Reasoning to lift clerical celibacy

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dominikus28

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I have heard many atheists and non-Catholics say that the Church should lift the celibacy requirement for priests to reduce the amount of pedophilia. I want to know, what is their reasoning? Can anyone explain to me, because I don’t get it.

I know that pedophilia in the Church is overblown in the media, so that it is not exclusive to the Church, and happens in other religions and institutions, sometimes at higher rates. The media makes it sound as if every second priest is a pedophile, and I know that is incorrect. I am simply interested in how they connect ‘celibacy’ to ‘pedophilia’. How do they think allowing priests to get married would reduce pedophilia?

If a person is a pedophile, I doubt he will get married anyway. It’s as if they are saying that there are no pedophiles who are married men. I’m sure that there are married men out there, who are also pedophiles.
If a man would consider pedophilia as a valid option to satisfy his sexual urges, that is a sick problem he has regardless of his marital status. Why would allowing a man like that to get married get rid of the problem? If he lusts after children, then that won’t disappear if he is married to a grown woman, because his lust for children still hasn’t been satisfied. It would be like saying we should allow gay men to get married (to women, which is allowed) to get rid of sodomy. If a guy wants sodomy, giving him a woman won’t help.

Sorry if I used any language which is offensive or inappropriate for this forum.
 
dominikus28 said:
I have heard many atheists and non-Catholics say that the Church should lift the celibacy requirement for priests to reduce the amount of pedophilia. I want to know, what is their reasoning? Can anyone explain to me, because I don’t get it.
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I think their argument (which I disagree with) goes as follows (the “logic” is in the bullets, my comments are in italics):
  1. Priestly celibacy discourages heterosexual men from entering the priesthood.
    Not necessarily true, and more a function of local culture than of the Church.
  2. This leads to a “selection bias” whereas those who are gay, or even overtly pedophilic, enter the priesthood more often than expected.
    This one may be true, but it will continue to be true even if we permit married priests to join. A man in a stable and loving relationship with his wife is very unlikely to also be a pedophile.
  3. Once these men enter the priesthood, they have trouble controlling their urges, leading to acts of pedophilia and ephebophilia which cause scandal.
    True. But admitting married men can cause its own set of scandals. Jimmy Swaggart, anyone?
  4. Therefore, allowing the clergy to marry would allow more non-pedophilic, heterosexual men to become priests, and would keep the influx of homosexuals and pedophiles at bay.
    *This doesn’t necessarily follow. They would still join, and would have their own subculture, as they do in the secular world. In a secular college or university, the presence of heterosexual faculty *
Not only is this logic full of holes, it neglects the fact that priestly celibacy is in the service of the Kingdom of God, something that our sex-obsessed world has trouble understanding. 😦
 
RPRPsych said:
Not only is this logic full of holes, it neglects the fact that priestly celibacy is in the service of the Kingdom of God, something that our sex-obsessed world has trouble understanding. 😦
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You explained that very well, thanks. It seems quite simple to refute their arguments like you have, but I guess if they want something to be true, they will rationalize and ignore reason.
 
Ever notice how homosexuality is only bad if a Catholic Priest practices it?

Has anyone ever actually asked a Priest what he thinks of celibacy? They view it as a gift. A gift! So, these “concerned” others propose to take this gift of God away from the priesthood so as to, what, make them somehow happier? Do none of them read what Saint Paul taught about celibacy?

It is not an argument that one makes from a position of knowledge.
 
Another argument is that a celibate priesthood leads to a scarcity of priests, so that the Church has to hang on to homosexual priests or even those accused of pedophilia.

No one has said that homosexuality (or homosexual acts) is bad only if a Catholic practices it.
 
Boccherini said:
Another argument is that a celibate priesthood leads to a scarcity of priests, so that the Church has to hang on to homosexual priests or even those accused of pedophilia.

No one has said that homosexuality (or homosexual acts) is bad only if a Catholic practices it.
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Well, there’s a very good model for comparison here. Ask the Orthodox. They allow priests to be married, so what are the statistics on the numbers of their priests? Do they have a priest shortage as well, and if so, how serious is it compared to the United States?
 
rossum said:
To promote union with the Eastern Orthodox Church, since they have married priests.

rossum
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Of course, the Roman rite doesn’t make up the totality of the priesthood in the Catholic Church. There are several Eastern rites that allow a married priesthood. So far, it hasn’t brought us nearer to reconciliation with the various Orthodox churches. Orthodoxy itself is not united. I doubt a married Roman rite priesthood would change anything.

