Rebuttals for Gender Theory

[MPat]

Oh? And why would you say that?

A small and, hopefully, non-representative sample of psychologists, a somewhat larger sample of practitioners of somewhat related fields…

Certainly not enough for a stronger conclusion, but it will do for “seem”.

Naturally, I do not intend to persuade anyone on this point, only to make my perspective a bit clearer.

 

[Lovinglight]

When I get into an argument with someone regarding Gender Theory, they try to distinguish between sex and Gender. They also claim that there is more than two Genders. Any rebuttals for Gender theory as a whole?

Point them back to the original DSM’s regarding transgenderism as a psychiatric disorder. Then show them how it changed by the infiltration of the gay lobby into the APA.

Of course they will claim that the APA also claimed at one point homosexuality was a disorder…then ask them why if its a disordered organization do they look to it as the sole support and validation of their lobbying efforts.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Point them back to the original DSM’s regarding transgenderism as a psychiatric disorder. Then show them how it changed by the infiltration of the gay lobby into the APA.

This is called the genetic fallacy. You cannot prove someone’s claim false by showing it has a fishy history.

 

[AdamP88]

When I get into an argument with someone regarding Gender Theory, they try to distinguish between sex and Gender. They also claim that there is more than two Genders. Any rebuttals for Gender theory as a whole?

I just don’t get into an argument. The whole thing is too ridiculous. I just say that. “C’mon are you seriously trying to tell me that if a man “feels” like a woman, we should actually accept that and refer to him as such?”

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I just don’t get into an argument. The whole thing is too ridiculous. I just say that. “C’mon are you seriously trying to tell me that if a man “feels” like a woman, we should actually accept that and refer to him as such?”

Would you say this to an actual person that describes him or herself as transgender? I hope not.

 

[frobert]

I am glad you have taken that approach. Diagnosis is technical aspect of mental health practice and the DSM is simply a technical manual from the experiences of tens of thousands of mental health professionals. Even the most ardent proponents of the DSM would not deny that there are likely errors and likely some holes in it. The first DSM was published in 1952 and is now in its 5th edition. Along the way hundreds of diagnosis have been added, deleted and edited with the accumulation of knowledge. In other words a diagnosis is not analogous to a religious doctrine which never changes.

In practice, a therapist finding themselves at odds with a particular diagnosis is not an ethical dilemma for the experienced therapist because, even though the diagnosis helps determine treatment, the therapist has a broad range of options in meeting a patient’s needs.

 

[AdamP88]

Yeah. If I knew them. It’s a delusion. A mental illness. If someone told you the voices were telling them to cut themselves and burn the house down would you tell them that’s ok?

I hope not.

 

[frobert]

So no, I do not see much value in degrees in Psychology. Certainly not enough for “arguments from authority” (unless, of course, the proposition was specifically about opinions of psychologists). Even if they were easy to verify.

I can’t say that from time to time I have not had similar thoughts.

 

[frobert]

Point them back to the original DSM’s regarding transgenderism as a psychiatric disorder. Then show them how it changed by the infiltration of the gay lobby into the AP

Dr. Robert Spitzer was the chairman of the APA committee responsible for the the change in how diagnosis were determined going from DSM II to DSM III. However, Dr. Spitzer was not interested in LGBT rights nor was he interested in declassifying homosexuality. Rather he used the homosexuality diagnosis as a vehicle to push through a new way to determine and classify mental health disorders.

Was it Dr. Spitzer’s goal to declassify homosexuality as a mental disorder or did he just use the homosexuality diagnosis as a vehicle to push through a new way to determine and classify mental health disorders? Let’s look at the evidence.

DSM-III And The Revolution In The Classification Of Mental Illness

The debate over homosexuality demonstrated to Spitzer and his colleagues how difficult it would be to entirely remove social and political considerations from any process of defining mental disorders. Nevertheless, it reinforced their desire to move away from the reigning approach to psychiatric classification, “because the debates about homosexuality could have been about most other diagnoses, had there been strong differences of opinions and hungry media,” note Kirk and Kutchins. “The debates had nothing to do with the ability of psychiatrists to identify homosexuals, but everything to do with a conceptual and theoretical problem, namely, whether homosexuality constituted a disorder. In order to address that question, psychiatrists would have to define disorder convincingly” (Kirk & Kutchins, 1992, p. 30). The use of narrow, symptom based definitions could make diagnostic criteria seem more objective and, therefore, avoid political conflicts that exposed the field to widespread ridicule.

