"recovering Catholics"?

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How about a belief in rationality, free thought and critical thinking that is not dependent upon superstition or unseen spirits?
I was thinking about the unseen ‘seven.’ I cannot see seven but I know that it is real. When I ask my wife to hand me seven nails, she brings me the right number but there in her hand are only nails, no seven. We represent seven like this ‘7’ but some countries represent it like this ‘V.’ I’ve never seen a seven but I truly believe in it.
 
phantasm only believes in what he/she can see. No belief is required in their belief system, other than believing what one sees, which of course can be just as dangerous.

Now had phantasm gone through what some of us had gone through with things that cannot be explained away, then I think they would have a different outlook.

I for one have had some unexplainable and wonderful experiences. What I am so amazed at and wish I could do myself is have my beliefs but have them through faith without proof. I have such admiration for those of you who have never had a spiritual experience, yet you love God with all your heart and soul. I am glad I had my experiences, but I shudder to think what would happen if I did not.

If I had never had those things happen to me, I probably would be in phantasm’s shoes - constantly trying to outthink or outdo Catholics to prove that I was right. I don’t think they realize that other people have had their own proof and no amount of trying to “show us reality” is going to make that proof go away.
 
Who reated you? Are you not happy to have a chance at life?
Random chance. If I didn’t exist, I wouldn’t know any different.
God permits evil for the sake of a greater good.
What else are you going to say at the complete inaction of your apparently omnipotent and omni-benevolent Deity.

Tell that to the unseen and unknown victims of child abuse. You know, the ones that are abused and murdered by their abusers and there isn’t a person in the world who cares, let alone notices. Where’s the Godly silver lining there? I’m sure you’ll come up with some ridiculous goodness that the good Lord provides for these invisible children. :rolleyes:
 
How about a belief in rationality, free thought and critical thinking that is not dependent upon superstition or unseen spirits?
No such animal exists. Atheists and Rationalists take as much (if not more) on faith and ‘unseen spirits’ than Theists. They just couch it in different vocabulary.
 
I am not obliged to be diplomatic with those who mock the Faith that I love and to mock the Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself. Those who do this, do so at their peril. I do not and cannot judge who will be worthy of Hell, but to mock Christ and His Church seems to me to be a very good way to place oneself in danger of damnation.
 
Random chance. If I didn’t exist, I wouldn’t know any different.
But the fact is you DO exist.
What else are you going to say at the complete inaction of your apparently omnipotent and omni-benevolent Deity.
Do you know there was no action?
Tell that to the unseen and unknown victims of child abuse. You know, the ones that are abused and murdered by their abusers and **there isn’t a person in the world who cares, let alone notices. **
No one cares? No one notices? Wow. I’m sure Mother Teresa and her Missionaries of Charity would be surprised you think nobody cares.
Where’s the Godly silver lining there? I’m sure you’ll come up with some ridiculous goodness that the good Lord provides for these invisible children. :rolleyes:
Don’t you think you’re being presumptious here? Just because you or I don’t see the answer or why of something is doesn’t mean there isn’t one. Evil has been subject of theologians and philosphers since the beginning of time. The presence of Evil does not negate the Goodness of God.
 
The science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, “Let me explain the problem science has with religion.” He then asks one of his new students
“Ar you a Christian?”
“Yes sir,” the student says.

“So you believe in God?”
“Yes.”

“Is God good?”
“Yes.”

“Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?”
“Yes.”

“Do you believe in Evil”
“Yes.”

“Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?”

“Yes.”

"You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. But God doesn’t. My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? "

“Is God good?”
“yes,” the student says.

“Is Satan good?”
“No.”

“Then where does Satan come from?”
“From God”

“God made Satan?”
“Yes.”

“Evil’s everywhere. And God did make everything, correct?”
“Yes.”

“So who created evil?” “If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil. Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? Do they exist in this world?”

“Yes.”

Prof “Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?”

"No "

“Have you heard Jesus?”
“No”

“Have you felt Jesus, tasted Jesus or smelt Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?”

“No,”
“Yet you believe in him?”
“Yes.”

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says God doesn’t exist. And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, "

Student, “Professor, is there such thing as heat?”

“Yes, There’s heat.”

“And is there such a thing as cold?”
“Yes, son, there’s cold too.”
“No sir, there isn’t.”

Student. “You can have heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.”

“Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero is the total absence of heat. Cold is a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.”

“What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?”

“Yes,” the professor replies without hesitation. “What is night if it isn’t darkness?”

“You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word.”

