Reasons not to be Catholic?

[dvdjs]

It is equally “silly” to omit the actions of the Roman Pontiff in the matter.

Huh?

 

[Victor777]

Dear All,

I am a protestant. I am new to these forums and would like to share my views…

It all boils down to the Word of God, bible. How much do you trust it… Every word… some of the word , OR… The various denominations of church are the same… Charismatic, Baptists, Bethesda… n so on. What matters is we obey the bible 100%. When there is difference interpretations, we will pray for Holy Spirit for councelling, and we will use other verses to have a overall better understanding.

The Catholic church among many other things teaches differently from the bible.

i) Where is it stated that Mary is perpetual virgin?
(See my answer under If Jesus had blood brotherand sisters)

ii) It amend the 10 commandents. There are 9 commendments in the catholic bible. Check any other bible, there are 100s, and they all have 10. This is missing,

Commandent 2
You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Catholic Church has maintain that this commandment is listed in the Canon, but not the bible. Check it… google…

Regards

Victor

 

[Mberg3]

guanophore, you seem capable of only believing someone could ever possibly leave the Roman Church because they didn’t understand what she taught. Instead of having you tell me I didn’t know what I believed, I’m just going to refuse to engage you any longer. Enjoy telling people what they do or do not understand or believe.

It’s funny, both atheists and many of the Roman Catholics on this board seem to believe that they are the only ones who truly understand everything, and if the rest of us would just listen long enough we’d agree with them. I suppose I shouldn’t point fingers, I used to be one of you. My previous posts attest to that. Ah well.

I have encountered this with Guanophore as well. It is best to not engage in conversation, it will only lead to insensitive accusations and other non-sense. I see that they have already suggested that you are secretly an atheist too. For what ever reason some people are so confident that anyone who disagrees with them is wrong that it becomes insulting.

Moving on, I am interested in your opinions on the differences between the OC and the CC. I want to convert to one of these faiths and it seems as though they are both relatively similar. Since the post is “reasons not to be Catholic” what are the basic reasons for chosing the OC to the CC for someone who is new to the proccess?

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Return to the subject of the OP and cease from any personal remarks

 

[hn160]

For the most part, we are what we were born into and catechized into. I was taught that Lutherans were Evangelical Catholics. I could not swim the Tiber because in good conscience I could not adhere to all the doctrines of the Roman Church and the same way with the Eastern Church.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Bettan89;7791770]I’ve seen a lot of sites on the Internet arguing why one should not become a Catholic. But then I’ve never seen what they think you should be instead. To me it seems like if the Catholic church is not the Church founded by Christ, then the Truth has not been preserved in any church. Because historically, the Catholic church is the first church, and everyone else have broken up from this one, at least that’s my knowledge. So if I seek to find The Church and The Truth, and I for some reason have found the Catholic church not to be the One, then whitch church should I go to??

As you follow Christianity since the resurrection to today, you will only find the Catholic church existing. All others have separated from this Catholic Faith. The Catholic Church has no other founder laying claim to her except Jesus Christ, researching all others you will find them started by men or women.

The question arises then Orthodox or Catholic? Both maintain valid sacraments, valid holy orders and both trace their apostolic origins to the original apostles.

The deciding factor for me between these two pillars from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is revealed from the words of Jesus himself recorded in the gospels, building His Church upon Peter, commanding Peter to feed and tend His flock before Jesus ascended to heaven, gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven and the power to bind and loose. It is True although; Jesus ultimately gave this power to forgive and retain sin to all His apostles and Jesus promised Peter and His apostles to be with them always.

This always is what history proves, that in all the apostolic See’s, only one remained faithful to the teachings of Jesus and only one apostolic see never fell into heresy. History records only one remained faithful these past 2000 years the “see of Peter”.

History records The Roman Catholic See in Peter’s chair residing in an unbroken line of apostolic succession in the Popes, is the only apostolic see which came under attack many times by both friend and foe, and yet the Chair of Peter never knelt down to heretics nor heresies as the other Eastern patriarchs fell out of Catholic Orthodoxy into Heterodoxy at one time or another…

Peter fell 3 times once and Jesus was there in his presence, Jesus never left Peter alone. Jesus prays for Peter alone,(Luke 22:31 “Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, 32 but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers.”

