rebuilding trust with fiance

[smithyk]

Similar to other post about rebuilding trust in marriage, but this time for engaged couples.?

I’ve dated my fiance for 2.5 years and been engaged for 5 months.God willing we’re getting married next summer.Through out our relationship the truth has been revealed to a lot of his lies.Usually I get upset for a day or two but try to trust he won’t deceive me again. When is enough, enough?How do you rebuild trust in relationships?

Two months after we started dating in 2010 I found out my fiance was still in contact with his ex girlfriend of 6 months on and off long distance. Total I think they spent a month together but always kept in touch via skype and e-mail. I was extremely upset. He told me his ex did not want to see him because she had a new boyfriend and at one point in time my fiance and his ex were very close, so her new boyfriend wouldn’t approve of them hanging out.I let it slide because we just started dating and weren’t serious but still felt heart broken.After dating for 2 months, you would think he’d moved on and been interested in me more.He told me he felt bad for the way he treated his ex (premarital sex and using her) and wanted to see how she was but he had no interest in getting back together with her as a year had gone by since he last saw her.

Over time I randomly asked if he still had photos of her and if he still had her blocked on facebook.He said he still had photos on his laptop, hard drive, even had picture collages of her, and said she was no longer blocked but he never looked at the photos or thought of her. I thought that was a little suspicious.As far as I know the photos are deleted.

Christmas 2011 my fiance gave me a pearl necklace and earrings.A few months previously I read a message he sent to his friend as we were editing photos together.In the message to his friend he mentioned he bought pearls off e-bay for his ex girlfriend. When he gave me the pearls I asked if he originally bought them for me and he lied and said yes.I just ignored it. But I brought it up in conversation this week and told him I had seen the message he sent to his friend about the pearls because he asked why I never wore them. He admitted to lying and apologized.I was more so hurt he lied to me but it also hurt knowing he didn’t originally buy the necklace for me.

Recently I also stumbled across an online forum we belong to.I joined for no reason really and only logged onto my account once a couple years ago. It is a rather risque forum, often talking about women in bathing suits, rating women’s faces 1-10, men talking about how many women they’d slept with. It is a really crude forum.I looked at my fiance’s past posting and for the last 2 years he had been looking at risque photos of women and talking about them as if they were meat. This isn’t the guy I thought I was marrying.The last time he posted on the forum was 6 months ago though. He also posted about his ex girlfriend and his forum friend made a comment about how hot his ex was.I saw he also posted a few rude things about my father, some personal information about me like my name, posted a photo of me to show to his “forum friends”. When I saw this it hurt so much because I trusted him with everything. I felt so stupid, naive, and disrespected when I read his past posting in this forum, only a few days ago.

I had never asked to much about his past before until recently. After looking at his forum postings I had to ask questions. A couple years ago he told me he’d never told anyone he loved them before or spoke with anyone else about marriage except me.Well when I asked him a few days ago, he admitted to apparently telling his ex he loved her and they spoke about marriage before too. I’m mostly hurt he lied, but It makes me wonder if I was just a rebound he ended up falling for because his ex already moved onto someone else. It hurts to know he actually loved someone before me and slept with people in the past. I’m still a virgin.

After I confronted my fiance a couple days ago about the pearl necklace lie, forum postings I found, and how upset I was he didn’t tell me the truth about his previous relationships, he apologized. He said he wasn’t happy with the way he used to be and wants to change. Recently he’s been going to daily mass and monthly confession. With a past of telling lies and deceiving me sometimes, I’m finding it very hard to trust him again. I do care for him but we aren’t married yet. He’s very patient and we’ve spoken about the miscommunication and lies over and over again. He said he lied about the past because he didn’'t feel comfortable talking about it and he has promised to try to never lie again. I’m not trying to make him out to be a bad person in this forum, because he’s not. We’re all sinners. I just don’t know how to overcome past lies and hurting knowing he’s slept with other women.

 

[Richard320]

It isn’t too late to call it off until you get through the readings and homily at the nuptial Mass.