In case you missed it:

the debates about homosexuality could have been about most other diagnoses, had there been strong differences of opinions and hungry media,

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Yeah. If I knew them. It’s a delusion. A mental illness. If someone told you the voices were telling them to cut themselves and burn the house down would you tell them that’s ok?

I hope not.

I don’t see that as a Christian approach. Do you immediately call out all other sorts of sinners? Or do you wait until you build a rapport with a person, so that they can hear what you’re saying when you say something critical?

 

[AdamP88]

It’s less of a sin thing and more of a “you are sick and denying reality and need real help” thing. If I had a friend who thought cutting off body parts and pretending to be a woman was going to make them feel better, I would just tell them that straight. I don’t care what anybody says, there is no way that is good for a person. And I believe the suicide rate of post-operative transgender people backs me up.

If it’s Christian to facilitate another person’s harmful delusion then I must have missed the memo on that.

 

[edwest211]

Gender Theory also includes Gender Identity/Gender Expression, which is confusing. In New York City, if you don’t address a person by their preferred pronoun and you operate an apartment or business, there could be legal problems.

"The NYCHRL requires employers and covered entities to use an individual’s preferred name, pronoun and title (e.g., Ms./Mrs.) regardless of the individual’s sex assigned at birth, anatomy, gender, medical history, appearance, or the sex indicated on the individual’s identification.

“Most individuals and many transgender people use female or male pronouns and titles. Some transgender and gender non-conforming people prefer to use pronouns other than he/him/his or she/her/hers, such as they/them/theirs or ze/hir. 10 Many transgender and gender non-conforming people choose to use a different name than the one they were given at birth.”

Full text: Gender Identity/Gender Expression - CCHR

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I think you’re missing the context of transgenderism. There is an entire culture – indeed, including most medical professionals – who affirm the goodness of the decisions that these people are making. If you respond to that large edifice of reasoning and argumentation with an attitude of dismissal and mockery, then a person will certainly consider YOU to be the one who is nuts. You won’t be helping them any.

A more patient approach is needed, one which takes into account the fact that this person may have complicated and non-entirely-insane reasons for holding their (intellectual) viewpoint. None of what I’m saying denies that we are generally dealing with a mental illness, in these cases.

 

[AdamP88]

If the not-insane reasons are “that person feels like a man so they should be allowed in the girls bathroom”, then I don’t buy it.

My problem with this is that to buy into the whole “transgender” thing is a distortion of reality. I get the fact that people may be attracted to people of the same sex. That doesn’t necessarily deny reality. But a man who actually declares themselves to be a woman is simply at odds with reality. I don’t see how going along with that helps anyone.

And I do dismiss the “medical culture” that affirms the decisions of these people because it is ridiculous and it does more damage to people than anything I might say.

 

[AdamP88]

In New York City, if you don’t address a person by their preferred pronoun and you operate an apartment or business, there could be legal problems.

You don’t have to use the pronoun though. You can just keep using their name.

Stan wanted those files on Stan’s desk. Stan really needs the files to be on Stan’s desk by lunchtime or Stan will be really annoyed. You don’t want to cross Stan"

 

[edwest211]

Then what’s the point of the law?

 

[edwest211]

When a prominent celebrity such as Ellen DeGeneres refers to Bruce Jenner as she, then Ellen is distorting reality.

 

[AdamP88]

Yeah it can when everything they base in support of gender theory today comes from the APAs fishy history. It shows its invalidated.

Yes, and let us not forget that the APA are the ones who redefined paedophilia as a “sexual orientation”.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

But a man who actually declares themselves to be a woman is simply at odds with reality. I don’t see how going along with that helps anyone.

I don’t see how saying intrusive things to people you hardly know helps anyone. I would agree with you that different levels of honesty and bluntness would be appropriate to more established friendships or relationships.

 

[AdamP88]

Why should I facilitate someone else’s delusion? If a guy approached you on the street and proceeded to tell you that he was abducted by aliens and they’re coming for you would you not dismiss him as crazy?