Receiving the Eucharist the reverant way....

[Timothysis]

What does everyone think about Pope Benedict insisting that everyone who receives from him at his Masses do so kneeling and on the tongue?

Because he wants a return back to more traditional practices. I agree but even he knows its going to have to be done in baby steps.

 

[Fludgecow101]

All these quotes are interesting and fit in with what I would personally prefer, but do you deny that currently the Church teaches that this is a licit practice where it has given such permission? If you agree that this is the current teaching of the Church, do you believe that you are correct and the Church is in error? Please answer directly, as I am extremely interested in what you say.

Thanks,

Paul

Yes, i beleive that this is the current teaching of the Church but I don’t think it is in error, but rather while still guided by the Holy Spirit it has made to decisions they regret. Pope Paul VI said that the "smoke of " has entered the Church and i’m sure other popes have said simlar things. If you read the articles(and some quotes) i posted, then you will notice how Hand Communion came to be. The limited permission that Pope Paul VI gave was dragged out of him under force and deceitful conditions. If popes and many saints say hand communion is wrong though, then i think i am going to have to agree with them. Pm me if or post again if u need a better answer

 

[kristie_m]

What does everyone think about Pope Benedict insisting that everyone who receives from him at his Masses do so kneeling and on the tongue?

Hmmm…well, as I said, I do certainly have a preference for receiving in the hand. But, I have to say, were I in line to receive our Lord from the hand of the Holy Father…I think I’d suck up my own neurosis and stick out my tongue!

Ultimately, if it is decided that this is going to be the norm from here on out, I will certainly obey, but I think I’m going to be squeamish about it for a while.

 

[grandfather]

Because he wants a return back to more traditional practices. I agree but even he knows its going to have to be done in baby steps.

Maybe! The tradition that virtually went back to antiquity was revolutionized radically with the advent of the new Mass. So the pope asking people to receive kneeling on the tongue is a major event?

 

[grandfather]

All these quotes are interesting and fit in with what I would personally prefer, but do you deny that currently the Church teaches that this is a licit practice where it has given such permission? If you agree that this is the current teaching of the Church, do you believe that you are correct and the Church is in error? Please answer directly, as I am extremely interested in what you say.

Thanks,

Paul

What is the current teaching of the Church on receiving Communion? Communion in the hand occurs as an indult. It is not the norm. It is an indult, right?

 

[Rickwood]

How often does this have to posted? Every hour?

emphasis mine, note in particular “Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion.”

Not once have I heard a demand to stand type acknowledge they received counsel outside of Mass and they now understand the importance of the norm and they now follow the norm and not their egos.

Not once.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Not once have I heard a demand to stand type acknowledge they received counsel outside of Mass and they now understand the importance of the norm and they now follow the norm and not their egos.

Not once.

Why would you think a person who follows the norm would need to be counseled?

Perhaps many who stand, would prefer to kneel, but they understand community worship. It is sacrificing personal preferences and acting in community.

Lux

 

[thistle]

