Reasons you love the Extraordinary Form

[cathguy]

Here is a positive thread for people to give their reasons why they love the Traditional Latin Mass.

My list:

It is said ad orientem
It is in latin
It has beautiful old chants
Its prayers are deep and theologically rich
For 2000 years it underwent only organic development.

What are your reasons?

 

[bpbasilphx]

The “Traditional Latin Mass” or Extraordinary Form, as the Pope himself prefers to call it, is not the “Mass of the Ages”, because there are authorized Eucharistic Liturgies in the Church that are much older.

When the Tridentine Missal was first promulgated by St. Pius V, in Quo primum, he called it a NEW RITE.

Therefore, even a saint taught that the EF is NOT the “Mass of the Ages”.

BTW, did you know that even before V2, the Tridentine Mass was NOT everywhere celebrated in Latin?

 

[ProVobis]

When the Tridentine Missal was first promulgated by St. Pius V, in Quo primum, **he called it **a NEW RITE.

Bishop, you keep spreading this falsehood. You need to read the original Latin. You just read an error-filled translation. No way, no how was the Tridentine Missal a new rite, such as the Trent canon anathematized anyone for creating.

Cathguy, same reasons here.

 

[fish90]

I have also heard argument that the EF is not 2000 years old and that the same love that is expressed could be the same for the OF. The problem is how reverent the Mass is said!

I love the lack of creative thinking that can take place among most of cathguy’s list.

However, the Holy Father still expressed concern and did find faults in the EF and so needed reform.

*Concerning the “so-called Tridentine liturgy”, he writes, there is “no such thing. The Council of Trent did not ‘make’ a liturgy”, he points out. The 1570 Missal is a revised version of the Roman Missal of about 100 years earlier, and differed only in tiny details. Pope Pius V promoted the exclusive use of the Missal to “help get rid of the uncertainties which had arisen in the confusion of liturgical movements in the Reformation period”, Cardinal Ratzinger writes, noting that an exception was made at that time for liturgies that were 200 or more years old, which were permitted to co-exist with the “new” revised Missal.

“We must say to the ‘Tridentines’ that the Church’s liturgy is alive, like the Church herself, and is always involved in a process of maturing.… The Missal can no more be mummified than the Church herself”, he writes.

He deplores that after Vatican II the “new Missal was published as if it were a book put together by professors, not a phase of a continual growth process. Such a thing has never happened before. It is absolutely contrary to the laws of liturgical growth”.10 While this is disturbing, Cardinal Ratzinger nevertheless strongly affirms that “as far as its contents are concerned (apart from a few criticisms) I am very grateful for the new Missal”, noting especially that it contains more prayers, and permits the vernacular.

But he also remarked that the “old liturgy” was flawed. In particular, he notes that “the celebration of the old liturgy had slipped too much into the domain of the individual and the private, and that the communion between priests and faithful was insufficient” – that people privately recited prayers from their prayer books during most of the Mass. He suggests that these factors probably accounted for the indifference of most Catholics when the old liturgical books disappeared: “People had never been in contact with the liturgy itself”. *
adoremus.org/0906BenedictXVI.html

Best,
fish90

 

[Ignatius]

Actually, the liturgy of the ages is the liturgy of St. James or St. Mark, Far older than the Tridentine.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Why can’t us who enjoy the TLM; who grew up with the TLM; who had no problems with the TLM; not be attacked by our own fellow Roman Catholics much less clergy from our separated brethren?

We are only four posts into the thread and the thread is already disrailed. What was intended to be a positive thread has become a source of bickering and minutea.

Bishop Basil; we are entitled to use our own terminology. It is for those of us who subsist in the Latin Rite Roman Catholic Church to correct our brethren. I have learned a great deal of history from you but you consistently derail threads with your own personal agenda.

Why?

I am so disgusted that I am not going to post any more.

 

[Seamus_L]

The fact that the priest faces the altar and not the people. The fact that there is an altar and not a table. The use of Latin. The poweful language of the TLM which make it an outpouring of repentence.

 

[corsair]

This thread started out to be very good; then bpbasil showed up again. And fish90 throws cold water on the thread too.

Thanks for the try Cathguy, but this type of stuff is enough to drive me away from CAF.

Enough said.

 

[pro_multis]

Why can’t us who enjoy the TLM; who grew up with the TLM; who had no problems with the TLM; not be attacked by our own fellow Roman Catholics much less clergy from our separated brethren?

