Rebuttal of the myth that Catholics can fully embrace either political conservatism or liberalism, by a Franciscan University of Steubenville professo

[livingwordunity]

To me, it is shocking and amazing to see that an esteemed professor at Franciscan University of Steubenville (NOT a liberal or wishy-washy Catholic university) is saying clearly and directly proving that Catholics CANNOT embrace or endorse the full agenda and platform of the political Conservative Movement in the USA, and that any Catholic who does fully embrace and endorse the entire agenda and platform of the political Conservative Movement is a DISSENTER, just like all the Catholics dissenters who embrace the political Liberal Movement.

I find this so amazing, so refreshing, so helpful!

To me, this enables one to be and remain a Christian, without getting caught up in the intense and ever-present Propaganda Machines of either the Left or the Right.

Thank you and God bless you Professor Krason!

The leadership of the Democrat Party has a long list of things it** aggressively pushes** that the Church teaches are*** intrinsic evils***. And they are even currently at war with the bishops and are using their influence in the media and in public education to demonize anyone who believes in what the Catholic Church teaches about sexuality and the sacredness of innocent human life. That doesn’t compare to any fault of the Republican Party. At least the Republican Party isn’t at war with the Church. Since the Democrat Party is at war with the Church and at war with traditional Christian values and wants to replace those with Hollywood values, we can’t afford to waste our vote on anyone who doesn’t have a chance against Obama’s huge political machine.

 

[benjammin]

Well stated! That is the problem I see, that many Catholics are being ABSORBED into the political Conservative Movement and in that process reject many teachings of the Holy Catholic Faith that are not approved of by the leaders of the political Conservative Movement.

Yet, unlike Catholics who get absorbed into the political Progressive Movement, these Catholics who call themselves “Conservatives” in the political sense, continue to fiercely assert that they are faithful, loyal Catholics, despite the many points of Catholic Social Doctrine that they FLATLY reject.

They fiercely dispute that they are dissenters. I guess their logic is this: “We Conservatives are at least Pro-Life. We stand against the horrendous abortion holocaust.” Well, true. But a dissenter is still a dissenter. A dissenter is someone who thinks they are no obliged to accept the teachings of the pope and the bishops.

If a Catholic says that labor unions have no right to exist, and that under no circumstances should there ever be a minimum wage set by government, and that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional and so must be repealed and that the federal government cannot and should not ever legislate any such programs, then that Catholic is “off the reservation,” is passing judgment on and rejecting the authority and teaching of the pope and the bishops.

My basis premise is that nothing will get better until we Catholics accept and practice the WHOLE of the Faith of Christ. I think this what the pope and bishops are calling us too.

why do we need labor unions in modern day America? The government has written laws to establish workers rights that the unions fought for 100 years ago and now I think they are needed. Yes Pope Leo XIII wrote in rerum novarum that unions are needed, but this was written in the 1890’s. Couldn’t it be updated? I don’t think the pope was wrong, but he was writing this at a time when workers had no rights and was worried that catholic workers would fall into the trap of socialism and communism. Nowadays though, at least in the Western World, workers are treated fairly well and Unions aren’t really needed. Also, do we as catholics necessarily have to believe the government should provide healthcare. Personally I think we do, but only for the poor, and also make sure it respect life. However, I don’t see a problem if a Catholic doesn’t want the government involved in healthcare at all. I always thought it was an issue that was up to the individual.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

why do we need labor unions in modern day America? **The government has written laws to establish workers rights that the unions fought for 100 years ago **and now I think they are needed. Yes Pope Leo XIII wrote in rerum novarum that unions are needed, but this was written in the 1890’s. Couldn’t it be updated? I don’t think the pope was wrong, but he was writing this at a time when workers had no rights and was worried that catholic workers would fall into the trap of socialism and communism. Nowadays though, at least in the Western World, workers are treated fairly well and Unions aren’t really needed. Also, do we as catholics necessarily have to believe the government should provide healthcare. Personally I think we do, but only for the poor, and also make sure it respect life. However, I don’t see a problem if a Catholic doesn’t want the government involved in healthcare at all. I always thought it was an issue that was up to the individual.

Herein lies the problem. Too much government intervention.

 

[austenbosten]

I had a nice long essay all prepared and it was considered too long…so I’m just going to say this author may mean well. But he is economic illiterate and contradicts himself.

