Rebuttals for same sex marriage PLEASE!

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theCardinalbird

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As a Canadian Citizen who lives in such a multicultural society, where the views on gay “marriage” are different. I need facts to support why, as a Catholic, the Church cannot accept gay “marriage.” Also why gay marriage is wrong. The only reason (so far) why I think gay marriage is wrong is because it prevents procreation. Also didn’t God make it clear that same sex intercourse is wrong?

Any more reasons?
 
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  1. The state has a vested interest in its continuance and why it licenses marriage.
    Until recently the state supported marriage as between one man and one woman for the sake of children. It defined the roles, obligations and responsibilities of the parents to their children.
  2. Unstable broken families ratchet up the cost of law enforcement and poverty programs.
  3. Homosexual acts are medically costly to the taxpayers.
  4. The reproductive system is designed for procreation.
 
buffalo said:
  1. The state has a vested interest in its continuance and why it licenses marriage.
    Until recently the state supported marriage as between one man and one woman for the sake of children. It defined the roles, obligations and responsibilities of the parents to their children.
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And how does gay marriage interfere with that?
  1. Unstable broken families ratchet up the cost of law enforcement and poverty programs.
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Happens in heterosexual marriages.
  1. Homosexual acts are medically costly to the taxpayers.
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So are heterosexual acts. Oh, and heterosexuals also practice the same acts.
  1. The reproductive system is designed for procreation.
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Sex is more than just the reproductive system.
 
Such a huge topic! I always like to start at the basics.

Here’s where I always start at the root, for us that believe in Creation, that God imbued in us His likeness and image, and made us human. Here’s the thing, God creates creatures and those creatures can create more creatures without regard, with authority, without any recompense … meaning, we can make babies with whoever we want whenever we want. Imagine the most wonderful gift ever possible, the gift of life, and then God gives that very same power to create to the little “slaves” he just made, us!

How amazing is that responsibility? It’s actually quite magnanimous, but most folks just treat it as a means of self-gratification, using others, pleasures of the flesh, using the gift of procreation for everything but procreation (for the most part)

Men and women are ordered towards union, a life-long union, because human babies don’t fly from the nest at 3 weeks to be gone and never seen again, they stick around for about 18-20 years, and then sometimes they come back at 25! That’s a very long commitment to raise offspring.

Men who are attracted to women, if they have sexual relations with a man, it’s still disordered.

Women who are attracted to men, if they have sexual relations with a woman, it’s still disordered.

So, from the catholic point of view, sex is for a man and woman to have unity and opportunity to procreate.

From the secular, non-religious point of view, homosexual physical relations may have unity, but they are disordered because there is no procreative element. There is no point in being together as they cannot make any offspring. Only option is to adopt. The adopted kid is now being brought into an inherently disordered family, poor kid, kid has to be judged and go through the disorder of a same-sex couple and the kid didn’t ask for it, the kid is there to please the same-sex couple so that they can have their desires filled, regardless of who it affects as long as they are happy, what else matters?
 
KatyCatholic said:
From the secular, non-religious point of view, homosexual physical relations may have unity, but they are disordered because there is no procreative element. There is no point in being together as they cannot make any offspring. Only option is to adopt. The adopted kid is now being brought into an inherently disordered family, poor kid, kid has to be judged and go through the disorder of a same-sex couple and the kid didn’t ask for it, the kid is there to please the same-sex couple so that they can have their desires filled, regardless of who it affects as long as they are happy, what else matters?
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That’s just invoking “Natural Law”, which no, really isn’t secular at all. “Disorderly” is fundamentally a religious position, no matter how much you try to wash God out of that particular blanket.
 
Joe1 said:
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niceatheist:
Sex is more than just the reproductive system.
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Really? What else is it for? (Besides pleasure)
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For consenting adults, it’s whatever they want it to be. Do you feel you have the authority to tell adults what to do with their sexual organs, or which organs they treat as sexual?
 
Good post. However, some kids treat the parents who raised them and loved them for 18 years badly. I actually heard the following from a 17 year old to his parents: “When I turn 18, I don’t gotta listen to you anymore!” What? Mom and dad are just written off? I am not talking about bad parents, but this incredibly dysfunctional idea that the people who changed your diapers are getting in the way of your fun once you turn 18.
 
from a purely secular point of view, gay marriage is wrong because it discriminates against all others who were also under the ban of not being allowed to be married because marriage was about protection of any children produced by the man and woman. If you take children out of the equation, which is what you must do in order to see gay marriage as legally no different from heterosexual marriage then you are discriminating against people who want plural marriage or familial marriage. Why can’t I marry my elderly mother and carry her on my health insurance plan like any other spousal privilege? Why can’t two brothers marry? Or a brother and sister? (genetic risk is nullified by legalized abortion).
 
Radical individualism does not fly on a Catholic forum. I mean, nobody needs my permission to do anything. But ‘no rules, just right’? No, not a good idea for various reasons.
 
edwest211 said:
Radical individualism does not fly on a Catholic forum. I mean, nobody needs my permission to do anything. But ‘no rules, just right’? No, not a good idea for various reasons.
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I don’t recall anyone saying “no rules”.
 
@Joe1

The reason it is difficult to defend Christian marriage is because there have already been multiple moral concessions before legalizing marraige for same sex couples ever happened. If people already see marriage as being about adult companionship, you have to break down that view in order to get any understanding of why same sex marriage does not support the common good.

Anyway, if you want a thorough response and are willing to do some reading, this is what I recommend:

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  1. Children have a right to their real mother and father. Children are best served in real families.
2.Indeed, rather than lower the bar we should raise it. Real marriages and get rid of no-fault divorce if there are children. Work it out for their sake.
  1. Again, two wrongs do not make a right.
  2. No, the designed pleasure aspect induces procreation. Homosexual acts are always sterile.
 
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My point is this: On a Catholic forum, things are quite black and white. People change things through purposeful erosion - like normalizing deviant sexual behavior. By marketing it like a product to be mentally bought by average people. People have been doing whatever they want for a long time regarding sex, but here, it needs to be called out as a bad idea.
 
Keep it private then.

If the behavior increases medical costs of which I share will you be willing to be put in a risk pool that covers those increases?
 
niceatheist said:
For consenting adults, it’s whatever they want it to be. Do you feel you have the authority to tell adults what to do with their sexual organs, or which organs they treat as sexual?
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Would you use that response for people who want to engage in polygamy? Incest? After all, if it’s whatever they want it to be then surely you would allow polygamy and incest. After all it’s their sexual organs. Right? They can do whatever they want as long as it’s consenting. Right?

Just using your response here
 
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