I hope your Diocese requires Engaged Encounter. If it doesn’t, you should go anyway. And as early as possible. Stop and think: you’re going to be stuck with this man for the next 50 or 60 years! You can take a little extra time to be sure. NOW is the time to have massive fights, not after it’s too late to call it off.

 

[Chevaleresse]

Okay, guys who have sex before marriage should automatically get a red flag. He formed a bond with someone else (sex, etc) and you’re witnessing the fact that it still exists. The website he belongs to is another indication of his lack of respect for women. The fact that he lies about those things is yet another indicator.

There are Catholic guys that don’t do the things that your fiancé has done/still does. They have the strength to wait until marriage. They also tell the truth.

I sense a disaster of a marriage based on the few things you’ve told us here.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

Hmmm…In my experience, women tend to forgive and forget…never dredging up the past and flinging it back or re-living past hurts.



Sounds like a little growing up is in order here. Wait to get married until 100% mutual honesty is achieved. You’ll know when you are on the road to this goal.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Get out now. He has repeatedly lied and treated you with less respect than I give my cat. Leave NOW. The problem isn’t so much that he was in contact with his ex, a lot of people stay in casual contact with their exes, it’s his downright sociopathic behavior when it comes to honesty, manipulation, and his online behavior.

Should you insist for whatever reason that you should still marry him (and frankly, I don’t see a good one) you need to lay down some conditions. One, there will be complete transparency for as long as it takes for him to regain your trust, and he doesn’t get to complain about it or make you feel guilty for not trusting him and being nosy. This means that you see every site he goes to and have access to all of his emails, texts, and social networking sites. He goes to counseling with a licensed therapist. You go to couples counseling together, both secular and religious, just to make sure every single base is covered and you get the most experience possible. And you postpone the wedding to give yourself some time to think and evaluate the situation and him. No rushed decisions.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

Should you insist for whatever reason that you should still marry him (and frankly, I don’t see a good one) you need to lay down some conditions. One, there will be complete transparency for as long as it takes for him to regain your trust, and he doesn’t get to complain about it or make you feel guilty for not trusting him and being nosy. This means that you see every site he goes to and have access to all of his emails, texts, and social networking sites. He goes to counseling with a licensed therapist. You go to couples counseling together, both secular and religious, just to make sure every single base is covered and you get the most experience possible.

This is actually a great recipe for marriage failure. What man could be a good husband if:

1. she had to act like this
2. he agrees to be treated like this

It’s the classic ‘mommy-little boy’ scenario.

I do like your previous advice to ‘Get out now’ a lot better…saves some time in the long run.

 

[JoeofCupertino]

Just think, do you want him to post details on a public message board of what you guys did the the bedroom? If you marry him, this is what will likely happen. You have to spend your whole life with him when you get married. There are no bailouts. Do you want him to be talking to other women that hes had sex with before and lying about it for the rest of your life? It may be hard to think about life without him and finding someone else but at some point you need to look out for yourself and act in your own best interests.

 

[EasterJoy]

Has he* ever* come clean on his own, when you didn’t catch him first? Not in any of the cases you’re citing, that’s for sure. Promises are cheap, and his amendment has so far shown no signs of being anything but a firm purpose to not get caught next time.

Take this advice from Martha Stout, in her book, The Sociopath Next Door:

*When considering a new relationship of any kind, practice the Rule of Threes regarding the claims and promises a person makes, and the responsibilities he or she has.

Make the Rule of Threes your personal policy. One lie, one broken promise, or a single neglected responsibility may be a misunderstanding instead. Two may involve a serious mistake. But three lies says you’re dealing with a liar, and deceit is the linchpin of conscienceless behavior. Cut your losses and get out as soon as you can. Leaving, though it may be hard, will be easier now than later, and less costly.

Do not give your money, your work, your secrets, or your affection to a three-timer. Your valuable gifts will be wasted.*

Even if he had not lied, by the way he posted behind your back you know not only that he is capable of being very rude in order to get attention for himself (from total strangers, no less), but that he doesn’t respect you or your father. If he respected you, he would have made his cheap points by putting someone else down. If he had character, he wouldn’t be out making cheap points with strangers by putting anyone down.

