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Benadam
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Most of the time it takes real life relationships and our pro-life stance in our involvement in situations that change minds.
A close friend of mine and his sister relate this story. She had an abortion a couple of years before this happened. He was asked by this sister for a ride to her boyfriends house since her car was in the shop and her boyfriend didn’t want anything to do with her at the time. She said the boyfriends mother asked her over. He found that odd. Anyway, he told his sister that he would come get her when she wanted a ride back if she didn’t have a ride. On the ride home she told her brother that she was thinking about getting an abortion. He had never been an activist or anything or even knew how strongly he felt about it but when he heard his sister say this he told her “don’t do this” Why can’t you keep it? Her boyfriend would leave her , she couldn’t take care of herself how could she take care of a baby she told him. " I’ll take care of the baby" He said. He didn’t remember this detail but his sister did. She said when he was asking her not to kill the baby he called the baby " my nephew". She said her brother’s plea and the way he thought of her ‘pregnancy’ as a child already related to him swayed her. She said it would have been her second and it was going to be alot harder to do it again. That she thinks she told her brother because she wanted talked out of it. This all is said now not then and not for a few years afterwards. She had the child and a few years afterwards couldn’t believe she could have killed him. She said that her brother’s willingness to take the child or relieve her of the financial burden and the way he spoke as if a child was already here kept her from submitting to the pressure put on her from the child’s father. She is against abortion for any reason because she knows that when she was with her brother on that ride home her son was already her brother’s nephew.
A close friend of mine and his sister relate this story. She had an abortion a couple of years before this happened. He was asked by this sister for a ride to her boyfriends house since her car was in the shop and her boyfriend didn’t want anything to do with her at the time. She said the boyfriends mother asked her over. He found that odd. Anyway, he told his sister that he would come get her when she wanted a ride back if she didn’t have a ride. On the ride home she told her brother that she was thinking about getting an abortion. He had never been an activist or anything or even knew how strongly he felt about it but when he heard his sister say this he told her “don’t do this” Why can’t you keep it? Her boyfriend would leave her , she couldn’t take care of herself how could she take care of a baby she told him. " I’ll take care of the baby" He said. He didn’t remember this detail but his sister did. She said when he was asking her not to kill the baby he called the baby " my nephew". She said her brother’s plea and the way he thought of her ‘pregnancy’ as a child already related to him swayed her. She said it would have been her second and it was going to be alot harder to do it again. That she thinks she told her brother because she wanted talked out of it. This all is said now not then and not for a few years afterwards. She had the child and a few years afterwards couldn’t believe she could have killed him. She said that her brother’s willingness to take the child or relieve her of the financial burden and the way he spoke as if a child was already here kept her from submitting to the pressure put on her from the child’s father. She is against abortion for any reason because she knows that when she was with her brother on that ride home her son was already her brother’s nephew.
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ryecroft
Guest
I most heartily believe that you can be pro choice and Catholic and I know of quite a few priests who would agree with me. My main argument is fairly personal but I’ve put it on here before. I’ve even been told by my Priest that he agrees with me.
There are two instances where I believe that abortion can be necessary - one has occured personally with me - and that is that I would have died had the doctor not stopped the pregnancy due to blood loss. I’ve been told by some that this wasn’t really an abortion - had the pregnancy been further along they might have been able to save the child. Had the pregnancy continued without helping me to cease bleeding then both myself and the fetus/child would have died. Some on here believe that this obviously would have been what God wanted and I believe they are entitled to their opinion - others that have gone a little overboard with trying to get me to “realize” this and I have wound up blocking them. Personally, I have a problem with the idea that it would be better to have two die than one live. Some prolife speak about being fair to the fetus/child but what about being fair to the mother and the rest of her family? They say “choose life” but had the doctor not stopped the bleeding there wouldn’t have been either life left - we did choose life - in this case my life and I’m greatful my doctor had enough sense to tell us when nothing else could be done. I’m glad to be alive. I love God and believe in Him and there seem to be quite a few on here who seem to think that had the doctor only waited a few more minutes that God might have preformed a miracle and I would have been able to keep the pregnancy going - None of us wanted me to wind up dying on the chance that God might do a miracle and suddenly keep me from bleeding out. No good comes from two dying when one can live.