@Boccherini… Scarcity of priests in the Roman rite has more to do with families having less children and the adoption of secular values by Catholics than it has to do with celibacy. If a family has only one son they are less likely to encourage him to become a priest and thus “rob” them of grandchildren.

Also, many Catholics have accepted the erroneous notion that sexuality is the end all and be all of earthly happiness–an idea our culture accepts because it has no value for or understanding of a life of sacrifice and self-giving–a concept the world, especially in our times, actively denigrates. Hardly an atmosphere in which vocations can flourish.
 
Boccherini said:
Another argument is that a celibate priesthood leads to a scarcity of priests, so that the Church has to hang on to homosexual priests or even those accused of pedophilia.

No one has said that homosexuality (or homosexual acts) is bad only if a Catholic practices it.
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True it is not only Priest, but anyone in a position of authority over his partner. The presumption is made that the Priest is always in that position with his partner, unless the partner is his Bishop, if he has any belief and by some faith communities doctrine even if the partner has no belief.
 
I think there is also the assumption that a lack of sexual behavior causes distortion in the mind, leading to distorted behavior, and that only negating that lack would eliminate the behavior.

Unproven, to say the least. Organizations that have never had celibacy have had pedophilic issues (scouting, schools, non-Catholic religions, etc).

But this argument goes hand in glove with the disappearance of faith from the public square. Everybody has forgotten that the 2 best human beings who ever breathed (our LORD and the BVM) lived their lives without seeking or needing sexual behavior. As good as it is, it can be sacrificed for a higher good.

Sadly, as our culture has come to despise Life, it has begun to worship Sex.

ICXC NIKA
 
rossum said:
To promote union with the Eastern Orthodox Church, since they have married priests.

rossum
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You know that there are several Rites of the Catholic Church that have married clergy, right? I can’t remember which particular Eastern Catholic Ritesdo, but it is also worth noting that, in the U.S., there are around 80 Latin Rite married Catholic priests (these are Anglican converts).

To the O.P. the notion that lifting the requirement of preistly celibacy would mean that there would be no more child abuse is silly. Celibacy no more causes pedophilia than marriage causes spousal infidelity (or pedophilia among married men and women, for that matter). Sexual disorder is something that is very deep seated, something that simple lifestyle factors neither aggravate nor assuage to any real degree. To put it simply, a pedophile is going to have a disordered sexual desire towards children, regardless of his other situations in life
 
Aquila_Lucis said:
You know that there are several Rites of the Catholic Church that have married clergy, right? I can’t remember which particular Eastern Catholic Ritesdo, but it is also worth noting that, in the U.S., there are around 80 Latin Rite married Catholic priests (these are Anglican converts).

To the O.P. the notion that lifting the requirement of preistly celibacy would mean that there would be no more child abuse is silly. Celibacy no more causes pedophilia than marriage causes spousal infidelity (or pedophilia among married men and women, for that matter). Sexual disorder is something that is very deep seated, something that simple lifestyle factors neither aggravate nor assuage to any real degree. To put it simply, a pedophile is going to have a disordered sexual desire towards children, regardless of his other situations in life
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Not all of them are Anglican converts, one of the priests in my parish is a Lutheran convert (Missouri Synod too, LOL)
 
dominikus28 said:
I have heard many atheists and non-Catholics say that the Church should lift the celibacy requirement for priests to reduce the amount of pedophilia. I want to know, what is their reasoning? Can anyone explain to me, because I don’t get it.
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That argument reeks a lot of “give em what they want or the kids get it!!!” Also of a total misapprehension of the way strong male sex drive works, though that doesn’t surprise me – atheists are typically leftists and there’s plenty of evidence out there indicating that leftists are, both by nature and nurture, more prone to androgyny. (Which is maybe why they’re OK with drowning society in pornography. Doesn’t bother them, after all).

I suspect what underlies it is simply a desire to smash the Church and its priesthood by making it a thing of the world. No faster way to do that than with sex.
 
Apologies for being crude, but we live in a crude world. An awful lot of guys (can’t speak for you ladies) have comvinced themselves that they can’t live without routine sexual gratification. Anybody who says otherwise or, worse, LIVES otherwise is a threat to that rationalization. (and we all love our pet rationalizations, don’t we?) So such men must be denigrated and dismissed as lunatics, liars or monsters. Monsters, if possible. Thanks to the very real abuser priest scandal, monster is a doable smear tactic, so it is used.

