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Tomdstone
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The support for Jesse Ventura indicates the quality and generally low level of American politics today.
Record High- 42% of Americans Identify as Independents" Republican identification lowest in at least 25 years
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powerofk
Guest
I abhor both major political parties. That being said, I am an extremely pro-life person who works in the public schools. I’ve seen the destruction of lives from the Democrats and the destruction of childhood from Republicans. We have two parties who care nothing about gaining and maintaining power - two parties who spread platitudes yet only think about what will get them re-elected. As for me, my political party is the Catholic Church.This baffles me,that Conservatives can win on the local/state level,ie: Scott Walker,John Kaschich,both from liberal,union driven states,yet on national level we lose
The poll said 42% of Americans are “Independent”. It’s hard to tell how many are in each group, but there are probably about 4 or 5 groups of people in the “Independent” camp.
Group 1: Conservatives who think the GOP is “too liberal” and acts as a “Dem-lite”.
Group 2: Liberals who think the Dems are “too conservative”, and act as a “GOP-lite”.
Group 3: People who don’t feel at home in either party - the so-called “moderates” who have been pretty much kicked out of both parties.
Group 4: People who are sick of the bickering that the parties have.
Group 5: People who don’t vote.
Of course, some of these groups overlap (especially in groups 3, 4, and 5).
Regardless, the reason why people such as Walker can win on a state level is because a large portion of people in the Dem party stay home in non-Presidential election years when a Democrat is in the White House.
The reason the GOP seems to think they can win MI in a Presidential election is because MI has a GOP governor and has had a GOP majority in both houses of the MI legislature for a long time, yet the last time MI voted for a Republican for President was in 1988 (before that, MI usually voted for the Republican candidate).
In addition, states such as Wyoming have had Democratic governors and senators. State races are often much different than national races.
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adawgj
Guest
The reason I used Perot was because Jesse he wants to be in the debates and run on an independent ticket (which Perot did). However I too doubt he’ll be like Perot.
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ishii
Guest
I think one reason why conservatives can win at the state level is that their message is less likely to be filtered through the Democrat dominated national media. The candidate’s message is perhaps allowed to reach the voters more than at the national level where the candidates message is based mainly on a series of sound bites and perhaps a debate performance, but is also defined by the media.This baffles me,that Conservatives can win on the local/state level,ie: Scott Walker,John Kaschich,both from liberal,union driven states,yet on national level we lose
As for Walker and Kasich, remember that the Midwest, while union driven, is not necessarily secular leftist. This is in contrast to the state of Washington where its nearly impossible for a Republican governor to be elected. (actually, Dino Rossi was elected but had it stolen away).
Ishii
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ishii
Guest
I think Jesse Ventura would be a joke and distract the voters from the issues. There are too many important things at stake to make the next election a side show with Jesse Ventura or some other 3rd party fringe candidate.
Ishii
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LisaA
Guest
They say all politics is local. There are a number of states with a classic Democrat demographic mix, as you noted unions in the midwest, where Republicans can do very well. I think someone like Scott Walker might be a dark horse candidate for President as he has succeeded in a Democrat state, isn’t a pot and pan banger, and has beaten back several attempts to derail his agenda. I think the next two years should see more conservative candidates succeed.This baffles me,that Conservatives can win on the local/state level,ie: Scott Walker,John Kaschich,both from liberal,union driven states,yet on national level we lose
As iishi said we on the LEFTIST Coast are basically overwhelmed. Imagine a Republican winning California or Washington or Oregon on a national basis? But here and there within the saner parts of the state
we have a more independent electorate who will vote for a Republican for the state house. Further what turns our states are the huge urban areas in a large state with lots of smaller counties. The urban areas dominate national politics but if you were to look at the counties where Republicans do well, the acreage is far greater! It’s like looking at the Presidential map and you see tiny bits of land, New York/New England and the Left Coast with the island of Illinois (home to more jailed governors than any other state!!!) as a few bastions of Leftism but about 95% of American “land” is conservative.Lisa
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ComputerGeek25
Guest
If 42% of the independents actually voted for an independent party, maybe we would see things change.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
Good point! I’ve heard it said that those who identify as independent’s really do align themselves with one party or the other but prefer to remain secrative about it
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ComputerGeek25
Guest
I think in my state, the election board(s) won’t take 3rd parties seriously unless they get a certain percentage of the vote. In the last presidential election, many of my friends were fed up with all the rhetoric. We live in a heavily Democratic state. I encouraged them to vote third party, or nothing will change.Good point! I’ve heard it said that those who identify as independent’s really do align themselves with one party or the other but prefer to remain secrative about it
I pointed out the fact that other than a few hot button issues, which is arguable that they would keep their promises, that there was no major difference between the major parties. And I would bring up the fact that some of the issues could be solved simply. For example, we could give any Federal benefits to anyone we so choose, so the issue of gay “marriage” would go away over night, and it would be “equality” for any type of “relationship.” Sure, may not be optimal, but I don’t think I have met anyone on either side of the issue who said they had no major issues with it.