We are only four posts into the thread and the thread is already disrailed. What was intended to be a positive thread has become a source of bickering and minutea.

Bishop Basil; we are entitled to use our own terminology. It is for those of us who subsist in the Latin Rite Roman Catholic Church to correct our brethren. I have learned a great deal of history from you but you consistently derail threads with your own personal agenda.

Why?

I am so disgusted that I am not going to post any more.

Modernist priests are concerned about the resurgance of the traditional mass (and what this represents), and rightfully so. Don’t expect latin mass obstructionists to relent; too much as stake.

 

[archangel04]

Why can’t us who enjoy the TLM; who grew up with the TLM; who had no problems with the TLM; not be attacked by our own fellow Roman Catholics much less clergy from our separated brethren?

I think some people just love to start trouble? In saying so, this is exactly how I feel from alot of the “traditionals”. Even though I love the EF, but love the OF as well, I always read these post that make me feel like the “traditionals’” are better then the OF attendees. In fact a while back I had a member message me telling me how the EF is the real valid mass, because the OF was in err.

In saying that, I love the EF, even though I don’t understand the language, but the chants, prayers, and rubics are something that still amazes me. I wish we had the EF celebrated at my parish so I wouldn’t have to drive across town and more people would know about the EF.

 

[cathguy]

The “Traditional Latin Mass” or Extraordinary Form, as the Pope himself prefers to call it, is not the “Mass of the Ages”, because there are authorized Eucharistic Liturgies in the Church that are much older.

When the Tridentine Missal was first promulgated by St. Pius V, in Quo primum, he called it a NEW RITE.

Therefore, even a saint taught that the EF is NOT the “Mass of the Ages”.

BTW, did you know that even before V2, the Tridentine Mass was NOT everywhere celebrated in Latin?

Firstly, I posted this thread as a place for people, in a positive and uplifting way, to post why they love traditional liturgy.

Thus, your post is somewhat outside scope. Still, I thank you for making it.

That said, I must point out that you are largely incorrect.

The Tridentine Mass is a Mass that is in continuity withe liturgies that preceded it. It enjoys organic development from the liturgy of the early Church. Several very good studies have been done on this.

Yes, there are liturgies that are older AND they have much more in common with the Tridentine mass than with, say, a protestant service or the way the Ordinary Form is commonly celebrated.

Your statement that the “new Mass,” here referring to the Tridentine Mass, is “not the Mass of the Ages” is impossible to support. There is only ONE Mass, one Eucharistic sacrifice. Place your focus on Jesus truly present in the Eucharist. Jesus is not a fan of division and discord. His presence assures the fact that the Mass is the Mass.

This Mass may be celebrated in slightly different ways in different places and in different times throughout history, but in its core and essence, it is the same.

You are absolutely correct that valid liturgies have been celebrated in the vernacular since the earliest days of the Church. That is fine and good. I am a Latin rite Catholic, and I love Latin. Yet I must admit that the liturgy in the Russian Orthodox Church is both ancient and beautiful and valid.

I am also a huge fan of organic development in the liturgy, and resent top down approaches to reform that have little to do with the way the faithful celebrated the Mass for 2000 years.

 

[cathguy]

I have also heard argument that the EF is not 2000 years old and that the same love that is expressed could be the same for the OF. The problem is how reverent the Mass is said!

It was not my intent to attack anyone. The original post was stated in a positive way. I started this as a way for people to post what they loved about the traditional Mass. What can possibly be controversial about this???

I love the lack of creative thinking that can take place among most of cathguy’s list.

Here we have both sarcasm and veiled ad hominem attack. This is not charitable at all.

However, the Holy Father still expressed concern and did find faults in the EF and so needed reform.

What? Care to provide evidence and support?

Concerning the “so-called Tridentine liturgy”, he writes, there is “no such thing. The Council of Trent did not ‘make’ a liturgy”, he points out. The 1570 Missal is a revised version of the Roman Missal of about 100 years earlier, and differed only in tiny details. Pope Pius V promoted the exclusive use of the Missal to “help get rid of the uncertainties which had arisen in the confusion of liturgical movements in the Reformation period”, Cardinal Ratzinger writes, noting that an exception was made at that time for liturgies that were 200 or more years old, which were permitted to co-exist with the “new” revised Missal.

Absolutely true!!! The 1962 Missal is an example of the Mass as celebrated throughout the Roman Church in 1962, and it is the product of organic development over 2000 years. There is nothing controversial here.