How? Why do you think Pope John Paul II only gave communion on the tongue. His he wrong too to do so? In 1980, he said that he could not be for communion in the hand and also would not recommend it. Also,“To touch the Holy Creations is a privilege of the ordained.“Laymen can only get permission “for true emergency”.
Cardinal Julius Dopfner in 1976 said shortly before his ,“Had I known that through Communion in the hand so much lack of reverance was to be practiced, I would have never spoken for it…Today one goes to Holy communion like one took holy water in the past. For two years i fought for Communion in the hand. Now that I have seen the results, I would never again do it. But now, I know of no way to rescind what has occured. Get rid of Communion in the hand!”
Pope Paul VI warned seriously of the dangers of Communion oin the hand and advised “for the good of the Church itself” that all Bishops, Priests, and Laity once again conform with the again confirmed manner of Holy Communion on the tongue. In 1975, Pope Paul dismissed Archbishop Annibale Bugnini, the very author of Liturgical Refrom.
Saint Pope Pius X, 1914; “In the moment of receiving Holy Communion one must kneel.”
Saint Thomas Aquinas, 1274: He emphasized that the Most Holy could only be touched by consecrated hands, except for “emergencies”.
St Augustine, 430:”…but no one eats this flesh, before he has not adored it. …, we sin of we not adore it”
Saint Catherine of sienna, 1380: She received Holy Communion from Jesus Himself into the mouth.
Jesus said to Saint Bridget of Sweden in 1373, “Look, my daughter, I left behind five gifts to my preists,… and fifth, the privelage to touch My Most holy flesh with their hands.”
Cardinal Franjo Seper, 1981: " The question of Hand Communion is for me not a question of the form, but… a question of faith and therefore truly a decision of conscience for the Preist." “No one, haveing asked his conscience, can thereupon feel the need to request communoin in the Hand.” So please ask yourself, when and why have you ever started with Holy Communion in the hand. Do so honsestly, then ask the answer into prayer. Was it a good reason or was it just because everone else was doing it?Ask or listen to Jesus about this.
Mother Teresa of Calcutta, 1998: The Sisters of Charity allow only communion on the the tongue, and when asked about this, one of her senior Sisters responded:“Mother Teresa has asked for this because she wishes to be obedient to the Pope. Also when asked about, in her opinion, what the worst evil in the crisis of the Church by a group of Bishops is, she answered, surprising them, that it was the"modern form of recieving communinon”.
Mother Angelica, EWTN TV: “Very few children I have met have ever been taught that He is really, truly, present in the Holy Eucharist. …We find Hosts in missalets, we find Hosts under pews under chewing gum… I have seen a 9 year-old pop one like an M&M. I have seen people put it into their sleeves, put it in their pockets, and leave it on the pew.”
Fraternity of Preists of Preists of St.Peter(formed by Pope John Paul II): Their preists distibute “no Hand Communion.”
Saint Katherine Emmerich, 1824(stigmata) Consisdered as the most famous of all German s, Katharina saw Jesus distribute the bread into the mouths of the apostles, as did Therese Neumann in 1962(stigmata)

There are other quotes too i am sure i could find. It seems some of the greatest Church leaders and saints agree with me. Also read the articles i posted before, they’ll defiantly help you understand how important is to receive Jesus on the the tongue while kneeling. hope this helped

Read the GIRM! The Church says the norm for receiving Communion is standing. Therefore contrary to your opinion it is not irreverant.

160.The priest then takes the paten or ciborium and goes to the communicants, who, as a rule, approach in a procession.

The faithful are not permitted to take the consecrated bread or the sacred chalice by themselves and, still less, to hand them from one to another. The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.

When receiving Holy Communion, the communicant bows his or her head before the Sacrament as a gesture of reverence and receives the Body of the Lord from the minister. The consecrated host may be received either on the tongue or in the hand, at the discretion of each communicant. When Holy Communion is received under both kinds, the sign of reverence is also made before receiving the Precious Blood.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I agree.

The title of this thread implies that the US norms are irreverent, rather than it is what the bishops have decided best suits the common spiritual good of the congregation.

There are many people who have difficulty kneeling, plus many priests who may have difficulty bending, or walking back and forth along a rail, if there are many communicants.

Lux

 

[AJV]

Please see point #9 here:
catholic-pages.com/mass/inhand.asp

While point 9 is correct vis the mediaevel story: some of the proofs adduced are not correct. One can reasonably conclude that in the 6-7th centuries, in some parts of the world Communion was receive don the tongue and in other parts, in the hand.

• The canons Trent cannot be quoted because self-communicating is not equal to reception in the hand. Self communicating is still forbidden to the laity.
• Pope Leo’s quotation is ‘neutral’ and can apply equally to reception in the hand or the tongue
• St. Basil has been taken out of context: Letter 93 is actually proof for communion in the hand (outside times of persecution). Likewise, Trullo clearly indicates that communicants are to receive in the hand.
• Even if the Mystagogic Catechesis was the work of the Patriarch John, it makes no difference because (1) the practice recommended is supported by the testimony of other orthodox Fathers (2) he was accused of Origenism which has really no bearing on how Communion is received.

 

[japhy]

it all boils down for me to, “did the Church make an error in teaching when it granted the indult to the US?”

