreds as you watch, and then to save face, you begin to make attacks on me??? If you’re not able to defend theories, Richard, you should not make them up.

Quit posting multiple times that I believe scriptures are untrue- **Your theory makes no sense! **And it wounds you to have it pointed out to you. You should come back with a better one or accept the truth with sincerity. The under-handed attacks on me are unbecoming.

 

[Marybeloved]

@Richard, one more thing…

We are discussing here the “simple” matter of how to decide which books are scripture, having set aside the CC decision- Why are you pretending to be shocked when it’s pointed out to you that you can’t start by accepting the books as scripture first? What would be the pointing of sorting which books are scripture if you’ve already accepted them as scripture? Is that really hard to see, or are you just feigning indignation??

 

[CopticChristian]

Oh, Richard, get real! You really do not paint a good picture of yourself here- You give an illogical proposition as your basis for scripture and when it’s shown to be illogical, you start raving and ranting that I don’t believe scripture or Jesus! Is that how all protestants behave when they’re backed into a corner with reasoned responses to propositions based on sand? Your ad-hominem attacks on me as an attempt to hide your obvious inability to defend your arguments come off as rather childish- Could you please stop that?

I accept the scriptures of course, because the church has declared them scripture! Which is in fact the whole point of this thread and this debate, isn’t it? It’s a simple story, really…

The Catholic Church made a declaration that the 27 books of the NT are scripture, despite some of them being disputed (like Hebrews) and others being rejected that had been widely held as authentic and many wanted them listed. You, in the 21st Century, having come from the Protestant movement and therefore lost about History, find a complete book called the bible and imagine it fell like that from Heaven! You are rudely awakened as to the true facts of History by Catholics, and realize that the entire basis for your faith is a decision of the Church that you’ve been trained to view as evil and reject without hesitation. You are asked to state why you accept that decision of the CC as completely right but reject others- Cornered, you create a ridiculous theory about choosing scripture for yourself (without the CC) that says you accept a book as scripture when it makes accurate prophecies that come to pass. The theory, because of its obvious flaws, is ripped to shreds as you watch, and then to save face, you begin to make attacks on me??? If you’re not able to defend theories, Richard, you should not make them up.

Quit posting multiple times that I believe scriptures are untrue- Your theory makes no sense! And it wounds you to have it pointed out to you. You should come back with a better one or accept the truth with sincerity. The under-handed attacks on me are unbecoming.

Salute Mary, Applaud Mary, Acclaim Mary, Herald Mary, Hail Mary.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Why do you ask?

Because I want to hear you answer. Why have you evaded this question so many times? Can you really not answer it?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Because I want to hear you answer. Why have you evaded this question so many times? Can you really not answer it?

Why do you keep asking it so many times? Can you really not answer?

 

[CopticChristian]

Why do you keep asking it so many times? Can you really not answer?

You write In Christ Richard, and I do not judge whether you are or are not in Christ…

You write volumes on the sinful nature of Mary and when asked to give an answer you go silent…I read my Bible and I see Peter telling me…

15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

I am wating for your answer with gentelness and the reason for the hope that you have as to the surety of Scripture as you profess that I might have hope.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Why do you keep asking it so many times? Can you really not answer?

You have made it quite apparent that you either can’t or won’t answer the most simple and basic of questions. I feel confident that anyone reading this thread can see this as well, I only hope that you realize it yourself sooner rather than later.

I will pray that one day you truly open yourself up to the Lord.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Oh, Richard, get real! You really do not paint a good picture of yourself here- You give an illogical proposition as your basis for scripture and when it’s shown to be illogical, you start raving and ranting that I don’t believe scripture or Jesus! Is that how all protestants behave when they’re backed into a corner with reasoned responses to propositions based on sand? Your ad-hominem attacks on me as an attempt to hide your obvious inability to defend your arguments come off as rather childish- Could you please stop that?

I accept the scriptures of course, because the church has declared them scripture! Which is in fact the whole point of this thread and this debate, isn’t it? It’s a simple story, really…

The Catholic Church made a declaration that the 27 books of the NT are scripture, despite some of them being disputed (like Hebrews) and others being rejected that had been widely held as authentic and many wanted them listed. You, in the 21st Century, having come from the Protestant movement and therefore lost about History, find a complete book called the bible and imagine it fell like that from Heaven! You are rudely awakened as to the true facts of History by Catholics, and realize that the entire basis for your faith is a decision of the Church that you’ve been trained to view as evil and reject without hesitation. You are asked to state why you accept that decision of the CC as completely right but reject others- Cornered, you create a ridiculous theory about choosing scripture for yourself (without the CC) that says you accept a book as scripture when it makes accurate prophecies that come to pass. The theory, because of its obvious flaws, is ripped to shreds as you watch, and then to save face, you begin to make attacks on me??? If you’re not able to defend theories, Richard, you should not make them up.