“We must say to the ‘Tridentines’ that the Church’s liturgy is alive, like the Church herself, and is always involved in a process of maturing.… The Missal can no more be mummified than the Church herself”, he writes.

TRUE!!! Organic development must be allowed to occur. It is not frozen in time in 1962.

However, the reforms of the second Vatican Council amount to a massive top heavy change that in no way be described as the sort of small and steady organic reforms the Mass underwent in the 1950 years before the council. Benedict has admitted this, and is trying to fix the problem, arguing for a celebration of the new Mass in CONTINUITY with the larger Catholic tradition.

He deplores that after Vatican II the “new Missal was published as if it were a book put together by professors, not a phase of a continual growth process. Such a thing has never happened before. It is absolutely contrary to the laws of liturgical growth”.10 While this is disturbing, Cardinal Ratzinger nevertheless strongly affirms that “as far as its contents are concerned (apart from a few criticisms) I am very grateful for the new Missal”, noting especially that it contains more prayers, and permits the vernacular.

Absolutely! Also remember the Pope is the Pope and must deal with the realities in the Church today. I would read “The Spirit of the Liturgy” to get at the purity of his thought.

But he also remarked that the “old liturgy” was flawed. In particular, he notes that “the celebration of the old liturgy had slipped too much into the domain of the individual and the private, and that the communion between priests and faithful was insufficient” – that people privately recited prayers from their prayer books during most of the Mass. He suggests that these factors probably accounted for the indifference of most Catholics when the old liturgical books disappeared: “People had never been in contact with the liturgy itself”.

adoremus.org/0906BenedictXVI.html

I doubt this is anything other than politics and a nod to the establishment for the sake of unity. Still, even if that is not the case, his is arguably correct here.

When one goes to a Mass with Traditionalist Catholics today, one does not find the sort of disconnect and lack of involvement that was so widespread before the Council. The Council, and its reforms, made evident decay that was present BEFORE the Council. They just exacerbated the decline.

The decline however is very real, and the fruits of the reform have been manifestly negative. The problems Benedict points to here are with Catholics, and how they were assisting at Mass. The problems are not with the liturgy itself, which Benedict both loves and promotes.

I want to add here that this thread was started with the intention of traditionalist Catholics sharing what they love about the traditional Mass. It was not started with the intent of bringing people out of the woodwork to attack the Traditional Mass or Traditional Catholics. Please remember that this is the Traditional Catholic forum.

Peace!

 

[Dempsey1919]

Ad Orientem - This reminds me that we are worshipping God and that the Priest at the Altar, acting in the person of Christ, is praying for us. The Priest facing the Tabernacle reminds me that the Priest is conversing with God. This position reminds us that the Mass is not a community meal but a Sacrifice.

Prayers At the Foot of The Altar - These prayers help us to prepare ourselves to meet the Most Holy Trinity. They help me to remember that I am a miserable sinner in need of Divine Mercy. These prayers help us all to humble ourselves before the Lord. The prayers at the Foot of the Altar also remind us that the Sanctuary is a sacred space that is comparable to the Holy of Holies in the Temple of Jerusalem. This is the place where the Lord dwells. When we realise this, we become more aware of our sins and our need for mercy.

The Confiteor - The traditional Confiteor is longer and is said twice, once by the priest and once by the server. The traditional version of this prayer more clearly expresses our sinfulness, our need for mercy, and the community of saints; in the traditional confiteor, the intercession of the saints is more frequently sought. It is also a humbling experience to pray the confiteor while kneeling. I can never understand why the confiteor is said while standing in the OF.

The Credo - I like the fact that the faithful kneel at the words “Et incarnatus est de Spíritu Sancto ex María Vírgine et HOMO FACTUS EST…” This is an act of worship reminding us that the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity became man to save us from our sins. It is very reverent. The faithful are supposed to bow at this point in the OF but this is rarely done.

The Offertory Prayers - The older offertory prayers express Catholic doctrine beautifully. The sacrificial nature of the Mass is clearly stated. The prayers of the EF are beautifully ancient and express Catholic doctrine brilliantly.

Kneeling at the Agnus Dei - I think the posture of kneeling is more reverent and is more appropriate; we are kneeling before the Most Holy Eucharist while humbly seeking mercy and forgiveness. We know we are sinners and we know that we are not worthy to receive the Eucharist. However, we are confident in the mercy of God.