Posture during the liturgy is not a “matter of faith or morals”, although it is related to the faith. Even Pope Paul VI, shortly before the Ordinary Form was promulgated, said: “[T]he rite and the relative rubric are not in themselves a dogmatic definition. Their theological qualification may vary in different degrees according to the liturgical context to which they refer. They are gestures and terms relating to a religious action—experienced and living—of an indescribable mystery of divine presence, not always expressed in a universal way. Only theological criticism can analyze this action and express it in logically satisfying doctrinal formulas.” (source)

 

[MrS]

What is the current teaching of the Church on receiving Communion? Communion in the hand occurs as an indult. It is not the norm. It is an indult, right?

Yes.

Neither position is mandatory in the US.

Similarly, both the EF and OF are up to your choice.

Some posters here may one day be found outside a Church where an EF is being celebrated… they will stop the attendees and “counsel” them on the proper place of the OF in their lives…

.

 

[lizaanne]

I really don’t see the issue here. Why is it so doggone difficult for someone to kneel before God? (And don’t get going on those who can’t physically kneel, I’m not talking about that, and you know it.)

It’s pride, that’s what it is. When we are proud we stand, when we are humble we kneel and bow our heads. Posture and body position IS important and DOES mean things.

There will come a day that every knee shall bend. Why not start now?

~Liza

 

[Brenda_V]

I really don’t see the issue here. Why is it so doggone difficult for someone to kneel before God? (And don’t get going on those who can’t physically kneel, I’m not talking about that, and you know it.)

It’s pride, that’s what it is. When we are proud we stand, when we are humble we kneel and bow our heads. Posture and body position IS important and DOES mean things.

There will come a day that every knee shall bend. Why not start now?

~Liza

Liza - you certainly have an interesting take on this subject. I stand out of obedience to the Church Authority over me. My Bishop tells my Priest that this is what we will do as a community so, I follow along (and now that I can not physically kneel, even with an altar rail I would not be able to now ) it makes my current handicap less noticeable (so, yes some pride there ).

When standing to receive became the norm I was in Turkey or Germany, I don’t remember exactly but I was between the ages of 11 and 14 at the time and was a dependent of a career military man. We as a group of people who were mostly military, either Air Force or NATO forces learned obedience in real life (yes, even dependents of those in the military knew to obey the Commander of the Base!) so it was a natural extension for us to obey the authority of the Church to whom we owe our greatest allegiance for without God there is nothing and it is through the Church that God comes to us, body,blood, soul and divinity.

So, no, pride is not the reason some stand, it is obedience and that is nothing to sneeze at either. Jesus did allow his Church the right to change things, remember “what is bound on earth will be bound in heaven”? This really is in reference to disciplines and not sin because all sin is sin.

And if our Bishops (who are the authority over us) decide for whatever reason that we must kneel and receive on the tongue only again (with the exceptions of people like me ) I would do it because it is what I am told to do (well, I would stand at the altar rail and receive on the tongue until my knee heals completely!) If I had my way, **this is what I would like to see happen too. Until then, the “norm” really is to stand and we have the choice with the indult of hand or tongue.

Until such time as this becomes the “norm” again, I believe we need to do our best to give good Catechesis to the young - I do that with teaching First Grade CCD, trust me, when chidlren are done in my class at the end of the year they know about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit also known as the Trinity and they know that what their Parents and older siblings are receiving is Jesus Christ, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity! A better understanding comes as they get older and I got to see how that happens as I had a student last year in the 6th grade class I taught whom I had taught kindergarden to (yes, I have moved around in the ages I have taught in my 29 years of teaching).

RE: those who kneel to receive or genuflect prior to reception, I don’t see them as trying to make a point of being “more pious” than anyone else, just that they are so called to it that they just can’t help it - it is a hard thing to be obedient sometimes and God gave me knee problems to help me obey in my mid-age years!

Brenda V.

Brenda V.

 

[Rickwood]

Why would you think a person who follows the norm would need to be counseled?

Perhaps many who stand, would prefer to kneel, but they understand community worship. It is sacrificing personal preferences and acting in community.

Lux

They don’t follow the norm in the USA per their own comments - they demand to kneel no matter what.

 

[Rickwood]

I really don’t see the issue here. Why is it so doggone difficult for someone to kneel before God? (And don’t get going on those who can’t physically kneel, I’m not talking about that, and you know it.)