 

[markomalley]

It’s still pretty bad that 32% of American Catholics reject ACC – since it is one of the biggest threats to life on earth, tho it will take decades and centuries for our current harms to play out, so it doesn’t get much traction among the people. But I suspect this is due to the issues raised here. If the conservative party line says ACC is a hoax, then conservative Catholics tend to follow lock-step along with it.

The biggest threat to life on earth is materialism…a belief that this material life we live is the only thing there is…

The consequences of that belief is that we have to create paradise on earth because there is no paradise for us when we leave this earth. A belief that material well-being far outweighs spiritual well-being.

There are those who manifest this belief in having the philosophy of “he who has the most toys, wins.” Then there are others who manifest this belief through the philosophy of “we must make everybody equal (-ly miserable).” And then there are those who manifest this belief through an environmentalist pantheism.

It is truly sad that 68% of Catholics have bought into a philosophy created by a group of pantheists.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The one thing I will say is that at least the conservative movement removes government as an idol in people’s lives and returns us to personal responsibility, which includes the charge from Jesus to take care of widows and orphans. The liberals put government into the place of God and that is why we have the loss of so many of our personal freedoms (given by God) being taken away by men.

But we Catholics should never put political parties above our relationship to God and His Holy Church, that I do agree on. I am a Catholic first and everything else after that.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

What I’ve found in my recent studies is that American Catholics are still somewhat (tho not a whole lot) more into social justice and are more concerned about their fellow humans than non-Catholics. That was the finding of Andrew Greeley in his sociological studies, and also a recent survey showed that 68% of American Catholics accept anthropogenic climate change, while only 62% of non-Catholics do.

It’s still pretty bad that 32% of American Catholics reject ACC – since it is one of the biggest threats to life on earth, tho it will take decades and centuries for our current harms to play out, so it doesn’t get much traction among the people. But I suspect this is due to the issues raised here. If the conservative party line says ACC is a hoax, then conservative Catholics tend to follow lock-step along with it.

It would be great if we had some candidate for whom to vote who truly embodied all Catholic principles (which are all good). ** As it is we have to choose between pro-death and pro-death candidates. It’s not a happy situation**.

Yes, because 50 million dead babies and counting, equals a false climate belief. Man you really are delusional!

 

[stinkcat_14]

I had a nice long essay all prepared and it was considered too long…so I’m just going to say this author may mean well. But he is economic illiterate and contradicts himself.

Can you point out where you think he is economically illiterate?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I’m disgusted with the unopposed lies about conservatism, and with this article.

‘MAL’-distribution of wealth? Yeah. Calling communism by a new name will totally confuse us and make us embrace things which the church itself in theory opposes.

It’s the same old claptrap, wrapped in a new package.

 

[lynnvinc]

The biggest threat to life on earth is materialism…a belief that this material life we live is the only thing there is…

Yes, and that’s precisely what’s behind our headlong leap into a globally warming world, without consideration of the children, the poor around the world, or future generations.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I’m disgusted with the unopposed lies about conservatism, and with this article.

‘MAL’-distribution of wealth? Yeah. Calling communism by a new name will totally confuse us and make us embrace things which the church itself in theory opposes.

It’s the same old claptrap, wrapped in a new package.

Just what is the lie about conservatives that he makes? Also, if someone thinks that wealth is maldistributed, does that mean they are a communist? Are you saying that villagers in Colombia have all the wealth they need, so therefore we as Christians have no further obligation to them?

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

I’m disgusted with the unopposed lies about conservatism, and with this article.

‘MAL’-distribution of wealth? Yeah. Calling communism by a new name…

Wow. That would mean that the Franciscan University of Steubenville, the place where Dr. Scott Hahn is a tenured professor, and the place that supplies many speakers for EWTN, has an actual Communist professor openly teaching Communism on their faculty. Yes, that is possible. But is that really likely?

Would it not be more likely that we Americans have been misled by certain powerful elements of the political Conservative movement into believing that major parts of Catholic Social Doctrine are as evil as Communism? If that is what is happening, which then is the truly evil player in all this? The Catholic Church, or certain teachers of political Conservatism?

Also, has not all this happened before? In Germany, in the period of 1920s-1940s, did not a political conservative movement there convince many German Catholics that they needed to set aside certain parts of Catholic Social Doctrine in order to be good Germans and good party members and good soldiers for the Reich?

To whom do we owe ultimate obedience and submission of mind and will? Church or party?

