Reasons you love the Extraordinary Form

[MIKE46]

It’s not mythology. BURNING through Sunday Mass was very common in the EF back when it was celebrated in substantial numbers. Not once have I attended an OF Mass that was burned through in that manner. Not once.

A senior priest does a nice job of explaining this at adoremus.org/0704ReadersForum.html

Daily Mass in most Ordinary Masses I have been to last between 15 and 20 minutes, including Holy Communion. Sunday Mass averages 45 minutes to an hour depending on the length of the homily. Seems like a fairly quick policy is the norm these days as well.

As an aside, I too was raised in the pre-conciliar Church and I don’t recall the “whiz” Masses or the “burning” through of Masses as has been so often said to be the case. Of course, I have noticed that many of the posters who make these claims were not alive at the time or if they were alive seem to be on the liberal side of things as far as religion is concerned. And as has been said by several other posters on this forum, I too was an altar boy and I think that I would remember such things.

That is if they actually existed inthe numbers that you guys seem to want everyone to believe that they did.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Daily Mass in most Ordinary Masses I have been to last between 15 and 20 minutes, including Holy Communion. Sunday Mass averages 45 minutes to an hour depending on the length of the homily. Seems like a fairly quick policy is the norm these days as well.

As an aside, I too was raised in the pre-conciliar Church and I don’t recall the “whiz” Masses or the “burning” through of Masses as has been so often said to be the case. Of course, I have noticed that many of the posters who make these claims were not alive at the time or if they were alive seem to be on the liberal side of things as far as religion is concerned. And as has been said by several other posters on this forum, I too was an altar boy and I think that I would remember such things.

That is if they actually existed inthe numbers that you guys seem to want everyone to believe that they did.

Yeah, what did we know? Someone perpetuates the myth and we can say everything we can otherwise to absolutely no avail…Of course, I never saw those liturgical dancers waltzing down the main aisle of my cathedral wafting bowls of incense (or can’t provide graphic examples from one of my nemesis on this forums from his own parish’s website of the same) or the pole people with their beribboned poles. Nope. Never saw those as a cathedral chorister. I was podnahs with Timothy Leary and I was clearly strung out and NEVER saw what I saw with my own two eyes.

 

[brotherhrolf]

\ Originally Posted by ProVobis View Post
Exactly. But how do you Easterners (you, Aramis, ByzCath et al) know what’s it’s like to lose your customs and traditions?\

BTW, ByzCath may talk about his background if he wishes, but for your information heis a member of a religious order of the Roman Church, as can be told from his signature.

Yes, Bishop. Some of us are more than familiar with Brother David and respect him and, actually, you. Neither of you grew up in the Latin Church before Vatican II. Ne cest pas?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Yes, Bishop. Some of us are more than familiar with Brother David and respect him and, actually, you. Neither of you grew up in the Latin Church before Vatican II. Ne cest pas?

And that fits for a large number of Catholics. I was not even born before Vatican II.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Howdy there, Brother David! I pray that you have a good Great Lent. We will don sack cloth and ashes next Wednesday but Tuesday is Mardi Gras - not that I have any intention of participating in that insanity as I haven’t since the 70s.

I do respect you and Bishop Basil but as an anthropologist neither you nor the good bishop grew up in the Latin church before Vatican II. I would not presume to critique Eastern Catholic or Eastern Orthodox practices. My contemporaries are reporting legitimate observations as do I. We have the “been there, done that” award since we actually know what the Latin church was like before Vatican II. Our voices should not be silenced.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Howdy there, Brother David! I pray that you have a good Great Lent. We will don sack cloth and ashes next Wednesday but Tuesday is Mardi Gras - not that I have any intention of participating in that insanity as I haven’t since the 70s.

I do respect you and Bishop Basil but as an anthropologist neither you nor the good bishop grew up in the Latin church before Vatican II. I would not presume to critique Eastern Catholic or Eastern Orthodox practices. My contemporaries are reporting legitimate observations as do I. We have the “been there, done that” award since we actually know what the Latin church was like before Vatican II. Our voices should not be silenced.

I have been relatively quiet on this thread. I only ask if the term “Mass of all the Ages” was used by the Church to describe the Extraordinary Form, of which I got an answer.