The recital of “Domine Non Sum Dignus” three times - This is one of the best parts of the EF. By praying this prayer three times, we can really meditate on the fact that we are not worthy to receive the Lord. We can humble ourselves before His Divine Majesty on the Altar. Also, we can say this prayer to each of the Three Persons of the Most Holy Trinity.

I could write far more but I think I would end up going through the whole Ordinary part by part. I love the EF Mass and I think it is truly beautiful. I also love the OF Mass but I think the EF Mass offers far more reverent worship. It is just my opinion, but I think the EF Mass is superior in terms of spirituality, prayers, and in expressing Catholic doctrine.

 

[Dempsey1919]

How could I forget:

The Kyrie - I love the fact that this prayer is said in the original Greek. This reminds us that many of the prayers of the Roman Rite have their origins in the Christian East. It is also a constant reminder that the Mass is ancient; I feel that this clearly shows that we are praying in union with the Church Triumphant, with all of the Saints who went before us in the life of the faith. Also, the Kyrie is far longer in the EF:

Kyrie Eleison
Kyrie Eleison
Kyrie Eleison
Christe Eleison
Christe Eleison
Christe Eleison
Kyrie Eleison
Kyrie Eleison
Kyrie Eleison

Each of the Three Divine Persons is addressed in this prayer. The first three address the Father, the second three address the Son, and the final three address the Holy Spirit. We ask each Person of the Most Holy Trinity for mercy three times. I think this reminds us of the splendour of the Thrice Holy God.

 

[cathguy]

Ad Orientem - This reminds me that we are worshipping God and that the Priest at the Altar, acting in the person of Christ, is praying for us. The Priest facing the Tabernacle reminds me that the Priest is conversing with God. This position reminds us that the Mass is not a community meal but a Sacrifice.

Prayers At the Foot of The Altar - These prayers help us to prepare ourselves to meet the Most Holy Trinity. They help me to remember that I am a miserable sinner in need of Divine Mercy. These prayers help us all to humble ourselves before the Lord. The prayers at the Foot of the Altar also remind us that the Sanctuary is a sacred space that is comparable to the Holy of Holies in the Temple of Jerusalem. This is the place where the Lord dwells. When we realise this, we become more aware of our sins and our need for mercy.

The Confiteor - The traditional Confiteor is longer and is said twice, once by the priest and once by the server. The traditional version of this prayer more clearly expresses our sinfulness, our need for mercy, and the community of saints; in the traditional confiteor, the intercession of the saints is more frequently sought. It is also a humbling experience to pray the confiteor while kneeling. I can never understand why the confiteor is said while standing in the OF.

The Credo - I like the fact that the faithful kneel at the words “Et incarnatus est de Spíritu Sancto ex María Vírgine et HOMO FACTUS EST…” This is an act of worship reminding us that the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity became man to save us from our sins. It is very reverent. The faithful are supposed to bow at this point in the OF but this is rarely done.

The Offertory Prayers - The older offertory prayers express Catholic doctrine beautifully. The sacrificial nature of the Mass is clearly stated. The prayers of the EF are beautifully ancient and express Catholic doctrine brilliantly.

Kneeling at the Agnus Dei - I think the posture of kneeling is more reverent and is more appropriate; we are kneeling before the Most Holy Eucharist while humbly seeking mercy and forgiveness. We know we are sinners and we know that we are not worthy to receive the Eucharist. However, we are confident in the mercy of God.

The recital of “Domine Non Sum Dignus” three times - This is one of the best parts of the EF. By praying this prayer three times, we can really meditate on the fact that we are not worthy to receive the Lord. We can humble ourselves before His Divine Majesty on the Altar. Also, we can say this prayer to each of the Three Persons of the Most Holy Trinity.

I could write far more but I think I would end up going through the whole Ordinary part by part. I love the EF Mass and I think it is truly beautiful. I also love the OF Mass but I think the EF Mass offers far more reverent worship. It is just my opinion, but I think the EF Mass is superior in terms of spirituality, prayers, and in expressing Catholic doctrine.

Beautiful! I agree totally! I love the Kyrie too.

 

[pro_multis]

Surprised that no one has mentioned the Last Gospel–some of the most sublime language in the entire Bible. I have no idea why on earth that it was ripped out of the New Mass. It bookends the prayers at the foot of the altar very nicely too. And it is great when everyone kneels at the words Et Verbum Caro Factum Est.

Every catholic deserves to hear this at the end of mass.