By all means, pray for his amendment. Then when he finds another woman and doesn’t ever lie to her, when he comes clean from the beginning that he’s done things in the past that he is not proud of, she’ll know she has someone who has developed some character.

If he does not change, the woman whose heart he breaks won’t be yours. It will be the heart of someone who wouldn’t believe what her common sense was telling her…or maybe, God willing, no one will ever fall for him until he cleans up his act.

We can only hope. In the meantime, break up now and break up totally. Give back every gift he’s ever given you. Do not negotiate, do not apologize, and do not feel a need to explain, except to say that you’ve come to realize that his history of lying to your face and showing disrespect behind your back is totally unacceptable, and that there is no chance you will ever want to date him again, let alone marry him. Do not accept future contact or plays for contact, and do not look back. Ever. Instead, if he pleads that he will change, wish him better luck and wiser choices with his next girlfriend than he made with you, and a happy life with her.

 

[Rainaldo]

Dump him. Now would be a good time.

 

[Regina_Love]

NEVER marry some one who needs to change to deserve you! you are a truely honorable woman deserving of a real man. Don’t waste your time with this man/boy. Love is not enough. If he has let you down so miserably now, during the period of time when most people try their hardest to please their fiance, imagine how bad it will get after he’s married you, and stops trying! Imagine you have a son or daughter together. His actions will teach them how to live. Do you want your son to act like him? You probably have not uncovered the worst of his behaviors. ** Find a man who is the person you want your son to become!**

I feel for you… Be courageous now. The man you thought you were marrying is just a fantasy. He does not exist in the man you are engaged to. If you are courageous, and strong enough to be honest with your self, then you will be free from this harmful relationship. It is worth walking through the grief of his loss, to have a better future. A true man will encourage, and deepen your faith in God. He will bring out the best in you!

Also, I would keep the pearls. As a symbol of the huge mistake you avoided, and a reminder that you are the pearl of great price!

 

[onceablasphemer]

The general consensus of the thread is to dump him, and you do have valid reason. However it does seem like he is making an honest attempt to change his life for the better. I am 26 and unfortunately many young men I know act as he does. I think you need to postpone your marriage for a little while and see how things go. Tell him that if he lies one more time that is it, and hold him to it. Couples counseling is not just for married people.

 

[ValPal]

If I were in that situation, I would’ve been gone a long time ago. I personally have no time for “friends” who are liars; I certainly wouldn’t marry one. If the fiance has repeatedly lied over the course of the relationship, I see no reason not to expect this person to continue to lie during the marriage.

 

[ValPal]

Okay, guys who have sex before marriage should automatically get a red flag. He formed a bond with someone else (sex, etc) and you’re witnessing the fact that it still exists. The website he belongs to is another indication of his lack of respect for women. The fact that he lies about those things is yet another indicator.

IMHO, the past is in the past as long as the person is truthful about it, is faithful to the person that he/she is engaged to. The red flag is when a person is repeatedly and currently lying to the person that is their fiance.

 

[Lucky7]

This is actually a great recipe for marriage failure. What man could be a good husband if:

1. she had to act like this
2. he agrees to be treated like this

It’s the classic ‘mommy-little boy’ scenario.

I do like your previous advice to ‘Get out now’ a lot better…saves some time in the long run.

I agree with this. I would hate to go into a marriage knowing I HAD to do this full transparency stuff. It’s one thing when you marry someone truthful and then something happens in the marrriage later on (and you need to figure things out…which is what I am working on). But there is just so much wrong with this man’s behavior prior to marriage. I really question whether you will ever be able to fully trust this man. I know it’s hard, but I really think you need to cancel this wedding, literally physically separate from him and give yourself time to heal.

 

[Lucky7]

Just think, do you want him to post details on a public message board of what you guys did the the bedroom? If you marry him, this is what will likely happen. You have to spend your whole life with him when you get married. There are no bailouts. Do you want him to be talking to other women that hes had sex with before and lying about it for the rest of your life? It may be hard to think about life without him and finding someone else but at some point you need to look out for yourself and act in your own best interests.

