"recovering Catholics"?

[Stephen168]

It also stands to reason

that `He would protect the Church His son began to “build” on Earth from teaching error. God knows better than anyone .( I’m sure you’ll admit)… how error-prone humans are… Proof of how error-prone we are… is the existence of all the (man-made) differing churches, all teaching differing things…
SpiritMeadow;4972264:

I see no particular reason

why God would ordain that any church be kept free from error. If that is the case, then God has usurped from humanity that which he granted, free will to learn and use the minds he gave us.

This is the fallacy of composition. What is true for the part is true for the whole. The Edsel was bad, so all Fords are bad. The Church doesn’t have free will, so mankind doesn’t have free will.

I didn’t suggest that, you did.

So it is reasonable that Christ would protect his Church from error.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Sounds like your telling me that I’ve got to put a different spin on the good Lord giving children a painful bowel disease.

It’s written, it happened, it’s your God, it’s your faith, it’s Gods painful bowel disease, deal with it.

There are plenty more references to a loving and merciful God.

The purpose of the OT is not to relate historical facts, but to tell a story. The OT writers were less concerned with reporting in precise detail all the facts of a situation than with explaining the meaning of those facts. The stories were written by men, interpreting events according to their primitive understanding.

People get sick. It’s a fact. Primitive peoples attributed it to God punishing. Jesus told us it was not the case.

You are standing in the 21st century reading ancient writings within 21st century context.

 

[josie_L]

I’m a recovering Catholic.

I think your missing the point entirely.

It’s a humorous term to express how someone is in the process of cleansing themselves from their Roman Catholic indoctrination.

I would think that their are very few people who aim to be taken seriously when they claim that they’re recovering Catholics.

What part of the “indoctrination” did you have to cleanse yourself of?

The part where you were told to love your neighbors as you would want them to love you, or was it loving your enemies that you disliked and found difficult, or maybe it was sacrificing for the good of others (and God) that you found offensive.

P.S. I honestly don’t understand how someone who was washed clean of roman catholic indoctrination would then proceed to join the biggest Catholic forum on the Internet.

 

[josie_L]

hosemonkey;4946410:

Your post reminds of something Mohandas Ghandi said;

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

And so that absolves you of your initial rudeness, stop being such a hypocrite.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

So it is reasonable that Christ would protect his Church from error.

I have no clue how you put those 4 things together and come to this conclusion. It defies logic.

Just by way of argument, one could say that you are right, that is a reasonable conclusion. That however doesn’t make it so, and doesn’t stop a plethora of other reasonable conclusions. One could make a reasoned argument that God, desiring that everyone get it right, would right a “bible” that was short, clear, emphatic. Do this, don’t do this, this is what you must be believe. That would be reasonable. It did not happen however.

 

[josie_L]

Random chance. If I didn’t exist, I wouldn’t know any different.

Are you saying you would have been happier if you hadn’t existed? Is there no joy in your life presently?

P.S. I am curious to know why you chose this particular username if you are as you say an atheist?

 

[josie_L]

I really, really tried to believe it. Except, the absurdity of the belief insulted my rational senses, and I simply could not lie to myself. When I finally admitted that I did not believe in the real presence, I now know, it was the beginning of my departure.

I have more respect for a Catholic who believes in the real presence, than a “Catholic” who maintains they are a real Catholic, yet believes the Eucharist is merely a spiritual representation of Christ.

Point 1:

If everything we believed concerning God could be rationally explained, faith would not be necessary to our salvation.

Point 2:

It is irrational to believe that the immaterial can be explained through our five senses.

Point 3:

Miracles have happened and continue to happen that defy the rational.

I would suggest you do extensive research on the Miracles of Fatima, Lourdes, Gaudelupe, incorrupted saints, and eucharistic miracles (the Lanciano miracle is my favorite). . . etc.

God Bless.

 

[josie_L]

“Recovering Catholic” is for the most part, a humorous term and is not to be taken seriously.

I am here for debate, conversation, free thought and appeal to the rational mind.

If I detect that a person calls themselves Catholic, yet holds liberal Protestant Progressive Christian views, I most certainly will call them out.

In other words, you’re part of the new and growing breed of “evangelizing” atheists, how oxymoronic!

 

[Stephen168]

I have no clue how you put those 4 things together and come to this conclusion. It defies logic.

It was logical enough for you to get the answer:

Just by way of argument, one could say that you are right, that is a reasonable conclusion.

My point exactly.

That however doesn’t make it so, and doesn’t stop a plethora of other reasonable conclusions.

True

One could make a reasoned argument that God, desiring that everyone get it right, would right a “bible” that was short, clear, emphatic. Do this, don’t do this, this is what you must be believe. That would be reasonable. It did not happen however.

Right, he left the Catholic Church to keep the true deposit of faith.

 

[phantasm]

There are plenty more references to a loving and merciful God.

Why are you so inclined to embrace those good references and rationalize away all of the references to God being blood thirsty, jealous, wrathful and vengeful?

I don’t see you rationalizing away all of the good stuff, just the bad.

That’s cherry picking in the worst kind of way.

 

[phantasm]

What part of the “indoctrination” did you have to cleanse yourself of?

P.S. I honestly don’t understand how someone who was washed clean of roman catholic indoctrination would then proceed to join the biggest Catholic forum on the Internet.

That I was born a dirty, filthy, low life sinner. That eternal damnation awaits, if I do not perfectly follow the rule based Catholic faith. That there is an invisible God reading my every thought and watching me every minute of the day, even when using the toilet!

