Receive Communion standing or kneeling?

[bear06]

Those who kneel are every bit as much a part of the Community as those who stand.

Yeah! I get to disagree with you! You should throw the word presumed in here. I do know some that kneel for Communion who are very much in material schism thus I don’t think they’d qualify as “part of the Community”. Please note I said, material, I don’t have to read their souls.

 

[bear06]

Panis Angelicas:

bear06,

Again I graciously thank you for your use of reason concerning this matter. :bowdown: < - me, kneeling in profound gratitude.

I was raised in a family that calls a spade a spade. I’m sure you’ll be accusing me of being unreasonable at some point! While I’m sure that everyone here thinks they are following Rome in this area, I just don’t think everyone is correct. Has anyone posted this to the AAA Forum? I’ve read some conservative, Catholic, pro-VII writers on this subject and they all seem to think the same way as me. I’d be interested to know what the AAA Forum thinks. I’d be happy to post it but I think that maybe we should all agree on the wording of a question first. Anybody got any writing from conservative, pro-VII writers against kneeling?

 

[Mysty101]

**

You could try loving them

**. You could ask Father about giving them a secure place to kneel. But no, it’s all about SuZ and her distractions and how she regards fellow parishoners as not worthy members of her community.
First of all, for me this is a hypothetical discussion, since no one in my parish kneels, so it is not about me. I offered a suggestion for those who wish to kneel. It will do you no good to complain here—I suggest you go where you may get some help.

Call me crazy, but the Mass is public worship, and the norms are set by the Bishops and have been approved by Rome. I personally think (yes, my opinion) that it is better to accept it. To me "should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm." has a shade different meaning than “allowed”. Why would you need instructions to do something different if it is allowed? I really do feel sorry for anyone who is not happy with the norms, but no, I will not champion their cause. I do not agree. As I said I had to catch my mom , who has very poor vision, when a genuflecter genuflected in front of her. If he would have knelt, I doubt I could have prevented her from falling.

But if I am told they should not be denied Communion, nor be considered disobedient if they kneel, that is fine with me. “not considered disobedient” also has a different shade of meaning than “cooperativel attitude toward the authority of the Bishops.”

SuZ

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Posts #116 and #117 give all the communications from the Vatican regarding this matter, before and after they gave GIRM no. 160 the force of law.

Reading those letters, what is your take on the intent of the Vatican in this matter?

It is obvious: the Vatican wanted those who still wanted to kneel to be protected from imprudent treatment.

Seemingly, either some folks are wiser than the pope, or they place the USCCB’s authority over the Vatican’s.

Bear06, this question has been raised again and again on these forums. I’m sure the AAA has already answered it. I, too, have read very reputable conservatives who encourage the faithful to stand for Holy Communion, and with good reasoning.

Some people still feel compelled to kneel before the Most Blessed Sacrament, however, and it seems obvious that they have the Vatican’s support.

God Bless all…
Peace out!

 

[Mysty101]

Reading those letters, what is your take on the intent of the Vatican in this matter?

It is obvious: the Vatican wanted those who still wanted to kneel to be protected from imprudent treatment.

You asked a question and answered it yourself–I do not agree. This is a very sensitive issue which still needs more work.

My position is that while I certainly do understand and sympathize with both sides, kneeling in the middle of a stanting procession is not a good solution.

SuZ

 

[Mysty101]

PS one lady in our Parish who wishes to genuflect as a sign of reverence always positions herself at the end of the line. Although I do not agree with her deviation from the norm, I do feel that she is being considerate, and this is a reasonable compromise.

 

[Katholikos]

Have any of you ever observed anyone in the Communion queue falling because someone in front of them kneeled to receive? I certainly haven’t!

The Vatican made sure that those who wish to receive Communion on the tongue instead of the hand and those who wish to kneel rather than stand were accommodated when these changes were allowed.

“When I caught sight of him [the Lord], I fell down at his feet as though dead” (Rev 1:17).

All this energy could be better spent defending the Church against her enemies.

JMJ Jay

 

[Marie]

Katholikos:

Have any of you ever observed anyone in the Communion queue falling because someone in front of them kneeled to receive? I certainly haven’t!

JMJ Jay

Actually, I have. I even lived it…It was me! But then I was concentrating on how to not trip the person behind me, as I was going to kneel also. Oh! Well, A prostrate before the Lord works too, even if it wasn’t planned.

I decided God was trying to get my attention. So, I don’t kneel anymore. I stand. Obedience is a powerful thing when correctly applied. As a cradle Catholic born pre-Vat II it was a difficult change at the time. I finally grew up and stopped looking to the little “t” for my spirituality.

My reverence is not less, but more. I follow the Bishops teachings and Trust God knows what I mean. This idea that kneeling is better than standing is not and old idea. It’s about as new as some other little"t’s" which the church can change.

As God has blessed us mightily, I don’t sweat the small stuff anymore. It just add’s to the confusion. I try to stay out of others way, out of respect for them, and most of all allowing Christ’s appointed leaders to LEAD. It’s not a Democracy and never was.

 

[mtr01]

Mysty101:

PS one lady in our Parish who wishes to genuflect as a sign of reverence always positions herself at the end of the line. Although I do not agree with her deviation from the norm, I do feel that she is being considerate, and this is a reasonable compromise.

Forgive me if I missed the answer as this is a large thread, but what is the norm in your parish?

 

[bear06]

Bear06, this question has been raised again and again on these forums. I’m sure the AAA has already answered it.

Actually, I just searched the AAA forum and there is no question answered on this subject. There are 3 questions on kneeling at various other times of the Mass but none for the reception of Communion.