 

[Dempsey1919]

Surprised that no one has mentioned the Last Gospel–some of the most sublime language in the entire Bible. I have no idea why on earth that it was ripped out of the New Mass. It bookends the prayers at the foot of the altar very nicely too. And it is great when everyone kneels at the words Et Verbum Caro Factum Est.

The Last Gospel is another reason I love the EF Mass. I think it is an important reminder on the Redemptive work of Christ. The last Gospel, taken from the first chapter of the Gospel of St. John reminds us that the Most Holy Lord became man to redeem us from our sins.

However, properly speaking, the Last Gospel is not a part of the Mass because it comes after the “Ite Missa Est” and Blessing. The Last Gospel began as a devotional addition to the Mass that was eventually formalised. It is a good example of the organic development of the Mass; it was a devotional element that was practiced by local churches, and finally became part of the Mass for the entire Roman rite.

 

[Onegin]

I love many of the reasons that Cathguy listed, but the number one reason for me is the prayers. It took me a while to appreciate them as I had to familiarize myself with the Mass itself first, but after a while, when I had the time to read through the prayers, I was struck by how beautiful they are.

The prayer taken from Psalm 25 said at the Lavabo in particular is one that struck me as exceptionally beautiful:

*"I will wash my hands among the innocent, and I will encompass Thine Altar, O Lord. That I may hear the voice of praise, and tell of all Thy wondrous works. I have loved, O Lord, the beauty of Thy house, and the place where Thy glory dwelleth. Take not away my soul, O God, with the wicked, nor my life with men of blood. In whose hands are iniquities, their right hand is filled with gifts.

But as for me, I have walked in my innocence; redeem me, and have mercy on me. My foot hath stood in the right way; in the churches I will bless Thee, O Lord."*

 

[CradleCath]

Ad Orientem - This reminds me that we are worshipping God and that the Priest at the Altar, acting in the person of Christ, is praying for us. The Priest facing the Tabernacle reminds me that the Priest is conversing with God. This position reminds us that the Mass is not a community meal but a Sacrifice.

Prayers At the Foot of The Altar - These prayers help us to prepare ourselves to meet the Most Holy Trinity. They help me to remember that I am a miserable sinner in need of Divine Mercy. **These prayers help us all to humble ourselves before the Lord. The prayers at the Foot of the Altar also remind us that the Sanctuary is a sacred space **that is comparable to the Holy of Holies in the Temple of Jerusalem. This is the place where the Lord dwells. When we realise this, we become more aware of our sins and our need for mercy.

The Confiteor - The traditional Confiteor is longer and is said twice, once by the priest and once by the server. The traditional version of this prayer more clearly expresses our sinfulness, our need for mercy, and the community of saints; in the traditional confiteor, the intercession of the saints is more frequently sought. It is also a humbling experience to pray the confiteor while kneeling. I can never understand why the confiteor is said while standing in the OF.
The Credo - I like the fact that the faithful kneel at the words “Et incarnatus est de Spíritu Sancto ex María Vírgine et HOMO FACTUS EST…” This is an act of worship reminding us that the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity became man to save us from our sins. It is very reverent. The faithful are supposed to bow at this point in the OF but this is rarely done.

The Offertory Prayers - The older offertory prayers express Catholic doctrine beautifully. The sacrificial nature of the Mass is clearly stated. The prayers of the EF are beautifully ancient and express Catholic doctrine brilliantly.

Kneeling at the Agnus Dei - I think the posture of kneeling is more reverent and is more appropriate; we are kneeling before the Most Holy Eucharist while humbly seeking mercy and forgiveness. We know we are sinners and we know that we are not worthy to receive the Eucharist. However, we are confident in the mercy of God.

****The recital of “Domine Non Sum Dignus” three times ****- This is one of the best parts of the EF. By praying this prayer three times, we can really meditate on the fact that we are not worthy to receive the Lord. We can humble ourselves before His Divine Majesty on the Altar. Also, we can say this prayer to each of the Three Persons of the Most Holy Trinity.

I could write far more but I think I would end up going through the whole Ordinary part by part. I love the EF Mass and I think it is truly beautiful. I also love the OF Mass but I think the EF Mass offers far more reverent worship. It is just my opinion, but I think the EF Mass is superior in terms of spirituality, prayers, and in expressing Catholic doctrine.

WOW!! Your message is a wonderful tribute to a beautiful Mass. I hope you don’t mind if I add a few things that I love:

I love the SILENCE at the E.F. Mass. It enables me to meditate on the Sacrifice enfolding in front of me in a deeper way.

