Reasoning behind Catholics living in invalid marriage?

[Psalm30]

You can be the most benevolent, self-sacrificing person in the world, and if you die with one unconfessed, unrepented mortal sin on your soul… you’re toast.

St. Paul says in Corinthians that good works, Faith, etc. are nothing without love…self-sacrificing love especially. What you’ve posted seems to contradict that.

I have a hard time believing that such a person would be in a state of mortal sin, with all three conditions of mortal sin met.

 

[Psalm30]

I asked this question because I wanted some insight into what makes these people tick.

My answer is not going to be popular, but…

Because they love the person they are invalidly married to and they want to be together, same as happily married couples who are in love and validly married.

Maybe they believe God is merciful and will forgive them because they felt they did the best they could. Jesus did send the message that love is more important than the law.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

You can be the most benevolent, self-sacrificing person in the world, and if you die with one unconfessed, unrepented mortal sin on your soul… you’re toast.

It is entirely possible that an outwardly good person could have a “pet sin” or sins which they do not intend to come to terms with, and are in hopes that all of the good they have accomplished will in some way “compensate” for this. You can be “self-sacrificing” for other people and yet be selfish with God.

 

[Psalm30]

It is entirely possible that an outwardly good person could have a “pet sin” or sins which they do not intend to come to terms with, and are in hopes that all of the good they have accomplished will in some way “compensate” for this. You can be “self-sacrificing” for other people and yet be selfish with God.

Yes…but that’s for God to judge, not you.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

It is entirely possible that an outwardly good person could have a “pet sin” or sins which they do not intend to come to terms with, and are in hopes that all of the good they have accomplished will in some way “compensate” for this. You can be “self-sacrificing” for other people and yet be selfish with God.

I have judged no one. I am entirely competent, and any faithful, orthodox Catholic is entirely competent, to point to mortally sinful behavior and say that this puts one in danger of hell. What I cannot do is crawl inside the head, heart, soul, and intellect of someone who is living in outwardly mortal sin, and say that they have full knowledge and understanding, and that they have full consent of the will.

 

[Psalm30]

I have judged no one. I am entirely competent, and any faithful, orthodox Catholic is entirely competent, to point to mortally sinful behavior and say that this puts one in danger of hell. What I cannot do is crawl inside the head, heart, soul, and intellect of someone who is living in outwardly mortal sin, and say that they have full knowledge and understanding, and that they have full consent of the will.

Well then, I think you’ve answered your own original question. Since you cannot crawl into someone’s inner self and see why they are living in invalid marriages, why not just make peace with the fact that each person will be held accountable for their own actions and pray for their preservation from mortal sin.

 

[Psalm30]

You can be “self-sacrificing” for other people and yet be selfish with God.

Sure it’s possible, but what we do for others honors God, as Jesus describes in His sermon about separating the sheep from the goats on judgement day.

“Whatsoever you did for the least of My brothers, you did for Me.”

 

[FiveLinden]

Well, there’s also the atheist perspective, which sounds like “There’s no god so it doesn’t matter” to “justify” it. Of course, like the rest of the “rationales,” this one falls flat.

There might be something in what you say if you meant ‘there is no god restricting my consenting sexual behaviour so of course I will not take what people who believe gods have communicated with the think about sex as a result of their belief that they have communicated with god(s)’. Putin general we don’t say ‘it doesn’t matter’ about personal relationships any more than anyone else. We are people with families like everyone else and like (almost) everyone else, seeking to good of others.

 

[FiveLinden]

Responding to the OP:

I think most Catholics that I have talked to have a point beyond which they don’t go in support of the Church teaching on marriage. They simply don’t believe it.

This is certainly the case with contraception. I have never understood the rationale for the Catholic position and I have read extensively on it. The case is simply unpersuasive. I think that is why you don’t see much in the way of Catholic outreach to persuade others of the position and instead a reliance on obedience to the Church.

Then there is the extreme nature of the advice to those in ‘invalid’ marriages: if the marriage can’t be validated, do not have sex for the rest of your lives, even if you stay together bringing up children. Yes, to many this is ‘extreme’ in the sense that it goes against every human instinct.

So people find they can’t believe, except out of obedience. And they don’t find this an ok way to make moral choices about their families. So they don’t.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I have judged no one. I am entirely competent, and any faithful, orthodox Catholic is entirely competent, to point to mortally sinful behavior and say that this puts one in danger of hell. What I cannot do is crawl inside the head, heart, soul, and intellect of someone who is living in outwardly mortal sin, and say that they have full knowledge and understanding, and that they have full consent of the will.

No, but I can seek to know why, by the reasons they give, they choose to live in objectively mortal sin. I am not in the least bit offended if someone asks me to give my defense of some behavior that they could point to, and ask me how I justify it. It could serve as a kind of fraternal correction — I am a sinner and if I sin openly, a fellow believer isn’t out of line to call it to my attention. Sometimes I’m just “busted” — “yep, you got me, that is wrong, I shouldn’t do that”. With God’s grace, I will correct myself going forward.

It is very, very important for contemporary people (at least in this country and culture) to be able to claim that anything they do is good, to feel good about themselves, and to think that nobody really sins or goes to hell except for really, really bad people like Hitler, Stalin, or Charles Manson. “Self-esteem” is the coin of the realm, and obituaries uniformly state that the deceased is now in heaven. In such a culture, reminders that mortal sins of the flesh, sins that many people persist in and live in, can have horrible eternal consequences aren’t well-received.