This prayer of Jesus for Peter’s faith is fulfilled in Peter himself and continues with all his apostolic successors in the popes.

Peace be with you, and may no one snatch you out of God’s hand as you journey.

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand.
29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, 13 and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand.

 

[joe370]

Hey Bettan89…

I’ve seen a lot of sites on the Internet arguing why one should not become a Catholic. But then I’ve never seen what they think you should be instead. To me it seems like if the Catholic church is not the Church founded by Christ, then the Truth has not been preserved in any church.

Unless of course one of the Protestant Churches was founded by Christ circa AD 33, but, as a former protestant, in my quest to identify said church, I failed in toto.

Because historically, the Catholic church is the first church, and everyone else have broken up from this one, at least that’s my knowledge. So if I seek to find The Church and The Truth, and I for some reason have found the Catholic church not to be the One, then whitch church should I go to??

The only viable solution, in my humble opinion, would be to identify another church that can trace her lineage all the way back to the apostolic age, without going through the Catholic Church of course. I can only think of one.

Therefore I wonder if anyone who is not a Catholic or anyone who has converted from the Catholic church to another church could tell me which church you believe is the true one? Because I strongly want to believe that Christ has preserved His Truth along history, and if the Catholic church bears the Truth, then I see no reasons why one should not belong to it.

Seems reasonable.

A lot of people make their choice of church based on which church best suits their beliefs and interests. But IF their is a Truth, then does it really matter what I think? I would rather obey to the Truth of the Lord than seeking the church with the best priest, songs or people.

Also reasonable. Truth, after all, is not relative; there can be only one truth regarding any one teaching, and scripture seems pretty clear that the Holy spirit continues to guide Jesus’ church into all truth until the end of time.

 

[joe370]

Excellent points.

As you follow Christianity since the resurrection to today, you will only find the Catholic church existing. All others have separated from this Catholic Faith. The Catholic Church has no other founder laying claim to her except Jesus Christ, researching all others you will find them started by men or women.

The question arises then Orthodox or Catholic? Both maintain valid sacraments, valid holy orders and both trace their apostolic origins to the original apostles.

The deciding factor for me between these two pillars from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is revealed from the words of Jesus himself recorded in the gospels, building His Church upon Peter, commanding Peter to feed and tend His flock before Jesus ascended to heaven, gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven and the power to bind and loose. It is True although; Jesus ultimately gave this power to forgive and retain sin to all His apostles and Jesus promised Peter and His apostles to be with them always.

This always is what history proves, that in all the apostolic See’s, only one remained faithful to the teachings of Jesus and only one apostolic see never fell into heresy. History records only one remained faithful these past 2000 years the “see of Peter”.

History records The Roman Catholic See in Peter’s chair residing in an unbroken line of apostolic succession in the Popes, is the only apostolic see which came under attack many times by both friend and foe, and yet the Chair of Peter never knelt down to heretics nor heresies as the other Eastern patriarchs fell out of Catholic Orthodoxy into Heterodoxy at one time or another…

Peter fell 3 times once and Jesus was there in his presence, Jesus never left Peter alone. Jesus prays for Peter alone,(Luke 22:31 “Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, 32 but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers.”

This prayer of Jesus for Peter’s faith is fulfilled in Peter himself and continues with all his apostolic successors in the popes.

Peace be with you, and may no one snatch you out of God’s hand as you journey.

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand.
29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, 13 and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand.

 

[joe370]

For the most part, we are what we were born into and catechized into. I was taught that Lutherans were Evangelical Catholics. I could not swim the Tiber because in good conscience I could not adhere to all the doctrines of the Roman Church and the same way with the Eastern Church.

I agree; we are what we were born into and catechized into…

How should one determine church affiliation? Should one attempt to find the historical church founded by Jesus circa AD 33, in Jerusalem, on Pentecost, trusting that Jesus will preserve His truths in His church until His return, or should one search for a church that conforms, (doctrinally speaking) - completely to what one believes to be truth?