Quit posting multiple times that I believe scriptures are untrue- Your theory makes no sense! And it wounds you to have it pointed out to you. You should come back with a better one or accept the truth with sincerity. The under-handed attacks on me are unbecoming.

You have posted this

First, For any of this to be true, we have to assume that the gospels are speaking the truth! Your theory assumes that it’s already scripture first! Which beats the whole point of your criteria to begin with! That these events about Jesus actually happened, such as birth in Bethlehem etc before we can say it fulfills scripture! How do you know the evangelists did not just come up with these facts to fit into prophecies that had been there already centuries before?

And above this

I accept the scriptures of course, because the church has declared them scripture! Which is in fact the whole point of this thread and this debate, isn’t it? It’s a simple story, really…

So let me get this straight. The whole purpose of this whole exercise is to denigrate my basis for my faith in the veracity of scripture and to say that yours is better. Wow, can’t say it’s a surprise. I’m just asking myself why?

 

[E.E.N.S]

You have posted this

And above this

So let me get this straight. The whole purpose of this whole exercise is to denigrate my basis for my faith in the veracity of scripture and to say that yours is better. Wow, can’t say it’s a surprise. I’m just asking myself why?

You’ve never given any reason for why you believe in the New Testament though, only the Old Testament.

 

[dingodile]

What part of ALL do you not understand?

If you are saying that the New testament is not included in this ALL, you must be saying that it is either not scripture or not inspired.

The expression “all Scripture” can be interpreted either as referring to (a) what was recognized by him as Scripture at the time he wrote the words, or (b) what was eventually recognized as Scripture.

If (a), then we don’t know whether he knew that he was writing Scripture when he wrote the letters. Moreover, we don’t know specifically which texts he did and didn’t recognize as Scripture, since he didn’t list them. If (b) then we necessarily appeal to some future authority for the certified canon of Scripture, since some Scripture wasn’t yet written when Paul wrote those words. Neither can we assume that Peter regarded his own letters as Scripture. So, either way, you need extra-Scriptural authority to certify scripture.

 

[hockeyfan]

Cop, You leave me dumbfounded with this question. What do you want me to say about the 100% accuracy of the prophecies other than they are 100% accurate? You have already stated that you know about prophecy. So, you need to be a little more specific.

I sense that you feel you are being ganged up on. I have no desire to gang up on you, and suspect that no one here does. I think we are all trying to get some answers on a issue.

Anyhow, I think you are talking about a different thing then Coptic and Mary. (I hope, that is)

You said…

It is because I believe in what the bible says.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I get out of that quote that you are saying you believe that the Bible (in your case, any Protestant bible) is 100% truth, and you use that as your argument.

Then Coptic said…

What is your surety that the Bible is truly the word of God and you can trust what you can believe from this book?

I think that Coptic was trying to point out that the Bible did not come out of a vacuum. There were 400 years before the books were ever collected together. He is asking what justification you are using to say that one book is scripture, and the other is not.

Then you say…

The 100% accuracy of it’s prophecy’s. If the prophecy’s of past events came true, I can trust it’s veracity for future events. If it proves true in prophecy, I believe that it is the word of truth in all things. Why do you ask?

If I get you correct, you are saying that your justification for your believing the Bible is the fulfillment of prophesy. Again, please correct me if I am mistaken.

Then Coptic said…

Tell me about these prophecies that are 100% accurate.

The problem you are running into with Coptic and Mary is that they want you to delve into some of the New Testament prophesies that have come true. It is not to say that they don’t know them, but it will help to analyze your point. Just like in any academic argument, you make a point and then you provide examples. For example, if you were to ask me as a Catholic, why I believe that the Pope has authority, I would cite Matthew 16:18. There are other Biblical examples to my argument, but I would be bringing one up to the surface so everyone can analyze it. I think that is what they would like you to do for them, but to use a example from the New Testament.