 

[QwertyGirl]

they choose to live in objectively mortal sin.

I think this is a problem. You don’t know they choose that at all. The Church is very clear about the conditions which need to be met before an action is a mortal sin. It is between them and God. Now, if you do an action, you will know for yourself if it is mortal sin. I would focus on that and quit worrying so much about what other people do and why they do it.

Of course you said “objectively” mortal sin. I understand what you meant (although I think “objectively grave act” is more appropriate), but again, you assume everyone subscribes to your version (or the Church’s version) of objective. It simply isn’t the way the world works. Just because you believe something is objective, doesn’t necessarily make it so.

If the Church says something is a grave act, and I hear about it, it only means that I know the Church teaches that that particular action is a grave act. It doesn’t mean I know it is grave. There is more that will need to go into processing that information before I am able to come to that conclusion. Of course, you will probably say “No, as Catholics we are supposed to believe what the Church tells us.” Maybe so, but that isn’t reality for many. This is why it is best not to try to figure out why other people make moral choices you wouldn’t make. You don’t need to spend the time and energy doing that, because you already have the answer. The answer is that we aren’t all the same.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

If the Church says something is a grave act, and I hear about it, it only means that I know the Church teaches that that particular action is a grave act. It doesn’t mean I know it is grave. There is more that will need to go into processing that information before I am able to come to that conclusion. Of course, you will probably say “No, as Catholics we are supposed to believe what the Church tells us.” Maybe so, but that isn’t reality for many. This is why it is best not to try to figure out why other people make moral choices you wouldn’t make. You don’t need to spend the time and energy doing that, because you already have the answer. The answer is that we aren’t all the same.

So, in essence, they are saying “I think the Church is wrong”. Is that correct?

 

[CilladeRoma]

Yes. Why is that so hard to understand?

Or, maybe they just don’t care because their faith isn’t really faith, it’s religion.

Or maybe they don’t understand why, so don’t see it as wrong.

There are as many reasons as there are people involved and no one but God knows who believes what. And TBH, it really only matters to God, since only He can do something about it.

 

[Psalm30]

No, but I can seek to know why, by the reasons they give, they choose to live in objectively mortal sin.

The only way to know that is to ask each person living in an invalid marriage why they are doing it and wait for their answer. But…honestly, they might not answer truthfully because they don’t want to reveal their true reasons. So even if you ask each person for their reasons, you might not get an accurate answer.

The options of what their reasons might be are limited. They either:

• Don’t know the Church’s teaching.

• Know the Church’s teaching and don’t agree with it.

• Know and agree with the Church’s teaching but believe there is a greater good to be had by living in their invalid marriage (children are involved, etc.) and truly believe God will be merciful with them because they truly feel they are doing the best they can.

• Know and agree with the Church’s teaching but don’t care about what the Church says and will do whatever they want regardless.

Just curious…what exactly do you intend to do with such information if you do obtain it?

 

[Psalm30]

that, because you already have the answer. The answer is that we aren’t all the same.

Bingo

10 Characters

 

[QwertyGirl]

“So, in essence, they are saying “I think the Church is wrong”. Is that correct?”

That is what many people believe, even though they are Catholic. It is why they are able to ignore certain teachings.

I guess I am still trying to understand what value you place on knowing their reasons. Asking someone about their invalid marriage is sort of the kind of thing polite people don’t do, I would suggest. It is sort of like "Why don’t you have any children? " and “How much money do you make?” Inapporopriate, at best. Now if you intimately know someone and they want to talk about it, I don’t see a problem with that at all. But then you will only have their answer (not everyone’s).

 

[Nmc]

I think they didnt believe or rebelled anyway against the teaching yrs b4. They now believe in the teaching, but are afraid to seek out aN anulment bc it could be rejected. Somewhat like the idea that it is better to say sorry later than ask permission now.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The options of what their reasons might be are limited. They either:

• Don’t know the Church’s teaching.

• Know the Church’s teaching and don’t agree with it.

• Know and agree with the Church’s teaching but believe there is a greater good to be had by living in their invalid marriage (children are involved, etc.) and truly believe God will be merciful with them because they truly feel they are doing the best they can.

• Know and agree with the Church’s teaching but don’t care about what the Church says and will do whatever they want regardless.

There is a fifth reason:

• Know and agree with the Church’s teaching, and gamble that they will either live long enough for the sinful situation to resolve itself (e.g., the original spouse to die), or that they will have enough advance notice of their death to set things right with God before they die. I have known of both of these scenarios. There could be great temporal advantage in their entering into, or remaining in, an invalid marriage — the self-actualization of both partners through romantic love, temporal happiness, wealth, prestige, sexual compatibility, and so on — and they could hope to “have their cake and eat it too”, gaining these advantages and having an eventual way out of the sinful situation.

Just curious…what exactly do you intend to do with such information if you do obtain it?

To understand what a person’s motivations could be, and thereby know how to reach them if, indeed, I ever have anyone in my life where I could either make a difference, or someone for whom I am responsible. My own son (age 12) may one day choose, despite everything I’ve ever taught him, to attempt an invalid marriage. Knowing how to reach him would be very, very important.

 

[Nmc]

I imagine he wants to know their reasons bc:
1.) He desires them to receive all the divine grace that will surely be poured forth if they validate their marriage.
2.) He wants to encourage them and knowing their reasons might assist him. Even if he just prays for them.
3.) In short he wants to know bc he loves them.

 

[Nmc]

Tell that to the saints. Mother Theresa- the pen in God’s hand.