I was just trying to formulate a question and in going back over the posts I can’t figure out what to post. It seems that the some of the original arguments are that it was disobedient. That seems to have gone away. Would this be a good question?

The USCCB, with the approval of Rome, has set the norm for reception of Communion as standing with the stipulation that nobody be denied Communion for doing so and that anybody kneeling be given cathechis from the pastor. The Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments has said that no one can be “imposed upon”, that it is “completely acceptable” to kneel, that nobody can be told that that act is illicit or disobedient to kneel. With the presumption of right intention on the part of the communicant, can it be said that kneeling for Communion is allowed or optional?

 

[Mysty101]

mtr01:

Forgive me if I missed the answer as this is a large thread, but what is the norm in your parish?

Sure is a long thread http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

We follow the US adaptations of the Girm
The GIRM contains an approved adaptation on this point for the United States:

The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm

.
The US norm for the sign of reverence is a bow, but not many of our parishioners follow this. I hope these instructions are also given with the instructions on RS.

suZ

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

bear06:

Yeah! I get to disagree with you!

Gee, you sound almost happy about that…

I do know some that kneel for Communion who are very much in material schism thus I don’t think they’d qualify as “part of the Community”. Please note I said, material, I don’t have to read their souls.

Only those who kneel? You do not know of any who appear to be in material schism who stand to receive? cough John Kerry
But seriously, people who obstinantly persist in sins against the Church’s moral teachings ~ who’ve divorced and remarried civilly without a Church annulment, who are living together without the benefit of the Sacrament of matrimony, who are knowingly breaking from the Church by contracepting or sterilizing or even choosing abortion…?
When we try to select “who” is not a member of “our” Community, we begin down a slippery slope.
I’d leave those determinations to the communicants’ confessors, spiritual advisors, and ordinaries, I think.

Otherwise, when eat His Body, and drink His Blood, we become One Body. Those who kneel are not excluded from this great gift and mystery of our Faith. It’s no sin to kneel. (Maybe for some, vanity comes into play, but then, some folks who stand may fall unto the sin of vanity as well.)

 

[Marines]

When ever I’m at a NO Mass, I received kneeling and on the tongue. So far, all the priests have been fine with that. Does anyone else here do that?

• Joe

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

bear06:

Actually, I just searched the AAA forum and there is no question answered on this subject. There are 3 questions on kneeling at various other times of the Mass but none for the reception of Communion.

Wow. I’m very surprised at that! Thank you for doing the research.

The USCCB, with the approval of Rome, has set the norm for reception of Communion as standing with the stipulation that nobody be denied Communion for doing so and that anybody kneeling be given cathechis from the pastor. The Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments has said that no one can be “imposed upon”, that it is “completely acceptable” to kneel, that nobody can be told that that act is illicit or disobedient to kneel. With the presumption of right intention on the part of the communicant, can it be said that kneeling for Communion is allowed or optional?

This sounds very good, but may I just make a suggestion? The Vatican had said “completely appropriate,” not “acceptable.” If posing this question, I might say (instead of that area that I emboldened) how are we to regard kneeling?
But either way, it’s good to bounce this off the apologists. So thanks for taking the ball and running with it.
Sorry, I hadn’t seen your post earlier!

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Marines:

When ever I’m at a NO Mass, I received kneeling and on the tongue. So far, all the priests have been fine with that. Does anyone else here do that?

• Joe

Yes indeedy, but you’ll find a few around here who are highly intolerant of it. (They’re wiser than the pope. )

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

mtr01:

Forgive me if I missed the answer as this is a large thread, but what is the norm in your parish?

The new revised General Instruction of the Roman Missal, norm 160 regarding reception of Holy Communion in all dioceses of the United States is written just as Mysty stated, except that she added emphasis by underlining the section about pastoral counselling.

In many parishes, a number of communicants kneel and are not called in for pastoral counselling for a variety of reasons.
In some dioceses, the bishop has granted full permission for the entire diocese to kneel rather than stand, if they so desire.

For the complete explanation, you might want to read posts #116 and #117 to more fully understand how this norm came about as it is worded today.

God bless. <><

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

“When I caught sight of him [the Lord]
, I fell down at his feet as though dead” (Rev 1:17).

All this energy could be better spent defending the Church against her enemies.

JMJ Jay

Amen, Jay!
To quote the infamous Sinead O’Connor: “Fight the real enemy!”

 

[bear06]

Hey Panis, it was you who limited your comment to those who kneel. I limited my response to your comment.

I think one of the things that annoys me is that it seems that a lot of people think those who kneel and are in schism are somehow better than those who stand and are in schism. Schism is schism. I don’t have sympathy for schism no matter what the reason. I feel bad for them as far as they’ve cut themselves off for the Church. They are just two sides of the same coin and, this should go without saying, none of them should receive Communion.

The “Novus Ordo” camp seems to rail far more against liberal schismatics than the “Tridentine” camp seems to rail against ultra-Conservative schismatics. The “Tridentine” camp, FOR THE MOST PART, seems to try and make excuses. Unfortunately, I think that really turns people off to just about anything “Tridentine”.

 

[bear06]

Panis Angelicas:

Wow. I’m very surprised at that! Thank you for doing the research.

This sounds very good, but may I just make a suggestion? The Vatican had said “completely appropriate,” not “acceptable.” If posing this question, I might say (instead of that area that I emboldened) how are we to regard kneeling?
But either way, it’s good to bounce this off the apologists. So thanks for taking the ball and running with it.
Sorry, I hadn’t seen your post earlier!

Thanks for the correction!

 

[ellent]

Since I have arthritis, I would say, standing.However I really do think standing is better because it would move things along. However, I guess it would be up to the priest.

From a religious point of view, I would say it does not matter, since Christ did not say either way.

EllenT