Then you said…

That’s for another thread.

So Coptic made another thread that had nothing to do with Mary.

Then Coptic said…

This dialogue is from Mary-sinner Romans 3 and Richard Krastner reasonably does not believe that Mary is without sin. Richard Krastner reasonably believes as stated above. He suggested another thread. I invite Richard and all Protestants to tell about these prophecies that cause one to believe with reason that what I ask is true.

I point this out to say that he only brings up Mary to site where the discussion came from. In the other thread, he apparently felt it digressed from the original topic. I think he also thought that this topic was important too, so he started this thread to keep both topics going.

In the end, I think we all want you, Richard, to show a few examples of a New Testament prophesies that have been fulfilled.

 

[hockeyfan]

So anyhow, Richard, could you bring up a couple of Biblical examples of such prophesies so that we may discuss them? Seeing as you just list yourself as Protestant, we don’t know how you read the Bible. A Baptist will see issues totally different then a Lutheran. A Non-Denominational Protestant can find disagreements with a Methodist. Episcopalians disagree with each other over gay marriage. There are disagreements among Protestants over if the rapture happens before the tribulation, during the tribulation, after the tribulation, or even if there is a rapture. Some even believe in more then one rapture.

What do all of these Protestants have in common? They all use the same Bible!

So, could you name some prophesies that you are referring too?

 

[Marybeloved]

So anyhow, Richard, could you bring up a couple of Biblical examples of such prophesies so that we may discuss them? Seeing as you just list yourself as Protestant, we don’t know how you read the Bible. A Baptist will see issues totally different then a Lutheran. A Non-Denominational Protestant can find disagreements with a Methodist. Episcopalians disagree with each other over gay marriage. There are disagreements among Protestants over if the rapture happens before the tribulation, during the tribulation, after the tribulation, or even if there is a rapture. Some even believe in more then one rapture.

What do all of these Protestants have in common? They all use the same Bible!

So, could you name some prophesies that you are referring too?

Forget it, my friend. There are no such prophecies, and our friend Richard knows it.

You see, his position involves choosing blindly first, then looking for reasons for that choice afterward- It never works because it’s totally backward. And then of course, you’re not even looking for reasons at all but mere justifications and you’re not applying reason anymore but defensive tactics only. These never stand up to scrutiny because they are not true and are never about truth but only about defending one’s choice.

Humans just don’t like to undo all the emotional, mental and spiritual investments we’ve made on a certain choice, we’d rather run from the truth than admit that our whole premise is false, our assumptions wrong. We all do this in many different ways- People remain in unhealthy situations because they’re already there, it’s too painful to accept that it’s wrong and begin from scratch. It’s too painful to imagine that the Harlot of Babylon we’ve hated all this time is actually right…possibly even the very bride of Christ. But since reason is the only tool God has given us to seek truth, I pray that Richard and everyone else will commit themselves to truth- Whatever it is, where ever it leads- To say I will always follow the truth. It’s exactly what our savior told us “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free”.

Truth alone stands up to reason, because Truth is reality, and reason is all about perceiving reality. You follow the truth and it leads you to the true faith (which is itself truth). It’s faith based on truth as best as you perceive it, not a guessing game. And Yes, faith is also a gift from God- but it’s the gift that enables you to accept the truth, that circumvents the defensive tendencies in us that will embrace falsehoods just to avoid giving way. Commit to truth and God will give you the gift of faith.

Peace.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Forget it, my friend. There are no such prophecies, and our friend Richard knows it.

You are saying that the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeramiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and the rest of the minor prophets don’t exist?

You see, his position involves choosing blindly first, then looking for reasons for that choice afterward- It never works because it’s totally backward. And then of course, you’re not even looking for reasons at all but mere justifications and you’re not applying reason anymore but defensive tactics only. These never stand up to scrutiny because they are not true and are never about truth but only about defending one’s choice.

I guess you are right here Mary. My choice is based on a personal relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and this relationship is based on faith not reason and that faith is not open to scrutiny by you or anyone else.

Humans just don’t like to undo all the emotional, mental and spiritual investments we’ve made on a certain choice, we’d rather run from the truth than admit that our whole premise is false, our assumptions wrong.

My premise of faith in my Lord and Savior my be “wrong” in your eyes, but I am unconcerned with your scrutiny of my “emotional, mental and spiritual investments.” I am completely comfortable with them.