It’s pride, that’s what it is. When we are proud we stand, when we are humble we kneel and bow our heads. Posture and body position IS important and DOES mean things.

There will come a day that every knee shall bend. Why not start now?

~Liza

I think the real difficulty is being obedient to the Church. Some believe they know better than the Church. Talk about pride.

I have seen Latin Rite Catholics kneel during Eastern Divine Liturgies on Sunday even though they have been instructed to stand by the priest. It’s sad to watch. Imagine their reaction if Eastern Catholics stood through an entire Tridentine Mass.

Yes, pride is a toughie.

 

[Rickwood]

Liza - you certainly have an interesting take on this subject. I stand out of obedience to the Church Authority over me. My Bishop tells my Priest that this is what we will do as a community so, I follow along (and now that I can not physically kneel, even with an altar rail I would not be able to now ) it makes my current handicap less noticeable (so, yes some pride there ).

When standing to receive became the norm I was in Turkey or Germany, I don’t remember exactly but I was between the ages of 11 and 14 at the time and was a dependent of a career military man. We as a group of people who were mostly military, either Air Force or NATO forces learned obedience in real life (yes, even dependents of those in the military knew to obey the Commander of the Base!) so it was a natural extension for us to obey the authority of the Church to whom we owe our greatest allegiance for without God there is nothing and it is through the Church that God comes to us, body,blood, soul and divinity.

So, no, pride is not the reason some stand, it is obedience and that is nothing to sneeze at either. Jesus did allow his Church the right to change things, remember “what is bound on earth will be bound in heaven”? This really is in reference to disciplines and not sin because all sin is sin.

And if our Bishops (who are the authority over us) decide for whatever reason that we must kneel and receive on the tongue only again (with the exceptions of people like me ) I would do it because it is what I am told to do (well, I would stand at the altar rail and receive on the tongue until my knee heals completely!) If I had my way, ***this ***is what I would like to see happen too. Until then, the “norm” really is to stand and we have the choice with the indult of hand or tongue.

Until such time as this becomes the “norm” again, I believe we need to do our best to give good Catechesis to the young - I do that with teaching First Grade CCD, trust me, when chidlren are done in my class at the end of the year they know about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit also known as the Trinity and they know that what their Parents and older siblings are receiving is Jesus Christ, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity! A better understanding comes as they get older and I got to see how that happens as I had a student last year in the 6th grade class I taught whom I had taught kindergarden to (yes, I have moved around in the ages I have taught in my 29 years of teaching).

RE: those who kneel to receive or genuflect prior to reception, I don’t see them as trying to make a point of being “more pious” than anyone else, just that they are so called to it that they just can’t help it - it is a hard thing to be obedient sometimes and God gave me knee problems to help me obey in my mid-age years!

Brenda V.

Brenda V.

Thank you for a beautiful posting. It is in stark contrast to the angry one you were responding too. I am of the mind now that some just don’t get it.

 

[EasterJoy]

I really don’t see the issue here. Why is it so doggone difficult for someone to kneel before God? (And don’t get going on those who can’t physically kneel, I’m not talking about that, and you know it.)

It’s pride, that’s what it is. When we are proud we stand, when we are humble we kneel and bow our heads. Posture and body position IS important and DOES mean things.

There will come a day that every knee shall bend. Why not start now?

~Liza

How is it not pride to make oneself out to be superior to the local bishop? Assuming that they are in compliance with those who have authority over them, it is the duty and perogative of our bishops to establish what our norms of conduct shall be during liturgies in their dioceses. It is our duty to comply.

Let our knees bend in humble obedience of heart to those God has ordained to be our shepherds, and not just in the posture of our bodies.

 

[water]

Kneel or not kneel, let’s the Church speaks for its teaching. I have no problem doing either way as long as I am obedient to the Church and however the pastor wants me to do.

The most reverant way to receive Jesus? Nothing is more reverant than having a pure soul when receiving Him.

 

[water]

How is it not pride to make oneself out to be superior to the local bishop? Assuming that they are in compliance with those who have authority over them, it is the duty and perogative of our bishops to establish what our norms of conduct shall be during liturgies in their dioceses. It is our duty to comply.

Let our knees bend in humble obedience of heart to those God has ordained to be our shepherds, and not just in the posture of our bodies.

Thanks!