Reconciliation but not via a Priest?

[Reformed_Rob]

Had an interesting discussion today with someone who claimed a priest told her that there has been a change concerning the “rules” of Reconciliation. Basically that now, a person only has to go to Confession before they are Confirmed, and that after that they can go to “Confession/Reconciliation” to a friend, deacon, or even just praying to God.

This person is a Catholic and has had some bad childhood experiences with the Sacrament of Reconciliation (nothing sexual, just feeling like she was in trouble when she went to Confess as a child as part of the school group), so I’m sensitive regarding her feelings on the topic. But I really think this priest told her wrong.

Or maybe I’m wrong? Maybe the Church has totally changed the teaching on the Sacrament of Reconciliation but it has been kept a secret from the general public?

 

[Rolltide]

Your friend is mistaken. There have been NO changes to the rules on the Sacrament of Reconciliation, except for perhaps the more wide availability of the face-to-face option with the priest. Confessing to a friend, deacon, or directly to God does NOT satisfy the requirements for the Sacrament, although it IS possible, however difficult, to attempt to make an “Act of Perfect Contrition” to God in an emergency (and even that requires going to Confession at the first possible opportunity if one survives the crisis).

 

[NPC]

The Church has most certainly not changed its teaching on the Sacrament of Reconciliation. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1424 It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a “confession” - acknowledgment and praise - of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man.
It is called the sacrament of forgiveness, since by the priest’s sacramental absolution God grants the penitent “pardon and peace.”
It is called the sacrament of Reconciliation, because it imparts to the sinner the live of God who reconciles: “Be reconciled to God.” He who lives by God’s merciful love is ready to respond to the Lord’s call: “Go; first be reconciled to your brother.”

1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance: “All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession, even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievously and are more dangerous than those which are committed openly.”

When Christ’s faithful strive to confess all the sins that they can remember, they undoubtedly place all of them before the divine mercy for pardon. But those who fail to do so and knowingly withhold some, place nothing before the divine goodness for remission through the mediation of the priest, “for if the sick person is too ashamed to show his wound to the doctor, the medicine cannot heal what it does not know.”

VIII. The Minister of This Sacrament

1461 Since Christ entrusted to his apostles the ministry of reconciliation, bishops who are their successors, and priests, the bishops’ collaborators, continue to exercise this ministry. Indeed bishops and priests, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, have the power to forgive all sins “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

1462 Forgiveness of sins brings reconciliation with God, but also with the Church. Since ancient times the bishop, visible head of a particular Church, has thus rightfully been considered to be the one who principally has the power and ministry of reconciliation: he is the moderator of the penitential discipline. Priests, his collaborators, exercise it to the extent that they have received the commission either from their bishop (or religious superior) or the Pope, according to the law of the Church.

The priset is not an optional extra when it comes to the Sacrament of Reconciliation; the Catechism makes this very clear.

 

[puzzleannie]

Had an interesting discussion today with someone who claimed a priest told her that there has been a change concerning the “rules” of Reconciliation. Basically that now, a person only has to go to Confession before they are Confirmed, and that after that they can go to “Confession/Reconciliation” to a friend, deacon, or even just praying to God.

?

your friend has been misinformed, or misunderstood what she was told. Please take steps to make sure she gets proper instruction from a proper priest.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

your friend has been misinformed, or misunderstood what she was told. Please take steps to make sure she gets proper instruction from a proper priest.

Thank you. I was 100% sure she had been misled. At the time I decided the best course of action was to tell her that I disagree with her priest because it was contrary to anything I had ever read or been taught concerning Confession.

There were a couple other things that bothered me, but they stem from the same thing, which is lack of trust or being comfortable with certain Church doctrines.

The Scripture that the priest cited for his view is something along the lines of “Be accountable to no man.” ** Which, to my knowledge, is not an actual verse at all. At least, I couldn’t think of anything exactly like that, and spent some time searching and couldn’t find any such verse. ** Is anyone aware of such a verse?

Thank you, I’ll pray about this and address it soon.

 

[japhy]

… I disagree with her priest because it was contrary to anything I had ever read or been taught concerning Confession. There were a couple other things that bothered me, but they stem from the same thing, which is lack of trust or being comfortable with certain Church doctrines.

This is sort of off-topic, but I would just like to suggest, Reformed Rob, that a lot of people mistrust the Church and disagree with her doctrines because they’ve been misinformed about them!

 

[Reformed_Rob]

No, that’s completely on topic. Thank you Japhy

 

[Aramis]

Certain schismatic groups have done so, but none of the Churches in union with Rome.

 

[quiet52]

Had an interesting discussion today with someone who claimed a priest told her that there has been a change concerning the “rules” of Reconciliation. Basically that now, a person only has to go to Confession before they are Confirmed, and that after that they can go to “Confession/Reconciliation” to a friend, deacon, or even just praying to God.

This person is a Catholic and has had some bad childhood experiences with the Sacrament of Reconciliation (nothing sexual, just feeling like she was in trouble when she went to Confess as a child as part of the school group), so I’m sensitive regarding her feelings on the topic. But I really think this priest told her wrong.

Or maybe I’m wrong? Maybe the Church has totally changed the teaching on the Sacrament of Reconciliation but it has been kept a secret from the general public?

Your friend as a non-Catholic has not validly gone to Reconciliation in the Catholic Church. She needs to be received into the Church or, if she’s already Christian, to be prepared to be received formally before she can go to Confession. Perhaps she talked with an Episcopalian/Anglican priest, and forgets that he wasn’t Catholic.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

Your friend as a non-Catholic has not validly gone to Reconciliation in the Catholic Church. She needs to be received into the Church or, if she’s already Christian, to be prepared to be received formally before she can go to Confession. Perhaps she talked with an Episcopalian/Anglican priest, and forgets that he wasn’t Catholic.