We all do this in many different ways- People remain in unhealthy situations because they’re already there, it’s too painful to accept that it’s wrong and begin from scratch.

Again you attack my FAITH in my Lord as being “unhealthy situations.”

It’s too painful to imagine that the Harlot of Babylon we’ve hated all this time is actually right…possibly even the very bride of Christ. But since reason is the only tool God has given us to seek truth, I pray that Richard and everyone else will commit themselves to truth- Whatever it is, where ever it leads- To say I will always follow the truth. It’s exactly what our savior told us “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free”.

Reason is not “the only tool God has given us to seek truth” God will give us the power of His Spirit.
Eph.1
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

The Father through His Spirit enlightens us and empowers us with the same power that raised Jesus from the dead.
But in order for that to happen we must be willing to die to ourselves, to our self righteousness, and yes our reason, and become totally and completely committed to the will of God.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

The scripture verse jn.8:32 you quote is incomplete. It goes along with v.31. Here it is along with some more of ch.8

31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Mary, Is not your advice that we put aside all this faith or belief in our Savior. Look at verse 44"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Isn’t this exactly what you are proposing Mary? That we should set aside faith and pick up our own “reason” and speak of our own.

Truth alone stands up to reason, because Truth is reality, and reason is all about perceiving reality. You follow the truth and it leads you to the true faith (which is itself truth). It’s faith based on truth as best as you perceive it, not a guessing game. And Yes, faith is also a gift from God- but it’s the gift that enables you to accept the truth, that circumvents the defensive tendencies in us that will embrace falsehoods just to avoid giving way. Commit to truth and God will give you the gift of faith.

Peace.

Jn.8
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jn.14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[jerry_joseph]

Is it reasonable to believe that God became man?

Is it reasonable to believe that God/man died on a cross?

Is it reasonable to believe that Jesus God/man came back from the dead?

Is it reasonable to believe much of what you profess?

It is because I believe in what the bible says.

What is your surety that the Bible is truly the word of God and you can trust what you can believe from this book?

The 100% accuracy of it’s prophecy’s. If the prophecy’s of past events came true, I can trust it’s veracity for future events. If it proves true in prophecy, I believe that it is the word of truth in all things. Why do you ask?

Tell me about these prophecies that are 100% accurate.

That’s for another thread.

This dialogue is from Mary-sinner Romans 3 and Richard Krastner reasonably does not believe that Mary is without sin. Richard Krastner reasonably believes as stated above. He suggested another thread. I invite Richard and all Protestants to tell about these prophecies that cause one to believe with reason that what I ask is true.

Coptic is red and Richard is blue.

You will get a 100% proof at the final judgement day. Now God is put before us life and death… We can choose it as per our free will… Choice is your’s.

 

[CopticChristian]

You are saying that the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeramiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and the rest of the minor prophets don’t exist?

I guess you are right here Mary. My choice is based on a personal relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and this relationship is based on faith not reason and that faith is not open to scrutiny by you or anyone else.

My premise of faith in my Lord and Savior my be “wrong” in your eyes, but I am unconcerned with your scrutiny of my “emotional, mental and spiritual investments.” I am completely comfortable with them.

Again you attack my FAITH in my Lord as being “unhealthy situations.”

Reason is not “the only tool God has given us to seek truth” God will give us the power of His Spirit.
Eph.1
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

The Father through His Spirit enlightens us and empowers us with the same power that raised Jesus from the dead.
But in order for that to happen we must be willing to die to ourselves, to our self righteousness, and yes our reason, and become totally and completely committed to the will of God.

All I ask Richard is that you recognize that Catholics too believe as you do, our relationship with the Lord is based on Faith and not reason and that Faith is not open to srutiny of anyone and honor the fact that Catholics too realize that Reason is not the only tool God has given us to seek truth. I honor you and I ask that you honor that our Faith determines that Mary is without sin, a matter of Faith in our Lord, not open to scrutiny by you or anyone else, since as you admit, and I agree I want you to give to me what you want for yourself…reason is not the only tool God gave the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church to declare and ask us to believe that Mary is sinless. Stop dishonoring my Faith in the sinless nature of Mary.

It was only because you were scrutinizing my Faith in declaring Mary to be sinless that I fell into the horrible acts and writings that you percieved to be scrutinizing your faith. For this I ask forgiveness. I ask you to pray for me.