 

[joe370]

If the Catholic Church is the church founded by God, then I cannot think of one reason not to belong to the Catholic Church.

I’ve seen a lot of sites on the Internet arguing why one should not become a Catholic. But then I’ve never seen what they think you should be instead. To me it seems like if the Catholic church is not the Church founded by Christ, then the Truth has not been preserved in any church. Because historically, the Catholic church is the first church, and everyone else have broken up from this one, at least that’s my knowledge. So if I seek to find The Church and The Truth, and I for some reason have found the Catholic church not to be the One, then whitch church should I go to??

Therefore I wonder if anyone who is not a Catholic or anyone who has converted from the Catholic church to another church could tell me which church you believe is the true one? Because I strongly want to believe that Christ has preserved His Truth along history, and if the Catholic church bears the Truth, then I see no reasons why one should not belong to it.

A lot of people make their choice of church based on which church best suits their beliefs and interests. But IF their is a Truth, then does it really matter what I think? I would rather obey to the Truth of the Lord than seeking the church with the best priest, songs or people.

 

[lazydaisy67]

I’ve wanted to jump in on conversations like this but always hesitate. I guess I think it’s because it’s pretty pointless. I do have to say that with the exception of the people on this forum, I have NEVER heard a Catholic talk about reading the Bible, let alone quote a Bible verse except the Peter the Pope verse in Matthew. I’ve never known a Catholic who believes that the Eucharist is transformed in some way to the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ. When I’ve tried to get them to clarify that for me they usually just say, “I don’t know, that’s just what they tell us”. I’ve heard that Catholics don’t worship Mary, the Saints and icons and what-not, but it’s not what I actually SEE in practice. I’ve SEEN people bowing down in front of a statue of Mary. I guess that’s just veneration. I don’t know the difference. I have a Bible, I read it daily and it all seems pretty clear to me (except maybe the book of Revelation) and I don’t have problems understanding it. I’ve read the Catholic Bible too, and don’t have any problems understanding that either. I’ve had Catholic friends tell me that they have to hurry up and go to confession before they go to the bar so that they can confess about the fornication they’ll be committing that night??? Seriously? I’ve had Catholic friends tell me they’re giving up Diet Coke for lent cause they like Mt. Dew better. I even knew a Catholic girl in college who protested at an abortion clinic the week after she had had an abortion there!
Now either I’ve had the WORST examples of Catholic friends on the planet, or there’s a whole lot of misconception within the church as well as outside of it. I’ve read the posts that bash the “fundies”, or “born agains” as if that’s something bad, or just plain Protestant and yet Pope John Paul told the audience in Denver that NOBODY would go to heaven unless they did what John 3:3 says. By the way, that verse says you must be born again.
Maybe the OP’s question should be “Reasons not to be Religious”. Perhaps that’s what Jesus was trying to address when he challenged the Pharisees and Sadducees. They certainly were “religious” but didn’t have the ability to see the truth even when He looked them in the eyes. I believe God wants relationship, not religion. He gave us His word to show us what and who He is. If He hadn’t desired a relationship with humans, why would He have bothered showing us how to get to know Him? He gave us His Son so that ALL could be saved. I don’t know, just thinking out loud. Not to start a fight, just more observation than anything. I’ll probably get booted for this.

 

[God_is_Dead]

I don’t think any church is needed for spiritual fulfillment. After looking into different faiths to fill what I thought was a void in my life, I’ve come to live by this quote from Thomas Paine: “My own mind is my own church.” Simply put, I believe in myself and strive to cultivate the strength that is within me, and if that leads me to discover God, then I will discover him in due time, but as of yet it hasn’t happened. I don’t feel any presence outside myself that would suggest there is anything more than what I can sense, so I embrace what I can sense. I find wonder in life and nature–the existence of God is irrelevant to this wonder, because it exists with or without him.

These are my reasons I’m not Catholic, or of any religion. Simply put, I have no desire to be. At one time I did, but nothing felt right. I’ve grown up in a home without religion, and I’m thankful for it.