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

why do we need labor unions in modern day America? The government has written laws to establish workers rights that the unions fought for 100 years ago and now I think they are needed. Yes Pope Leo XIII wrote in rerum novarum that unions are needed, but this was written in the 1890’s. Couldn’t it be updated?

I think you are right.

I think all the true experts in Catholic Social Doctrine agree that it can develop over time, without really contradicting what came before. Pope Benedict XVI, as you know, calls for viewing such development through the perspective of a “hermeneutic of continuity.”

Many conclude that he wrote about this “hermeneutic of continuity” mainly as a way of defending Vatican II Council against Catholics who reject major parts of it on the ground that it contains things that are not traditional.

This “hermeneutic of continuity” view also allows for revision of all the very pro-Capitalism things that Pope John Paul II wrote in his 1991 encyclical Centesimus Annus. Things in the economic realm have changed much in the 21 years since 1991, and continue to change at an ever accelerating pace.

I believe that experts say that the essence of Catholic Social Doctrine on Labor Unions is the doctrine of Solidarity. Catholic Social Doctrine rejects any political ideology that preaches an “every man for himself!” notion, in which those at the top of the Economic Hierarchy look down at those at the bottom of the Economic Hierarchy and say, “Your inability to feed, clothe, educate and pay for doctors for your kids is NOT my problem!” In other words, as the professor at Steubenville said in the article that started this thread, Catholic Social Doctrine condemns and rejects the total laissez faire ideology that so many political Conservatives promote as the panacea for all the problems of the world. This all has its roots in the preaching of Jesus Our Lord. He never preached anything like the laissez faire ideology.

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

I had a nice long essay all prepared and it was considered too long…so I’m just going to say this author may mean well. But he is economic illiterate and contradicts himself.

Is it really likely that this author, Professor Stephen Krason, tenured faculty at the Franciscan University of Steubenville, a licensed attorney, a holder of a Ph.D., is an economic illiterate? Read about Professor Krason here: franciscan.edu/faculty/KrasonS/

Is it really likely that Blessed Pope John XXIII was an economic illiterate, as he was called in essence by William F. Buckely, a lay Catholic and one of the founders of the modern Conservative movement? Read about that here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mater_si,_magistra_no

Is it really likely that Pope Benedict XVI is an economic illiterate, as he was called in essence by George Weigel, a lay Catholic writing in the magazine founded by William F. Buckley? Read about that here: blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100002538/george-weigels-intemperate-attack-on-benedicts-incoherent-encyclical/

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

The one thing I will say is that at least the conservative movement removes government as an idol in people’s lives and returns us to personal responsibility, which includes the charge from Jesus to take care of widows and orphans. The liberals put government into the place of God and that is why we have the loss of so many of our personal freedoms (given by God) being taken away by men.

But we Catholics should never put political parties above our relationship to God and His Holy Church, that I do agree on. I am a Catholic first and everything else after that.

Yes, Government as Savior/Father/Mother is a terrible idol.

But haven’t you notice that ANOTHER IDOL take the place of government in the minds and hearts of many political conservatives?

Surely you have, haven’t you?

Shall I name it? Jesus named it. Shall I quote the verse? It starts out “No one can serve two masters…”

Isn’t there often an ungodly veneration and exaltation of this other IDOL in the political conservative movement that at least the vice of venerating the Government as Savior/Father/Mother? Wouldn’t you agree?

And isn’t is possible that some political conservative leaders so fiercely and vociferously attack the Government as Idol precisely because they worship this OTHER IDOL and are furious about how government won’t let them have total freedom/liberty to indulge their favorite among the Seven Deadly Sins?

Well, I guess I’ve shown how I view Our Catholic Faith and how I apply it to the current social situation in the U.S. I feel that we have two cultural movements, both dedicated to the worship of a false idol (though not the same one), and both of which, at core, hate God (though many leaders of one movement give much lip service to God).

To me, what we have in America, mainly is Sin.com versus Sin.gov

What we all really need is God.catholic

 

[livingwordunity]

Bottom line. The Democrat party is at war with the Catholic Church and the Republican party is not.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

why do we need labor unions in modern day America? The government has written laws to establish workers rights that the unions fought for 100 years ago and now I think they are needed. Yes Pope Leo XIII wrote in rerum novarum that unions are needed, but this was written in the 1890’s. Couldn’t it be updated? I don’t think the pope was wrong, but he was writing this at a time when workers had no rights and was worried that catholic workers would fall into the trap of socialism and communism. Nowadays though, at least in the Western World, workers are treated fairly well and Unions aren’t really needed. Also, do we as catholics necessarily have to believe the government should provide healthcare. Personally I think we do, but only for the poor, and also make sure it respect life. However, I don’t see a problem if a Catholic doesn’t want the government involved in healthcare at all. I always thought it was an issue that was up to the individual.