Give to me what you want for yourself and pray for me as I will pray for you.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

All I ask Richard is that you recognize that Catholics too believe as you do, our relationship with the Lord is based on Faith and not reason and that Faith is not open to srutiny of anyone and honor the fact that Catholics too realize that Reason is not the only tool God has given us to seek truth. I honor you and I ask that you honor that our Faith determines that Mary is without sin, a matter of Faith in our Lord, not open to scrutiny by you or anyone else, since as you admit, and I agree I want you to give to me what you want for yourself…reason is not the only tool God gave the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church to declare and ask us to believe that Mary is sinless. Stop dishonoring my Faith in the sinless nature of Mary.

It was only because you were scrutinizing my Faith in declaring Mary to be sinless that I fell into the horrible acts and writings that you percieved to be scrutinizing your faith. For this I ask forgiveness. I ask you to pray for me.

Give to me what you want for yourself and pray for me as I will pray for you.

Cop, this whole thing started on Mary-sinner-Romans3? thread started by Joe370 Here’s the OP

Protestants, scripture says:* “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”* Romans 3:23

Meaning that Mary must have been a sinner too…

Scripture says: For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners…" Romans 5:19

Meaning that it was the disobedience of just the one man, as opposed to the first man and woman, that many were made sinners.

Those who believe that Jesus’ mother Mary was a sinner:

Could it possibly be wrong to interpret Romans 3 to include the woman Mary, the new Eve of creation, as a sinner, if it’s wrong to assume that Romans 5 contradicts Genesis 3 by excluding the first woman from Romans 5?

Now what this thread does is open the whole idea of Mary’s sinlessness to scrutiny. I just popped in with my 2 pennies worth that I believe that Rom.8:3 says in no uncertain terms that Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh and since Mary was the flesh that He came in the likeness of she must have been sinful.
Now you certainly have the right to belief anything you want and I certainly do respect that, but you see Cop this is a forum and the stated function of the non-Catholic part of this forum is (Non-Catholic Religions (55 Viewing) Comparing and contrasting beliefs)
So when I see something come up that I feel is in conflict to the word of God, I’m going to challenge it. Sometimes this doesn’t amount to much but sometimes, as in this case, it opens a can of worms. Now we should be clear here. I was not scrutinizing your faith, but merely answering a question on a forum thread. I do not apologize for this and certainly would and probably will do it again. What I do ask is forgiveness for any unkind remarks I may have made. This is certainly not what Christ would want. I certainly do accept your apology because Jesus says I should and I thank you for your prayers and I certainly have and will pray for you.

Peace brother

 

[CopticChristian]

Cop, this whole thing started on Mary-sinner-Romans3? thread started by Joe370 Here’s the OP

Now what this thread does is open the whole idea of Mary’s sinlessness to scrutiny. I just popped in with my 2 pennies worth that I believe that Rom.8:3 says in no uncertain terms that Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh and since Mary was the flesh that He came in the likeness of she must have been sinful.
Now you certainly have the right to belief anything you want and I certainly do respect that, but you see Cop this is a forum and the stated function of the non-Catholic part of this forum is (Non-Catholic Religions (55 Viewing) Comparing and contrasting beliefs)
So when I see something come up that I feel is in conflict to the word of God, I’m going to challenge it. Sometimes this doesn’t amount to much but sometimes, as in this case, it opens a can of worms. Now we should be clear here. I was not scrutinizing your faith, but merely answering a question on a forum thread. I do not apologize for this and certainly would and probably will do it again. What I do ask is forgiveness for any unkind remarks I may have made. This is certainly not what Christ would want. I certainly do accept your apology because Jesus says I should and I thank you for your prayers and I certainly have and will pray for you.

Peace brother

I never apologize. You say at the end of your post you are in Christ. While I may not say that I like to believe that. We who have been Baptized into his death have been resurected.

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

So I never apologize. I recognize my error, swallow my pride and ask for forgiveness. You were forgiven prior to your asking. We shall continue to pray without ceasing.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I never apologize. You say at the end of your post you are in Christ. **While I may not say that **I like to believe that. We who have been Baptized into his death have been resurected.

Why may you not say that?

Jn.17
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

So I never apologize. I recognize my error, swallow my pride and ask for forgiveness. You were forgiven prior to your asking. We shall continue to pray without ceasing.

I apologize, wrong word, but isn’t apologize and ask forgiveness the same thing? Well anyway I hope we’re good.