The second situation where I believe a woman should be allowed to determine whether to keep the pregnancy or not is when there is rape or incest. Many pro lifers say that it’s not fair to the child -but I say, it’s not fair to the mother to have to carry around a constant reminder of what happened to her. If she feels she can handle it then that’s her decision too.
I don’t want to change faiths - my family is Catholic even though most feel the same way I do. I know my parents are glad I’m still around even we don’t have the fetus/child that had to be removed in order to stop the bleeding. I don’t believe that abortion should be used as a form of birth control but neither do I believe that someone should have to die if ending the pregnancy (no matter how rare this may occur) is the only deffinate way to make sure the mother lives.
God Bless
Rye
There are two instances where I believe that abortion can be necessary - one has occured personally with me - and that is that I would have died had the doctor not stopped the pregnancy due to blood loss. I’ve been told by some that this wasn’t really an abortion - had the pregnancy been further along they might have been able to save the child. Had the pregnancy continued without helping me to cease bleeding then both myself and the fetus/child would have died. Some on here believe that this obviously would have been what God wanted and I believe they are entitled to their opinion - others that have gone a little overboard with trying to get me to “realize” this and I have wound up blocking them. Personally, I have a problem with the idea that it would be better to have two die than one live. Some prolife speak about being fair to the fetus/child but what about being fair to the mother and the rest of her family? They say “choose life” but had the doctor not stopped the bleeding there wouldn’t have been either life left - we did choose life - in this case my life and I’m greatful my doctor had enough sense to tell us when nothing else could be done. I’m glad to be alive. I love God and believe in Him and there seem to be quite a few on here who seem to think that had the doctor only waited a few more minutes that God might have preformed a miracle and I would have been able to keep the pregnancy going - None of us wanted me to wind up dying on the chance that God might do a miracle and suddenly keep me from bleeding out. No good comes from two dying when one can live.
The second situation where I believe a woman should be allowed to determine whether to keep the pregnancy or not is when there is rape or incest. Many pro lifers say that it’s not fair to the child -but I say, it’s not fair to the mother to have to carry around a constant reminder of what happened to her. If she feels she can handle it then that’s her decision too.
I don’t want to change faiths - my family is Catholic even though most feel the same way I do. I know my parents are glad I’m still around even we don’t have the fetus/child that had to be removed in order to stop the bleeding. I don’t believe that abortion should be used as a form of birth control but neither do I believe that someone should have to die if ending the pregnancy (no matter how rare this may occur) is the only deffinate way to make sure the mother lives.
God Bless
Rye
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Benadam
Guest
So sorry about your loss. I think what happened to you and your child was just a sad situation with an unfortunate outcome. Everybody did their best… no one is to blame for loss of life.
A child wouldn’t become a reminder , the mother and child will bond. It would be a forgetter. She would be so glad she didn’t end the life of the person she loves and so loves her.
A child wouldn’t become a reminder , the mother and child will bond. It would be a forgetter. She would be so glad she didn’t end the life of the person she loves and so loves her.
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beafedor
Guest
I’m so sorry that this tragic situation happened to you. Destroying the child doesn’t have the power to save the mother’s life. Even abortionists agree on this. Removing some tissues or organs that surround or contain the child in order to save the mother’s life is not considered as an abortion. The intend is not to kill the child but the child’s death is a tragic consequence of the procedure. I’m thankful that you are alive today.
I’d like to share info about the cases of rape/incest that you are mentioning. The Elliott Institute has done a survey of 192 women who were pregnant as a result of sexual assault and some had an abortion, some of them kept their baby.