The logic goes like this:
  1. Of course every man needs to get it frequently.
  2. We can’t expect catholics to change their teaching on marriage and sex any time soon.
  3. We might as well get these guys hooked up with wives because obviously not ‘getting it’ is screwing them up and turning them into monsters!
That’s what passes for logic these days!
 
dominikus28 said:
IIf a person is a pedophile, I doubt he will get married anyway. It’s as if they are saying that there are no pedophiles who are married men. I’m sure that there are married men out there, who are also pedophiles.
If a man would consider pedophilia as a valid option to satisfy his sexual urges, that is a sick problem he has regardless of his marital status. Why would allowing a man like that to get married get rid of the problem? If he lusts after children, then that won’t disappear if he is married to a grown woman…
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Marriage & pedophilia are not an “either-or” proposition.

In fact there are men who get married, have children, and then sexually abuse them. I won’t say it’s common, but I know a couple (now divorced) where that is alleged to have happened. Said man is not outwardly creepy or weird, in fact is a big shot college professor, which by itself is scary. My guess is that he was also abused by his own father, and is now passing it on. Who knows, he may not have even known he had this sickness until he had his own kids - depending on your situation in life, you may not have a lot of contact with young kids to even realize you have these urges.

The sad truth about sexual abuse of kids is that the vast majority of it happens within families - not necessarily parents abusing their own kids, could also be older cousin abusing younger cousin, an aunt or uncle, a step-parent, a live-in boyfriend, etc. Many possible variations. This even happened to my mom many years ago, a particular uncle from out of town. Years later when she confided in her cousin, it turned out the cousin had the same experience with this uncle. It’s hard to say how often it really occurs, because (a) kids often carry these secrets for many years, and (b) families try to “keep it in the family”. Kind of the way the Church did. We should hold the Church to a very high standard, much higher than they have been doing. But in the meantime there are untold numbers of children suffering with this, with no voice, and no way to stop it. Man that’s depressing. It might make some question their faith in God, but I think it certainly clarifies the reality of Sin and Evil, and that there are still a lot of broken people out there.
 
dominikus28 said:
I have heard many atheists and non-Catholics say that the Church should lift the celibacy requirement for priests to reduce the amount of pedophilia. I want to know, what is their reasoning?
Click to expand...
It is poor reasoning. For one thing take a look at what this particular man said:
The poorer an age is in faith, the more frequent the falls. This robs celibacy of its credibility and obscures the real point of it. People need to get straight in their minds that times of crisis for celibacy are always times of crisis for marriage as well. For, as a matter of fact, today we are experiencing not only violations of celibacy; marriage itself is becoming increasingly fragile as the basis of our society. In the legislation of Western nations we see how it is increasingly placed on the same level as other forms and is thereby largely “dissolved” as a legal form. Nor is the hard work needed really to live marriage negligible. Put in practical terms, after the abolition of celibacy we would only have a different kind of problem with divorced priests. That is not unknown in the Protestant Churches. In this sense, we see, of course, that the lofty forms of human existence involve great risks.
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Just to expand on my earlier “they don’t get how strong male sex drive works” point, let us consider the argument on offer, which is evidently, “priests should be allowed to marry or else they might molest teenaged boys.”

Now, implicit in this is the idea that priests molest teenaged boys because they’re horny and have no outlet for their desires because they can’t marry. Why, then, don’t they simply sleep with women? After all, they’re breaking their promise of celibacy either way, but at least by sleeping with women, they aren’t also breaking the law. If the answer is “because they can’t get women to sleep with them,” how in the world do we imagine lifting the celibacy requirement will fix this?

So maybe it’s the case they molest teenaged boys not because they’re hapless heterosexuals unjustly constrained by an eeeeebil patriarchal power structure they voluntarily submitted to, but because their sexual desires are deeply, deeply disordered and they should never have been admitted to the priesthood in the first place.
 
Boccherini said:
Another argument is that a celibate priesthood leads to a scarcity of priests, so that the Church has to hang on to homosexual priests or even those accused of pedophilia.

No one has said that homosexuality (or homosexual acts) is bad only if a Catholic practices it.
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The priest shortage is real in other Christian denominations. So this is a false belief.

Peace,
Ed
 
I recommend the Catholic League analysis of the John Jay report, which can be found HERE. The John Jay report and it’s follow-up can both be found at the USCCB website as well.

Celibacy had nothing to do with it.
 
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