Not to mention I’m still wondering how long his relationship with his ex will continue after he marries. I see no proof that that is over.

God forgive me, but he really is making me angry and I want to slap him upside the head for the OP.

 

[joanofarc2008]

I think at the very least you need to look at postponing this wedding if not cancelling it. Forgiveness does not mean allowing the other person to hurt you again.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Recently I also stumbled across an online forum we belong to.I joined for no reason really and only logged onto my account once a couple years ago. It is a rather risque forum, often talking about women in bathing suits, rating women’s faces 1-10, men talking about how many women they’d slept with. It is a really crude forum.I looked at my fiance’s past posting and for the last 2 years he had been looking at risque photos of women and talking about them as if they were meat. This isn’t the guy I thought I was marrying.The last time he posted on the forum was 6 months ago though. He also posted about his ex girlfriend and his forum friend made a comment about how hot his ex was.I saw he also posted a few rude things about my father, some personal information about me like my name, posted a photo of me to show to his “forum friends”. When I saw this it hurt so much because I trusted him with everything. I felt so stupid, naive, and disrespected when I read his past posting in this forum, only a few days ago.

The bolded part is disrespectful. He posted rude things about your DAD and you’re just hurt? I’d be incensed! How dare he do that!!

Yuck. This is nasty. If it were me, I’d just end it now. He’s crossed the border many times, why would you want to make this man your husband??

 

[1ke]

Similar to other post about rebuilding trust in marriage, but this time for engaged couples.?

No it is not similar. The purpose of dating and engagement is discerning whether or not to marry this person. If they prove untrustworthy during the dating period, that is your cue that they are not marriage material.

Please do not approach dating and engagement with endless forgiveness, excuse-making, and attempts to “fix” the other. Approach dating with the glaring single high-watt lightbulb of the interrogator. (that is only patially a joke). Seriously, you need to guard your heart while dating and need that high-watt lightbulb shining on words and deeds-- both your own and your SO’s.

What are you looking for in a spouse? Integrity, trustworthiness, kindness, virtue, holiness, compatibility, and friendship. When the lightbulb shines on your SO and you see lack of integrity, dishonesty, broken trust, lies, vice rather than virtue, and boundary violations that repeat over 2 years… time to pack up and move on.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

No it is not similar. The purpose of dating and engagement is discerning whether or not to marry this person. If they prove untrustworthy during the dating period, that is your cue that they are not marriage material.

Please do not approach dating and engagement with endless forgiveness, excuse-making, and attempts to “fix” the other. Approach dating with the glaring single high-watt lightbulb of the interrogator. (that is only patially a joke). Seriously, you need to guard your heart while dating and need that high-watt lightbulb shining on words and deeds-- both your own and your SO’s.

What are you looking for in a spouse? Integrity, trustworthiness, kindness, virtue, holiness, compatibility, and friendship. When the lightbulb shines on your SO and you see lack of integrity, dishonesty, broken trust, lies, vice rather than virtue, and boundary violations that repeat over 2 years… time to pack up and move on.

This, cubed.

And, OP, really, 2 years was 1 year and 11 mos. too long.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

This is actually a great recipe for marriage failure. What man could be a good husband if:

1. she had to act like this
2. he agrees to be treated like this

It’s the classic ‘mommy-little boy’ scenario.

I do like your previous advice to ‘Get out now’ a lot better…saves some time in the long run.

I don’t think they should do it either. I think she should run as far away as possible and thank her lucky stars that she found out before the wedding.

But as we all know sometimes love clouds judgment, especially when you’re planning a life with someone. She could very easily know that this is a horrible idea and that she deserves better, but convince herself that he’s a good guy and will change. Should this happen and she doesn’t break it off there need to be the same boundaries in place that there would be if they had been married. And that’s the point of the counseling. One of the things they work on is rebuilding trust so that even if the transparency is available it isn’t needed, demanded, or taken advantage of.

If for whatever reason she doesn’t leave him counseling will be vital.