“In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?”

Your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

“You are working on the premise of duality,” the student explains. “You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Science can’t even explain a thought.”

“It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.”

“Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?”

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, "

“Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?”
“No”

“Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you now teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?”

The student asked, “Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain.”

“If science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?”

“Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,” the student continues. “Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?”

The professor responds, “We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”

The student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
 
“Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?”

“Yes.”

":1
Your analogy is good. But I would answer, " No, I would not save everyone." Death is not bad or evil. It occurs to every living thing on the planet.

The reason that we humans see it as bad is because we can not see the bigger picture of God’s plan for us. Our soul does not end with death; we go on. Yes, I realize that you know that.🙂 But I think that the student’s answer shouldn’t have been yes.

Then again, maybe it ruins a very good analogy if the student gave a more complex answer.😊😛
 
Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."
Gods love at work;

Numbers 31:17

Slay, therefore, every male child and every woman who has had intercourse with a man.
But you may spare and keep for yourselves all girls who had no intercourse with a man.

2 Chronicles 21:15

The LORD will strike your people, your children, your wives, and all that is yours with a great plague; and you shall have severe pains from a disease in your bowels, while your bowels issue forth because of the disease, day after day.’

Your entire post was written for a religious simpleton, who hasn’t a clue that you cannot undermine science based upon nothing more than attacking common English terms used to articulate a particular sense.

Regardless, I need nothing more than your good book and your Holy Church to clearly demonstrate the horrors of the Bible and Lord.

Your post was right about one thing, there truly is no evidence that any God exists, let alone your Christian brand of God.
 
Your post was right about one thing, there truly is no evidence that any God exists, let alone your Christian brand of God.
“I never wish to attend the death of an Unbeliever again, he cried and begged for forgiveness and mercy all night.”
(Voltaire’s nurse at his deathbed.)

Of course, you are much smarter than Voltaire.
 
“I never wish to attend the death of an Unbeliever again, he cried and begged for forgiveness and mercy all night.”
(Voltaire’s nurse at his deathbed.)

Of course, you are much smarter than Voltaire.
Although I’ve committed the unforgivable sin, you don’t have to worry. If I change my mind and believe there is a God, I still have lots of brands to choose from.

I can become a Muslim, a Hindu, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Sikh, heck I’d make a great Scientologist.

I’m sure one of those other Gods would be happy to have me worshiping him or them!
 
Although I’ve committed the unforgivable sin, you don’t have to worry. If I change my mind and believe there is a God, I still have lots of brands to choose from.
I can become a Muslim, a Hindu, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Sikh, heck I’d make a great Scientologist.
I’m not in the least worried. You are the one who should be worried.
 
The difference being that there is no hell for rejecting Algebra. However your glorious Lord so thoughtfully created such a place for the majority of his children and especially those who reject the Holy Spirit.
God did not create Hell… the devil did. God is not going to tolerate evil in his Heaven and Satan chose evil… All those who also choose evil will end up there… not becaue God wants them there but becaues THEY want (so they think) to be there…
I assure you, telling children that there is an invisible God that can read their minds and will punish for eternity any that are unrepentant, is forced indoctrination into a system of belief, that can only be believed by faith.
seems you are indoctrinated by the forces that do not teach this (the secular world, a religion unto itself)… To be indoctrinated to truth is a good thing, not a bad thing. Seems as soon as someone mentions the word Indoctrination, everyone interprets that as ‘bad’ :rolleyes:
What 8 year old child of devout Catholics has the choice to opt out of this religious indoctrination? I’d suggest that none have such a choice.
well, should we wait until they can CHOOSE to have their diapers changed before we “interfere” and change them ourselves?? .
Recovering Catholic, although a humorous term, it does touch on truth, in that it takes a long time for many former Catholics to lose their fear of hell and the weight of the rule based system of salvation that is fed to them by the Roman Catholic Church.
“Fear of God is the beginning of all wisdom”

I’ve learned this from experience more than i have from the Church… In fact, the Church doesn’t do enough… It hardly can be said to go out of its way to “indoctrinate” its members… If it had, i would have been spared an awful lot of heartache and pain and so would many others whose lives i impacted… all this misery taking place because I was NOT indoctrinated… while i was messed up from all the indoctrination i got from the world, the flesh and the devil…

I’ll take the indoctrination of the Church over any other…

If you could walk in my shoes one mile you would know why…
 
Although I’ve committed the unforgivable sin, you don’t have to worry. If I change my mind and believe there is a God, I still have lots of brands to choose from.