I do not know how ProVobis felt the need to bring my name up in this conversation but we are all Catholics and as Catholics I do not think we need to have grown up in any certain time period to have opinions and take part of a discussion.

I have attended the EF and did not find it to my liking but I can see what draws people to it. I also believe that some devotions were lost over the time but I believe that is more due to secularization of society than it is the Vatican II Council.

I do find the continued use of NO as offensive especially when the Holy Father and explicitly stated the the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms are two forms of the same rite.

 

[CradleCath]

Daily Mass in most Ordinary Masses I have been to last between 15 and 20 minutes, including Holy Communion. Sunday Mass averages 45 minutes to an hour depending on the length of the homily. Seems like a fairly quick policy is the norm these days as well.

As an aside, I too was raised in the pre-conciliar Church and I don’t recall the “whiz” Masses or the “burning” through of Masses as has been so often said to be the case. Of course, I have noticed that many of the posters who make these claims were not alive at the time or if they were alive seem to be on the liberal side of things as far as religion is concerned. And as has been said by several other posters on this forum, I too was an altar boy and I think that I would remember such things.

That is if they actually existed inthe numbers that you guys seem to want everyone to believe that they did.

As far as I can tell the people who had never attended a TLM., have only TWO criticisms of the pre Vat. II Church, that they must have heard from others who were present at these Masses:

1. The Masses were too short.
2. Old ladies said they’re rosaries instead of praying the Mass.

When that’s all one has, one uses it a LOT!!! :sad_yes:

 

[bpbasilphx]

\ I would not presume to critique Eastern Catholic or Eastern Orthodox practices. \

**Please tell me what I have said that’s critical of Western liturgical practices in either OF or EF.

Be specific.

If you look at my posts, the object of my critiques has been an ATTITUDE some people have towards the EF–or even wanting to claim special victim status in some cases–and NOT Western liturgy itself.

Though apparently, this is a difference too subtle for some people to grasp.**

\2. Old ladies said they’re rosaries instead of praying the Mass.\

**This is not a criticism of the EF, but rather of a bad habit of some people DURING the EF (again, not the same thing). However, this can be understood, especially in the light of one-time widespread illiteracy or lack of hand missals (old customs in church die hard), even if not excused.

Eastern liturgical spirituality teaches we should attend (with a translation, if necessary) and join in audibly (as customary) to the liturgical prayers actually being said, rather than use the sacred rites as an audible background to personal prayers and meditations.**

 

[brotherhrolf]

Brother, I have already answered that. Ihave absolutely no idea where the term “Mass of the Ages” came from.

I do believe as a “particpant” (an anthropological term) that I and my contemporaries do indeed have the “been there, done that” award and that we do have a certain right to comment because we grew up with it. I am not going to back down on this. This is not an ecclesiological term but an anthropological term and I have my pith helmet firmly in place.

Neither you nor Bishop Basil were there. We were. Can’t avoid that absolute concrete fact.

Pith helmet firmly in place…I was in my late 20s and in graduate school when I was asked to be a lector in the marriage of a fellow graduate student who was Ruthenian. I did not know that you guys existed. Eastern Catholics had no NO presence in Latin Rite south Louisiana. You and the good Bishop assume that we all know all about you. Guess what? We don’t.

I have never, ever, maintained that Vatican II was responsible for what has happened in the Latin church. Anyone (including myself) who has read what the documents said knows this. Way too much was done in the “Spirit of Vatican II”.

I grew up with the TLM. I was an altar boy up till 1968 . I have 13 years of Latin Catholic education behind me - the majority of which was before Vatican II. The Holy Father has authorized use of the EF but my bishop who merely published an “acknowlegedment” of the the Motu Proprio and who followed the Motu Proprio with a scathing editiorial from the diocesan chancellor in the diocesan newspaper has made it abundantly clear that the EF is not welcome.

I grew up with a Missa Cantata. I sang in my cathedral choir for 20 years - the first nine years of which we were forbidden from singing in Latin. I think I have more than earned the “been there; done that” award and I get really tired of hearing from Eastern Catholics and Eastern Christians who resent what I grew up with. You don’t like the EF. Fine. I am not asking you to change your rite anymore than I would expect you to demand that I change my rite.