Yeah, she’s Catholic. She’s gone to Confession in the past, been Confirmed, received First Communion, and had a period of time where she was away from the Church, but came back.

She has simply been misled by different people, including this particular “priest” in question. I don’t know anything about the priest, he may or may not have been Catholic.

Her attitude is good, a positive attitude, she is simply misled I believe. But this is a big deal for me, it’s a Sacrament and the Church teaching on it is crystal clear. Like I said, she and I will discuss it.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Someone once stated that he knew of no doctrine or teaching of the Church that he had not heard at least one priest deny. Maybe a slight exaggeration, but close to the truth.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

Well, that did not go well. She is pretty certain that it is only a recommendation that a person go to Reconciliation. She said to look it up, that it varies from diocese to diocese. And that the Catechism isn’t clear on it.

Also, it’s very personal for her, not just doctrinal. All in all, I made her mad. But she is an Aries, and I got to see more of that side of her. Not pleasant!

 

[JPayne]

HA! I believe that the quote from the Catechism that NPC gave is clear enough. If something is essential to a task, then it cannot be completed with out it. And confession to a priest was listed as “essential” to the reconciliation process.
She obviously hasn’t read the Catechism herself on the issue or she wouldn’t have told you to look it up with it contradicting her statement.

God bless,
Jesse

 

[melekali]

Had an interesting discussion today with someone who claimed a priest told her that there has been a change concerning the “rules” of Reconciliation. Basically that now, a person only has to go to Confession before they are Confirmed, and that after that they can go to “Confession/Reconciliation” to a friend, deacon, or even just praying to God.

This person is a Catholic and has had some bad childhood experiences with the Sacrament of Reconciliation (nothing sexual, just feeling like she was in trouble when she went to Confess as a child as part of the school group), so I’m sensitive regarding her feelings on the topic. But I really think this priest told her wrong.

Or maybe I’m wrong? Maybe the Church has totally changed the teaching on the Sacrament of Reconciliation but it has been kept a secret from the general public?

It’s amazing what some people will repeat. It does not sound like a priest would say that, but I suppose that is possible that a priest created this fiction. Consider Luther, Calvin, etc.

 

[melekali]

Well, that did not go well. She is pretty certain that it is only a recommendation that a person go to Reconciliation. She said to look it up, that it varies from diocese to diocese. And that the Catechism isn’t clear on it.

Also, it’s very personal for her, not just doctrinal. All in all, I made her mad. But she is an Aries, and I got to see more of that side of her. Not pleasant!

Angry or not, she doesn’t know her catechism. That’s pretty basic stuff.

 

[Aramis]

Had an interesting discussion today with someone who claimed a priest told her that there has been a change concerning the “rules” of Reconciliation. Basically that now, a person only has to go to Confession before they are Confirmed, and that after that they can go to “Confession/Reconciliation” to a friend, deacon, or even just praying to God.

I just did some research yesterday.

Several groups have optional individual confession, but general absolution as their norm. None of these groups are Catholic, tho many claim to be.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

I just did some research yesterday.

Several groups have optional individual confession, but general absolution as their norm. None of these groups are Catholic, tho many claim to be.

Thank you for sharing. Yeah, I don’t know what influences she has had in her past.

 

[Aramis]

Thank you for sharing. Yeah, I don’t know what influences she has had in her past.

She may have walked into an “Old Catholic” parish. They (when they don’t have women priests, deacons, nor bishops) look VERY Catholic. Only when one starts looking at the theology and doctrine does one notice the differences.

And there are a lot of different Old Catholic Jurisdictions in the US, and no shortage of parishes.

Plus the Polish Mariavite Church and the Liberal Catholic Church both have explicitly gone to general absolution.

Even the Armenian Apostolic Orthodox have adopted a general absolution model (much to the chagrin of one of their bishops, who laments the loss of individual confession).

And then there is the wide ranging vagante “Independent Catholic” movement… lots of basement/garage “cathedrals” with a bishop, a few priests, a tenuous apostolic sucession (usually from Bp. Villatte), and handful of “Faithful”… a movement growing in fits and starts since the 1st Vatican Council stirred a hornet’s nest with the proclimations of the papal universal ordinary jurisdiction and infallibility.

 

[paperwight]

Well, that did not go well. She is pretty certain that it is only a recommendation that a person go to Reconciliation. She said to look it up, that it varies from diocese to diocese. And that the Catechism isn’t clear on it.

Also, it’s very personal for her, not just doctrinal. All in all, I made her mad. But she is an Aries, and I got to see more of that side of her. Not pleasant!

Well, hang on, she’s right in that we are only bound to confess mortal sins in the confessional, surely? It’s not necessary to confess venial sins.

 

[Aramis]

Well, hang on, she’s right in that we are only bound to confess mortal sins in the confessional, surely? It’s not necessary to confess venial sins.

Looking in canon law, which is much clearer…

On use of individual confession
Can. 960 Individual and integral confession and absolution constitute the only ordinary means by which a member of the faithful conscious of grave sin is reconciled with God and the Church. Only physical or moral impossibility excuses from confession of this type; in such a case reconciliation can be obtained by other means.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3F.HTM

On what is to be confessed:

Can. 988
§1. A member of the Christian faithful is obliged to confess in kind and number all grave sins committed after baptism and not yet remitted directly through the keys of the Church nor acknowledged in individual confession, of which the person has knowledge after diligent examination of conscience.

§2. It is recommended to the Christian faithful that they also confess venial sins.

Can. 989 After having reached the age of discretion, each member of the faithful is ob-liged to confess faithfully his or her grave sins at least once a year.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3H.HTM