**I also love the fact that the ad orientum position assures me that the priest is praying for me & with me, not at me. This position also lessens the possibility of turning the Mass into a performance.
**
The Roman Canon is one of my favorite prayers said at the E.F. While it was turned into Eucharistic Prayer no.1 during the council, it was seldom used in my diocese.

The “recall” of the TLM. has brought with it a sense of the sacred. The Sanctuary, once again, feels like a holy place. The only members of the laity within in are the altar boys. I pray that once again, the sacred duty of assisting the priest in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, will lead to more vocations to the priesthood. In my own experience, the more that my 2 brothers served Mass, the more they understood about the Mass, the faith & the priesthood.

The E.F. reminds me that the Mass is a SACRIFICE, not a Communal Meal, during which we celebrate ourselves & our neighbors.

**The Leonine prayers after Mass. **They send me home with renewed faith in God, St. Michael & my Church,.

Like you, I could list many more characteristics of the Mass of the Ages that appeal to me…but this will do for now.

PS. I, once again, hope that we traditional Catholics will be allowed to post here, in this forum, in peace.

 

[fish90]

It was not my intent to attack anyone. The original post was stated in a positive way. I started this as a way for people to post what they loved about the traditional Mass. What can possibly be controversial about this???

Here we have both sarcasm and veiled ad hominem attack. This is not charitable at all.

What? Care to provide evidence and support?

Absolutely true!!! The 1962 Missal is an example of the Mass as celebrated throughout the Roman Church in 1962, and it is the product of organic development over 2000 years. There is nothing controversial here.

TRUE!!! Organic development must be allowed to occur. It is not frozen in time in 1962.

However, the reforms of the second Vatican Council amount to a massive top heavy change that in no way be described as the sort of small and steady organic reforms the Mass underwent in the 1950 years before the council. Benedict has admitted this, and is trying to fix the problem, arguing for a celebration of the new Mass in CONTINUITY with the larger Catholic tradition.

Absolutely! Also remember the Pope is the Pope and must deal with the realities in the Church today. I would read “The Spirit of the Liturgy” to get at the purity of his thought.

I doubt this is anything other than politics and a nod to the establishment for the sake of unity. Still, even if that is not the case, his is arguably correct here.

When one goes to a Mass with Traditionalist Catholics today, one does not find the sort of disconnect and lack of involvement that was so widespread before the Council. The Council, and its reforms, made evident decay that was present BEFORE the Council. They just exacerbated the decline.

The decline however is very real, and the fruits of the reform have been manifestly negative. The problems Benedict points to here are with Catholics, and how they were assisting at Mass. The problems are not with the liturgy itself, which Benedict both loves and promotes.

I want to add here that this thread was started with the intention of traditionalist Catholics sharing what they love about the traditional Mass. It was not started with the intent of bringing people out of the woodwork to attack the Traditional Mass or Traditional Catholics. Please remember that this is the Traditional Catholic forum.

Peace!

Please understand that I was not posting in order to cause harm or to be cool. In my understanding, the topic of the OF and the EF can become uncharitable and I wanted to express my concern for those who think the EF is the best form of the Mass and wished to provide evidence that it was not perfect based upon the opinion of Pope Benedict. I presented views of the Holy Father from a website that I cited and this caused much harm. I apologize for having offended anyone.

I believe I did not express my thoughts correctly when I typed: “I love the lack of creative thinking that can take place among most of cathguy’s list.” I meant no ad hominem (I do not even know you ) nor sarcasm. My intent was to agree with most of what you wrote.

For the record, I find that the liturgy as it is expressed today did not follow the Council Father’s intentions for the Mass. I believe that one of the great things that needs to happen for the Church to rise above the problems of the world is to return to what the Council Father’s intended. After this, the Church would be like it used to be only 40 years ago. I find this means taking what was good of the missal of 1962, yet allowing reform not an overhaul, because that is what the Council Father’s intended. The reformed of the Mass should have been continual NOT A BREAK!

Finally, I find the EF to be a great Mass. Here’s why:

1.) Sense of the Sacred
2.) Order
3.) Ad orientum
4.) Latin
5.) The priest administers Holy Communion.
6.) Focus on God not on community
7.) Lack of creativity

I do find that the reform of the reform of the liturgy will bring the Mass to the continuity it requires in order to be worthy of worshiping God.

Lastly, what was so wrong with this? youtube.com/watch?v=R6AOvStZS64