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t think any church is needed for spiritual fulfillment. After looking into different faiths to fill what I thought was a void in my life, I’ve come to live by this quote from Thomas Paine: “My own mind is my own church.” Simply put, I believe in myself and strive to cultivate the strength that is within me, and if that leads me to discover God, then I will discover him in due time, but as of yet it hasn’t happened. I don’t feel any presence outside myself that would suggest there is anything more than what I can sense, so I embrace what I can sense. I find wonder in life and nature–the existence of God is irrelevant to this wonder, because it exists with or without him.

These are my reasons I’m not Catholic, or of any religion. Simply put, I have no desire to be. At one time I did, but nothing felt right. I’ve grown up in a home without religion, and I’m thankful for it.

The reason to be anything is because it’s true, not because it gives one “spiritual fulfillment”.

Truth trumps everything.

One could be very “spirituall fulfilled” by believing in Santa–it makes him happy to believe such a figure exists, and it makes him good–but is that really how one gauges what to believe?

 

[hn160]

I agree; we are what we were born into and catechized into…

How should one determine church affiliation? Should one attempt to find the historical church founded by Jesus circa AD 33, in Jerusalem, on Pentecost, trusting that Jesus will preserve His truths in His church until His return, or should one search for a church that conforms, (doctrinally speaking) - completely to what one believes to be truth?

If you don’t agree with the doctrines of the church of the church that you are attending, then leave and find one that you can agree with. In my case, I couldn’t swim the Tiber because I couldn’t agree with all Roman Catholic doctrines. Why be a fake?

 

[guanophore]

For the most part, we are what we were born into and catechized into. I was taught that Lutherans were Evangelical Catholics. I could not swim the Tiber because in good conscience I could not adhere to all the doctrines of the Roman Church and the same way with the Eastern Church.

Which doctrines are those? If you already posted this sorry I missed it.

 

[PRmerger]

If you don’t agree with the doctrines of the church of the church that you are attending, then leave and find one that you can agree with.

This, to me, seems quite backwards.

One should not find a church that conforms to one’s beliefs, but conform one’s beliefs to the Truth.

If one is church shopping this seems to be a behavior in which one is creating a god in one’s own image. “Let me find a god that has all the qualities I believe he needs:
-loving–check!
-all powerful–check!
-not too demanding–check!
-lets me give alms when I feel like it–check!
–says I can divorce and re-marry–check!
-lets me attend my friends’ homosexual “commitment ceremony”–check!”

 

[GaryTaylor]

Also, I think the Orthodox here will say that the CC broke away from the one true Church.

Jon

They might say that. Then the Catholics might also say the Arianism was rampant in the East and they were in HERESY.

Well,than as time pasted COMMUNINISM and the Kremlim took over the ROC and the Bishops were elected by the KGB?

So I would say the “TRUTH IS” the Real Church,is,and still remains the Catholic Church and that is the TRUTH.

God Bless, Gary

 

[joe370]

If you don’t agree with the doctrines of the church of the church that you are attending, then leave and find one that you can agree with. In my case, I couldn’t swim the Tiber because I couldn’t agree with all Roman Catholic doctrines. Why be a fake?

I think understand. So the teachings of the LC-MS Lutheran church best match your beliefs of what Jesus taught? Correct me if I am wrong, but what it seems to come down to, for you, is not what any one church teaches but rather, whether or not the teachings of any one church properly conform to your expectations of what Jesus taught, which ultimately makes you, as opposed to any one church, the final authority for settling and determining doctrinal matters of faith, and I ask with the utmost respect?

 

[Rawb]

I fail to see your point with these.

They might say that. Then the Catholics might also say the Arianism was rampant in the East and they were in HERESY.

What’s your point? Heresies are present in both East and West. We may point out, with all due charity of course, that the West is still dealing with Protestantism.

Well,than as time pasted COMMUNINISM and the Kremlim took over the ROC and the Bishops were elected by the KGB?

Well,than as time pasted the nobility and the Italian families known for their criminal activity took over the RCC and the Bishops were elected by simony?

 

[duneman]

I call the Catholic Church the “Mother Church” and some of her children have gone astray