I can become a Muslim, a Hindu, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Sikh, heck I’d make a great Scientologist.

I’m sure one of those other Gods would be happy to have me worshiping him or them!
you don’t know Christ… He is not anything like those religious people you mention…

He is not even much like what most christians say or believe…

If you were Catholic (devoutly and informed)… you would know waht i am talking about… but trying to explain to someone who doesn’t know… is, well, out of my field of expertise or something…
 
Gods love at work;

{snip}

Your entire post was written for a religious simpleton, who hasn’t a clue that you cannot undermine science based upon nothing more than attacking common English terms used to articulate a particular sense.

Regardless, I need nothing more than your good book and your Holy Church to clearly demonstrate the horrors of the Bible and Lord.

Your post was right about one thing, there truly is no evidence that any God exists, let alone your Christian brand of God.
Is effete intellectualism a required belief in your church of Atheism?
 
The student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1
very long post…

but glad i read (skimmed) through it…

Evil is the absence of good… the absence of God… Yes, that is soemthing to think about…

but as to that one question the professor asked: Have you ever seen Jesus, touched JEsus… ? well, in a way, we touch Him in a very real, tangible way, both through the Word and in His Real Presence…

and there is no touching like that… because in touching Him that way, Jesus gives us what we truly NEED… the ladder to Heaven…

Absolute Truth…

… Whether we can handle that truth, however, is another story… :eek: 😦
 
{snip}
but as to that one question the professor asked: Have you ever seen Jesus, touched JEsus… ? well, in a way, we touch Him in a very real, tangible way, both through the Word and in His Real Presence…

and there is no touching like that… because in touching Him that way, Jesus gives us what we truly NEED… the ladder to Heaven…

Absolute Truth…

… Whether we can handle that truth, however, is another story… :eek: 😦
Well, I thought about the touching, tasting, and feeling too. Since I receive Jesus’ body, blood, soul, and divinity daily. But I was appealing to the Atheist who does not believe in the Real Presence.

Absolute Truth? - I cannot wrap my puny little mind around infinity. So high are God’s ways above my ways.🤷
 
deb1;
For some reason those of us who have converted from Protestant are generally appreciative of our backgrounds, while Catholics who convert to Protestantism appear angry at their former faith. I don’t know why this is.:shrug
That seems odd to me. I know a number of former Roman Catholics like myself, and not a one is angry at the church. We just en mass didn’t agree with certain dogma. There was no animosity. I am sure there are some who do feel so, most probably those that have been abused in some way by church clergy, but honestly I do know a lot of former RC’s and none express any anger. Pointing out it’s shortcomings happens of course, from their and certainly my point of view. But in reality my remembrances are almost all positive from the clergy on down.
 
I’m a recovering Catholic.

I think your missing the point entirely.

It’s a humorous term to express how someone is in the process of cleansing themselves from their Roman Catholic indoctrination.

I would think that their are very few people who aim to be taken seriously when they claim that they’re recovering Catholics.
You know that is exactly what I thought. I’ve heard people use the term and always thought they were making a bit of a joke, which was always backed up by a grin and a laugh.

To me it refers to this: think of the stereotypes about Catholics. We all know that they are mostly false, so when I say “recovering Catholic” I’m making a joke on the stereotypical Catholic who is supposedly sexually repressed and living in the dark ages to some degree. I never took it as any kind of serious statement of hatred for the church itself.
 
hosemonkey;4948145:
Jesus Christ himself said very little to those that mocked him beyond a quiet ‘Father, forgive them,’ offered no sharp-tongued words even as they hung him on a cross. We are no better than our Master, and as they mocked him, they will most certainly mock us. The bible tells us that much. History tells us that much.

When I experience people like that who mock or ridicule my faith, I do my best to smile and bear it… or engage them in conversation. I try to ask why they’re so anti-Catholic or anti-Christian, etc. In situations where that’s not viable (like at work, where you aren’t supposed to discuss religion or politics), I just keep quiet. God knows I would hate to be even part of the reason why someone turns their back on God.

The results of my labors? A JW friend of mine is all the wiser about the Catholic faith, and my formerly pagan friend is entering RCIA this fall. 👍
I have asked my Roman Catholics friends here this thing many times. Why they speak in a manner to turn away those very people they so claim they wish to save. You are a most rational human being. I suspect that some here, who they are I know not, use this “admonish the sinner” and “defend the faith” as a veil through which they can release the anger and hatred they feel about issues that have little to do with the subject at hand. It is a pity.
 
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