I am entitled to use the term Novus Ordo because I remember. I remember that First Sunday of Advent in 1969 that we were supposed to transfer to the NO even though we had already done so a year before. Brother, I graduated from a Catholic boys high school in May of 1969. Your liturgical correctness robs me of my memories.

 

[cathguy]

\I agree that the Mass of the Ages refers to all approved liturgies. I have said this several times. You are objecting to… what exactly?\

So you do admit the Ordinary Form is the Mass of Ages, too?

Then in the title of your thread you are calling “Mass of Ages”…what exactly?

BTW, everthing you said about the Extraordinary Form in your primal post can (or should) be applied to the Ordinary Form–even down to incense you mentioned later.

How many times do I have to say it Bishop? The OF is the Mass of the Ages. There is ONLY ONE MASS.

Did I stutter as I typed the same statement, over and over and over again:shrug:

Look, I don’t know how to request moderators get involved, but I am requesting it here.

Bishop, let me be clear (again). I just wanted to start a positive thread where people could post what they liked about the traditional Mass. Many many people refer to the old Mass as the “The Mass of the Ages.” Nothing was meant by this. Nothing derogatory, nothing demeaning. I have clarified this over and over, and no one cares to listen.

Could a moderator PLEASE get involved here? I just wanted to start a nice thread where people could tell what they liked about the Traditional Mass. That is IT.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

How many times do I have to say it Bishop? The OF is the Mass of the Ages. There is ONLY ONE MASS.

Did I stutter as I typed the same statement, over and over and over again:shrug:

Look, I don’t know how to request moderators get involved, but I am requesting it here.

Bishop, let me be clear (again). I just wanted to start a positive thread where people could post what they liked about the traditional Mass. Many many people refer to the old Mass as the “The Mass of the Ages.” Nothing was meant by this. Nothing derogatory, nothing demeaning. I have clarified this over and over, and no one cares to listen.

Could a moderator PLEASE get involved here? I just wanted to start a nice thread where people could tell what they liked about the Traditional Mass. That is IT.

I hate to say it but this seems to be a very volatile subject and unfortunately it always devolves into why one does not like the OF rather than sticking to why one likes the EF. And then you get others with agendas, on both sides.

IMHO it is best to stay away from it and I think it would serve us all best if this thread where closed.

 

[cathguy]

I hate to say it but this seems to be a very volatile subject and unfortunately it always devolves into why one does not like the OF rather than sticking to why one likes the EF. And then you get others with agendas, on both sides.

IMHO it is best to stay away from it and I think it would serve us all best if this thread where closed.

So,

On the traditional Catholic forum one cannot have a thread about why people love the traditional Mass?

Doesn’t this strike you as just bizarre?

 

[brotherhrolf]

So,

On the traditional Catholic forum one cannot have a thread about why people love the traditional Mass?

Doesn’t this strike you as just bizarre?

I have to agree. I have prayed for 45 years that we would regain our senses.

 

[malphono]

So,

On the traditional Catholic forum one cannot have a thread about why people love the traditional Mass?

Doesn’t this strike you as just bizarre?

The turn that this thread has taken is a bit bizarre, but I, for one, cannot fault anyone. The problem lies in the title of the thread. The expression “Mass of the Ages” is a hot button for many, and while the only form of the Roman Rite I attend is the EF, even I find that term out of place. It’s one of those expressions that I’ve heard over and over for the past 40+ years, and I never did get, nor did (or do) I agree with it.

Just my :twocents:

 

[cathguy]

The turn that this thread has taken is a bit bizarre, but I, for one, cannot fault anyone. The problem lies in the title of the thread. The expression “Mass of the Ages” is a hot button for many, and while the only form of the Roman Rite I attend is the EF, even I find that term out of place. It’s one of those expressions that I’ve heard over and over for the past 40+ years, and I never did get, nor did (or do) I agree with it.

Just my :twocents:

And your two cents would be valuable. But I have said again and again that nothing was meant by the use of this term. Shouldn’t decent and reasonable people take me at my word? Or is Christian charity a passe thing?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

How many times do I have to say it Bishop? The OF is the Mass of the Ages. There is ONLY ONE MASS.

Did I stutter as I typed the same statement, over and over and over again:shrug:

Look, I don’t know how to request moderators get involved, but I am requesting it here.