Surprisingly, 80% of those who have aborted regret it while none of those who had their child wish they had had an abortion. A few quotes from these women:
“I think that rape victims with pregnancies are discriminated against because people seem to think you’re nuts to have a baby by a man who raped you. We are looked upon as being liars, or stupid.” —Sharon “Bailey”
“They say abortion is the easy way out, the best thing for everyone, but they are wrong. It has been over 15 years, and I still suffer.” —“Rebecca Morris”
“Abortion does not help or solve a problem—it only compounds and creates another trauma for the already grieving victim by taking away the one thing that can bring joy.” —Helene Evans
“I, having lived through rape, and having raised a child ‘conceived in rape,’ feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal for rape and incest. I feel that we’re being used to further the abortion issue, even though we’ve not been asked to tell our side of the story.” —Kathleen DeZeeuw
afterabortion.org/Victims/index.htm
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gakroeger
Guest
Your story is certainly a tragic one and you did nothing wrong. The Church does not teach that a Mother must continue a pregnancy when the mother’s life is truly in danger; the problem is that this is a rare situation and abortion is far from rare. By supporting the people who call themselves “pro choice” you are supporting the continuation of millions of unnecessary abortions. Statistics show that the danger to women under normal situations is greater when they have an abortion for other than medical reasons than to have a normal delivery. In other words, unless there is a medical reason for the abortion, it is safer for the woman to carry the pregnancy to normal delivery rather than have an abortion. The logical decision should be adoption, however, Planned Parenthood does not make money on adoptions.
These “pro choice” people use the rare occasions of risk to mother and rape to justify the abortion industry to continue to abort baby’s for no other reason than the convenience of those who would be responsible and for the profit margin of Planned Parenthood.
I do disagree with your stance on rape victims for the same reasons as above. The rape victim has already been traumatized, abortion only adds more trauma; there are hundreds of good people walking around that were the result of rape, I don’t think anyone of them would agree with your position on rape victims having an abortion.
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ryecroft
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Caramel
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Dear Rye,
I am very sorry about your loss. If you check the Catechism of the Catholic Church you will see that what happened to you was not considered an abortion as it was not the intentional killing of an unborn child - it was done to save your life.
As for your second point, I don’t believe that abortion should be allowed in cases of rape and/or incest. Half of the child come from the mother. And why should the unborn child receive the death penalty for something that she had no control over? If anyone should be punished it is the rapist. And he will be punished - if not in this life, then in the next (unless he repents.)
I realize that it might seem sad to carry a child that has not been conceived through human love. But that same child has been conceived through the love of God and is still a precious human being. Why kill her? Is that any better than what the rapist did? Why let a rapist turn a woman into someone who would kill her own child? If you truly believe that what you are carrying inside your womb is a precious child there is no way you can justify killing her.
I knew somebody who was raped at age 13. She was a virgin and she became pregnant. She had the child and raised him with the help of her parents. What an accomplishment!! Out of heartbreak can come such joy!!
Again, I am sorry for your loss. I lost a child before birth and I know the heartbreak. Many of us on this forum and in this particular thread are very aware of how much it hurts.
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Caramel
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Caramel
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Let’s just say that I PM’d him to thank him for his words and he was very gracious.
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marybridget123
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ryecroft
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Worthy5
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Elizabeth502
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gakroeger
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This is what abortion kills
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Caramel
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Well I think that about sums it up.
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jmcrae
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I will never believe that it is appropriate to deal out the death penalty to the criminal’s innocent child. Nor will I ever believe that a woman who has been raped will be cured of the trauma by having her womb attacked a second time, to kill the unborn innocent one inside.
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elts1956
Guest
I sympathize with you whole heartedly. Yours was a rare case. It sounds more like a miscarriage than what one might call an abortion. I just hope the priests you mention made their statements in connection with your particular case and not as a general statement. If they were speaking in generalities, you know they are not in agreement with Church teachings.
Gos Bless You.
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Worthy5
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ryecroft
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I know of at least a couple of women that would disagree on what you say about rape victims, Worthy. I know of three at least that extremely greatful to be able to take the morning after pill and one who did have an abortion. For these women the continued trauma was not that of having an abortion the trauma was the idea of carrying a piece of the man who raped them inside of them. That’s why I think there should be choice for these women - some believe it’s something that something good can come from - others would be shaken to their core by having to carry around a part of a rapist within them baby or not. You say it’s not fair to the fetus that’s being carried - I say it’s not fair to the mother to make this choice for her. You seem to believe that abortion almost always causes emotional problems but I know of plenty who have no problem with it. I agree that this doesn’t make it right all the time but I certainly don’t want to push what I believe on to someone else who doesn’t believe this. There is a huge difference of opinion here - and we’ll just have to agree to disagree -
God Bless
Rye
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