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LisaA
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Look I agree Republicans and Democrats are human and fallen humans at that. But there are major differences, not just the hot buttons of gay marriage or gun control but such areas as the expansion of government control of our lives. Only Democrats would be stopping the Exel and Keystone pipeline. Only Democrats would want vast expansion of ineffective and expensive programs…Headstart anyone? How about those green energy debacles?
HUGE differences and as Catholics we cannot support pro aborts most of whom reside with a big D behind their names. So voting Democrat is a non-starter. I like the more Libertarian wing of the Republican party on fiscal issues but their social issues stance is also a non starter. As long as we have to choose a party and in this state primaries are CLOSED, I’ll take Republicans over any Democrat I’ve seen on a local or national stage
Lisa
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ComputerGeek25
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I agree with you Lisa, and that the Republicans are “better” on many issues. I would vote Republican over a Democrat every day and twice on Sundays. But sometimes we are forced to hold our nose and vote Republican. I was pointing out that many people, like myself, are frustrated with that. Do you think McCain or Romney were the best candidates the GOP could have run against Obama?
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LisaA
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McCain no. I was soooo sorry he was nominated. Really a disaster. Romney was a mixed bag as a candidate. Since I wanted him to be the nominee and got stuck with McCain in 08 I didn’t have the same problems with him as others did and let’s just say his CAMPAIGN was REALLY a mixed bag. But I don’t think any Republican could have won against Obama in 08. In 2012 those I really liked didn’t run and a few I hoped for didn’t work out…Perry for example sounded good in theory but didn’t execute well. The lengthy campaign, too many debates and the hosts of those debates were deadly. I hope we’ve learned from these mistakes. Overall I like the Republican platform. I just wish the candidates would read it
Lisa
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miguel
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I have no idea. IMO, GW, Sean Hannity, and Hugh Hewitt basically destroyed the Republican party. They were the cause of Obamacare too. I’ve said this before, I voted GOP since Reagan (still proud of that choice), including GW twice (very embarrassing I know). GW was a disaster for the GOP. I’m pro-life. During the 2006 midterms, I finally saw the choice as endless abortion on the one hand and endless abortion on the other. So the other thing that weighed in for me was the prospect of endless war if the GOP continued to win. So I stayed home. I haven’t heard any of these people say anything to convince me to change my mind about continuing to stay home. As for abortion, which to me is far and away the most important issue, the only statistic I’ll be watching for in the future is a precipitous decline the annual baby killing death toll. If I see that and a clear connection between that and the GOP’s policies, I’ll start voting for them again. God Bless.
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ishii
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Regarding your last sentence, are you aware of the pro-life victories at the state level due to GOP efforts? It is very easy to dismiss the GOP based on slogans (bush lied thousands died, endless war, etc.) but the truth is, the only part really making an effort to promote the sanctity of life of the unborn is the GOP. Every time I read an article or see a link to what the GOP is doing at the state level I am reminded that there are real differences between the two parties (and not just on abortion) and a Catholic should consider that as they try to vote according to Catholic moral principles.
Furthermore, Catholics should understand that the Democrat party is pretty much a morally bankrupt mafia that uses the IRS, FBI to silence anyone who challenges them and adopted the agenda of the secular left - of abortion on demand, gay marriage, forcing nuns to offer contraceptives, etc. The GOP might not be perfect, but they are the only party with the ability and desire (still) to oppose this agenda. So stay at home if you want, but do expect to see more victories of the secular left, more policies like the HHS mandate, and more babies killed.
Ishii
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SuperLuigi
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I doubt any conservative would argue that the Romney campaign didn’t shoot itself in the foot.
It’s not liberals who go around saying “leave to republicans to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory”.
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VanSensei
Guest
This is good news. I quit the Republican Party because of their Obamacare diatribes. It was a lost cause in 2009. I don’t like the Democrats much because of their rampant socialist ideas.
Ironically, if the 2016 election happened today and it was Christie/Clinton, I’d probably vote for Hilary Clinton. Chris Christie is starting to come off as politically corrupt. If he’s gonna pull some strings to get his way in New Jersey, who knows what he could do nationally?
Ironically, if the 2016 election happened today and it was Christie/Clinton, I’d probably vote for Hilary Clinton. Chris Christie is starting to come off as politically corrupt. If he’s gonna pull some strings to get his way in New Jersey, who knows what he could do nationally?
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Jonah Goldberg had some thoughts on this: “The reason why (blue states) elect republican governors is because they want to track more carefully where their money is going.”This baffles me,that Conservatives can win on the local/state level,ie: Scott Walker,John Kaschich,both from liberal,union driven states,yet on national level we lose
Notice that even in the northeast north of Maryland that every single state (including Vermont) in the last 20 years has elected a GOP governor at least once.
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ProVobis
Guest
This should be a statistic readily available. However, it seems, maybe for political purposes, the number seems to be very slow in making public until years later. Where are last month’s totals, for example? War casualties we get daily.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
I think that’s what a lot of democrats and liberals don’t understand. We don’t have the same undying love and devotion to our leaders; we tend to view the vast majority of them with skepticism because of the disastrous results that big government yields.
They often seem to misinterpret this as people agreeing with their ideas and that they must be right.
That’s progressive logic for ya!
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SuperLuigi
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Won’t happen. A lot of independents are actually pretty partisan.
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