I’m so relieved to have gotten rid of those superstitious beliefs.

Why have I joined? I have the freedom to do so and thoughts to share with whomever chooses to listen. I used to be in different shoes…I don’t know how intellectually honest it is to surround yourself solely with like minded individuals.

I hope that people will see that I am generally happy and I am very much unafraid.

 

[phantasm]

Are you saying you would have been happier if you hadn’t existed? Is there no joy in your life presently?

P.S. I am curious to know why you chose this particular username if you are as you say an atheist?

Phantasm… I likes the sound! ( Don’t read into usernames too much, your bound to get dissapointed)

If I didn’t exist, it wouldn’t make a difference to me, as I wouldn’t know any different, as there wouldn’t be any " I ".

Am I glad I exist?

Damn right.

It’s an odd question your asking, how can someone be happier if they didn’t exist? There is no person, there is no I, in non-existence. There is no consciousness, there is no entity in which to ponder this question.

 

[josie_L]

That I was born a dirty, filthy, low life sinner. False, the Catholic Church has never taught this.

That eternal damnation awaits, if I do not perfectly follow the rule based Catholic faith. Again, false, unless you’re in serious violation of a major doctrine.
That there is an invisible God reading my every thought and watching me every minute of the day, even when using the toilet! I think God has more interesting things to do.

Why have I joined? I have the freedom to do so and thoughts to share with whomever chooses to listen. I used to be in different shoes…I don’t know how intellectually honest it is to surround yourself solely with like minded individuals.

Good, maybe all is not lost. Hope to have many a faith-filled and rational conversation.

I hope that people will see that I am generally happy and I am very much unafraid.

If you’re happy with your life, then you should show some respect to the one who gave it to you.

Here is what the Cathecism as to say about us sinners:

The Dignity of the Human Person:

1701 ". . . It is in Christ, “the image of the invisible God,” that man has been created “in the image and likeness” of the Creator. It is in Christ, Redeemer and Saviour, that the divine image, disfigured in man by the first sin, has been restored to its original beauty and ennobled by the grace of God.

1702 The divine image is present in every man. It shines forth in the communion of persons, in the likeness of the unity of the divine persons among themselves.

1703 Endowed with “a spiritual and immortal” soul the human person is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake.” From his inception, he is destined for eternal beatitude.

1705 By virtue of his soul and his spiritual powers of intellect and will, man is endowed with freedom, an outstanding manifestation of the divine image."

 

[phantasm]

disfigured in man by the first sin

Close enough. I guarantee, a baby born tomorrow, does not have to pay for the mistakes of some guy named Adam six or ten thousand years ago.

If you think that baby does, that’s your problem.

 

[josie_L]

Phantasm… I likes the sound! ( Don’t read into usernames too much, your bound to get dissapointed)

If I didn’t exist, it wouldn’t make a difference to me, as I wouldn’t know any different, as there wouldn’t be any " I ".

Am I glad I exist?

Damn right.

It’s an odd question your asking, how can someone be happier if they didn’t exist? There is no person, there is no I, in non-existence. There is no consciousness, there is no entity in which to ponder this question.

No, its not odd, I was speaking in a hypothetical manner.

 

[josie_L]

Close enough. I guarantee, a baby born tomorrow, does not have to pay for the mistakes of some guy named Adam six or ten thousand years ago.

If you think that baby does, that’s your problem.

Distorted means that the original holiness in which God created us, was wounded by Adam and Eve’s disobedience, but never was it stated that we were or are filthy sinners. That is a very uncatholic thing to say.

Luckily for us, Jesus has restored that image, and it’s your problem if you don’t believe that.

 

[phantasm]

but never was it stated that we were or are filthy sinners. That is a very uncatholic thing to say.

.

Psalms 14:3

All have gone astray; all alike are perverse. Not one does what is right, not even one.

Romans 3:12

All have gone astray; all alike are worthless; there is not one who does good, (there is not) even one.

I guess I just can’t see the silver lining on calling a new born baby perverse and worthless.

Read your Bible, it’s all in there.

 

[josie_L]

Psalms 14:3

All have gone astray; all alike are perverse. Not one does what is right, not even one.

Romans 3:12

All have gone astray; all alike are worthless; there is not one who does good, (there is not) even one.

I guess I just can’t see the silver lining on calling a new born baby perverse and worthless.

Read your Bible, it’s all in there.

Why would Jesus give up his life (in a cruel and suffering manner) for all of humanity if we were truly worthless? “For God so loved the World He gave his only begotten Son.”

Read the Bible, it’s all in there.

I wanted to ask you a question since you keep bringing up babies, are you Pro-life?

 

[survive]

I’m a recovering atheist. I grew up against my will in a dogmatically strict atheist home where the guilt over being curious about the human soul and the supernatural feelings I had was so intense that I needed therapy.

 

[phantasm]

Why would Jesus give up his life (in a cruel and suffering manner) for all of humanity if we were truly worthless? “For God so loved the World He gave his only begotten Son.”

Read the Bible, it’s all in there.

I wanted to ask you a question since you keep bringing up babies, are you Pro-life?

Romans 3:12

All have gone astray;** all alike are worthless;** there is not one who does good, (there is not) even one.

You have some thinking to do. Your asking me this question? Your very own Bible, the New Testament clearly states that all persons are worthless. Your acting like I made this up!

Pro-choice.