Our nations Labor laws are often a little on the anemic side. Any group of workers, who wish to organize. Find that the cards are stacked against them.The decline in overall membership should serve to highlight this point. Keeping in mind, Union workers tend to be better paid, and have superior benefits packages.

To answer your question. We need labor unions so workers can ban together and negotiate the conditions, and terms of their employment. Who could not approve of that?

ATB

 

[nordskoven]

UGH! This is a caricature of Conservatism. Conservatives say, “If we’ve done it before, and it worked, let’s keep doing it. If we’ve done it before and it hasn’t worked, let’s not do it again. If we haven’t done it before, let’s not do it because of uninteded consequences. As for government, the (Catholic) law of subsidiarity, government empowered at the lowest, not highest, feasible level, is the rule; with the smallest government possible the ideal.”

Suggesting that Conservatives embrace laissez-faire Capitalism is madness. Conservatives uphold all that has worked in the past, and that includes morality and inalienable rights granted from our Creator, not fickle people whose character is shaped by the love of money. There is no monolithic “Conservative Party” with a closely-defined platform.

There is a liberal [Democratic] Party with a closely-defined platform militantly supporting any and all abortion procedures, including so-called Partial Birth Abortion. To refresh our recently blanked memories, Barak’s employee, Sotomayor, bullied the AMA/American Medical Association into declaring Partial Birth Abortion, a dangerous tissue harvesting technique, as a “therapeutic” abortion technique. Before this, the AMA declared that turning the baby around in the womb needlessly risked perforating the uterus and endangered the life of the mother if her guts fell out. For this coup de verite, Sotomayor was rewarded with a seat on the Supreme Court.

This abortion plank of the liberal [Democratic] Party is both unconstitutional (“right to life…”) as well as anti-Catholic. So where is the angst about the Demo-Catholic Party that will doubtless sweep Barak and Joe into a second term? You know, those Demo-Cath’s like Father Andrew Greeley who said, “It’s a mortal sin to vote Republican.” The demonizing, even the damning as with Fr. Greeley, is part and parcel of the Bureaucratic Authority of Rebels Antagonizing Kids/BARAK propaganda machine that labelled the Tea Party as “terrorists.” Bwahaaahaha! The Moral Majority begs to differ.

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

Bottom line. The Democrat party is at war with the Catholic Church and the Republican party is not.

Holy Bible, St. Paul’s Letter to the Ephesians, 6:12:

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

So where is the angst about the Demo-Catholic Party that will doubtless sweep Barak and Joe into a second term? You know, those Demo-Cath’s like Father Andrew Greeley who said, “It’s a mortal sin to vote Republican.” The demonizing, even the damning as with Fr. Greeley, is part and parcel of the Bureaucratic Authority of Rebels Antagonizing Kids/BARAK propaganda machine that labelled the Tea Party as “terrorists.” Bwahaaahaha! The Moral Majority begs to differ.

To me, this thread is not about talking about which party or which candidate to vote for. Such discussion is, I think, frowned upon by the moderators of these forums.

To me, this thread is about thinking with the Church (“Sentire Cum Ecclesia”), and not letting one’s Final Authority be the leaders of a political movement.

To me, this thread is about being a WHOLE Catholic, accepting all of the Church’s Doctrine, and not just those parts that the leaders of a political movement approve of, or just those parts that the voting public will accept in large enough numbers to win in an election, and not just those parts that we see as personally advantageous to us.

In the end, on any given election day, every Catholic in the U.S. (or in any nation with voting) has a duty to vote, and is limited to voting for candidates who are on the ballot. Most people agree that there is rarely going to be any candidate who is perfect on all the issues, and perfect in terms of his or her personal character as demonstrated through his or her life history so far. So, we pick and vote from among the options presented. Yet, it seems like we are better off as a Church and as a Nation if the Catholics know Catholic Social Doctrine and submit to it entirely and to the Church authorities who teach it and ask us to submit to it.