Bishop, let me be clear (again). I just wanted to start a positive thread where people could post what they liked about the traditional Mass. Many many people refer to the old Mass as the “The Mass of the Ages.” Nothing was meant by this. Nothing derogatory, nothing demeaning. I have clarified this over and over, and no one cares to listen.

Could a moderator PLEASE get involved here? I just wanted to start a nice thread where people could tell what they liked about the Traditional Mass. That is IT.

It seems that there is a disconnect here and it appears to be happening with you.

You titled this thread “Reasons you love the Mass of Ages” and you only want reasons one loves the EF.

You say;

So,

On the traditional Catholic forum one cannot have a thread about why people love the traditional Mass?

Doesn’t this strike you as just bizarre?

Yes you say Mass of the Ages and you admit that Mass of the Ages applies equally to all valid Eucharistic Sacrifices.

And your two cents would be valuable. But I have said again and again that nothing was meant by the use of this term. Shouldn’t decent and reasonable people take me at my word? Or is Christian charity a passe thing?

We should take you at your word but it does seem a bit contradictory. I am sure you did not mean it this way but that is the way it is coming across.

 

[cathguy]

It seems that there is a disconnect here and it appears to be happening with you.

You titled this thread “Reasons you love the Mass of Ages” and you only want reasons one loves the EF.

You say;

Yes you say Mass of the Ages and you admit that Mass of the Ages applies equally to all valid Eucharistic Sacrifices.

We should take you at your word but it does seem a bit contradictory. I am sure you did not mean it this way but that is the way it is coming across.

It is clear that this forum is not the place for Catholics with traditional leanings.

Good bye.

 

[CradleCath]

Daily Mass in most Ordinary Masses I have been to last between 15 and 20 minutes, including Holy Communion. Sunday Mass averages 45 minutes to an hour depending on the length of the homily. Seems like a fairly quick policy is the norm these days as well.

As an aside, I too was raised in the pre-conciliar Church and I don’t recall the “whiz” Masses or the “burning” through of Masses as has been so often said to be the case. Of course, I have noticed that many of the posters who make these claims were not alive at the time or if they were alive seem to be on the liberal side of things as far as religion is concerned. And as has been said by several other posters on this forum, I too was an altar boy and I think that I would remember such things.

That is if they actually existed inthe numbers that you guys seem to want everyone to believe that they did.

Since many on these forums cannot remember this Mass, I’ll offer an observation. I attended the daily children’s Mass during the 1940’s. All Catholic school children did. A short reminder…we fasted for 12 hours prior to the Mass, no snacks, no breakfast, no NOTHING but water from 8 pm. until after we received the Eucharist. This may not sound hard, but children in elementary school are usually active & hungry.
We arrived to congregate at school at approximately 7:30. By 7:45 we were processing into the Church, by 8AM, we were kneeling in the “children’s pews” & Mass began.
It was over **at exactly 8:45 **& we were back in our classrooms by 9AM, receiving a small carton of milk & something else…baked by the nuns who prepared our hot lunch. These times are correct & exact, as they had to be in order for us to have the needed hours of class. And those nuns were logistical EXPERTS.

The 45 min. low Mass wasn’t long, it’s just that we were HUNGRY.
For the 10AM. Mass on Sunday…well I was STARVED by the time is was over. It was the Mass my parents attended, before Vat. II, & it lasted close to an hour & a half. I was a small, skinny kid & didn’t need to miss a meal. But, I knew even then how very fortunate I was to start every day with God.

We met at the school building & marched into Mass together,

 

[ProVobis]

The expression “Mass of the Ages” is a hot button for many

Actually I didn’t want to compound this hot button before, but it’s more referred to as the “Mass of ALL Ages.” I googled this and got over 2.7 million hits so it’s not really a new term. Seems as if the term “Mass of the Ages” is much more benign so I would say the opening poster didn’t have the malicious intent he’s been accused of, IMO.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It is clear that this forum is not the place for Catholics with traditional leanings.

Good bye.

That is not true and now you are just being stubborn and leaving because I pointed out the apparent contradictions in what you have said and why someone might not take you at your word, I did state that I did not think this was so and that you just did not realize the contradictions in your statements.

But you can take you ball and go home if you wish. I am sorry that you are unhappy.