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TEPO
Guest
According to modern terminology, the terms: Think Tank and Policy Institute are synonymous. This is the concept I’m talking about.
Reduction of violence connected to the production and distribution of drugs
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Now you might want to learn the definition of “policy institute.” The Church and organizations either funded by or officially supported by her engages in advocacy of certain social policies, economic policies, military policies, etc, etc, etc.
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Also, since when did Webster’s current dictionary not count as being modern or containing the definitions of modern terminology?
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TEPO
Guest
Maybe this will help.
hudson.org/files/publications/HudsonInternshipsExteinarticle.pdf
And
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_think_tanks_in_the_United_States
…as you can see, the Catholic Church is not listed in this list of Think Tanks. These organizations are full time think tanks… Nothing more nothing less… They admit that they are Think Tanks. They don’t try to ‘hide’ it or anything like that.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Top of the page for your wiki list-Maybe this will help.
hudson.org/files/publications/HudsonInternshipsExteinarticle.pdf
And
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_think_tanks_in_the_United_States
…as you can see, the Catholic Church is not listed in this list of Think Tanks. These organizations are full time think tanks… Nothing more nothing less… They admit that they are Think Tanks. They don’t try to ‘hide’ it or anything like that.
“This is an incomplete list, which may never be able to satisfy particular standards for completeness.”
:banghead:
But hey, I did see the Rand Corporation on the incomplete list. I only mention them because you’ve cited the works of one of their long time employees (Graham Fuller) in other threads.
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TEPO
Guest
Who cares if the list is incomplete, at least we now have a good idea as to what the concept of Think Tanks actually are, and we have a list with actual names of some and their websites.
Think Tanks are ‘real’ organizations. It is an actual function of modern day politics. Clearly.
…whether or not the CC is considered a Think Tank is a side issue. But I can assure you it isn’t. There also aren’t any official Islamic Think Tanks that I’ve ever heard of.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Better tell that to Quilliam and the Deen Research Center.Who cares if the list is incomplete, at least we now have a good idea as to what the concept of Think Tanks actually are, and we have a list with actual names of some and their websites.
Think Tanks are ‘real’ organizations. It is an actual function of modern day politics. Clearly.
…whether or not the CC is considered a Think Tank is a side issue. But I can assure you it isn’t. There also aren’t any official Islamic Think Tanks that I’ve ever heard of.
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mikekle
Guest
Not really, the Govt knows how much money is made thru the illegal drug trade, so knowing this, Im sure they also know if they were to make it legal, they could tax it and rake in the money, and never have economic problems ever again…but they do not…, and continue to let the cartels take all this money for themselves.
Yet, at the same time, they make sure the ‘sin’ taxes for items such as tobacco, alcohol are in place, and designed to bring in the money, so it appears to me, they encourage SOME harmful products usage, but, for some reason, have a problem with others…??? even though alcohol causes HUGE problems for hospitals, jails, police, killing innocent people in DUI wrecks, etc.
Moderation is not the reason, as ANYTHING can be used in moderation.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
A better comparison would be with tobacco as alcohol generally isn’t addictive. As for raking in the money, that is based on the assumption that a) the illegal non-taxed drug trade disappears and b) the legalization of drugs does not create the need for an increase in spending to combat the medical and social impact of legalized drug use.
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TEPO
Guest
Well, there appears to be a trend moving in that direction considering Cato, even though the majority of Americans would be opposed to the legalized production and distribution of cocaine and heroin.
You see, people don’t generally like what hard drugs do to people, which is why most people would prefer them to remain illegal… It’s these Think Tanks, who are soliciting the public for their legalization through generic media outlets such as TIME.
Clearly, capital seems to be preferred over prudence.
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TEPO
Guest
Unfortunately though, we’ve all come to realize that in America, after 5 or 10 years of solicitation, the public usually tend to become persuaded. Just look at gay marriage for example… But that could apply for any idea -depending on what kind of capital could be produced… But should we really be basing our laws on capitalism? Transforming an economic system into a social order…? 
that’s crossing the line IMHO.
that’s crossing the line IMHO.
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mikekle
Guest
Yes, but 20 years ago, NO ONE would ever think we would reach a point where Marijuana is on the cusp on being legal, I would not have believed it, yet here we are today, a few days away from recreational pot being legal in handful of states, and others will follow suit.
So, it is clear the publics mind was changed over the years, and I would bet the same thing happens with Heroin and other hard drugs in the next 20 years or so, but in 20 years, I cannot imagine how bad the drug epidemic will be, the demand is sooo great today, the cartels cannot produce the stuff fast enough, just think how bad it will be in 20 years…WOW!! Plus, unlike pot, heroin is a drug that the users MUST do every day, or it results in horrible withdrawls, so the heroin problem is MUCH worse than pot, which does not really cause withdrawls.
Im pretty sure most cops and people in law enforcement recognize they have lost the war on drugs years ago, but I think its hard for them admit publicly they have been beaten by the drug cartels, but when you look at the numbers, this is obvious, cartels have more money than most law enforcement agencies, can purchase better equipment, guns, vehicles, etc. so i imagine its hard for cops to see this and realize there is so much demand in the US, that it simply cannot be stopped, or even slowed down.
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
There is another practical aspect to this that is missed by many:
When a product or commodity is made illegal, its supplier now has a tax-free income source. No marginal income tax rates to worry about, ever. Imagine not paying any taxes on your salary… Hence the rapid accumulation of funds by the drug cartels and their subsequent growth is quite understandable in this context.
Alcohol and nicotine are drugs, no two ways about that. But their legal status allows them to be taxed at the register and allows their suppliers to be regulated and suppliers’ income to be taxed. None of which happened with alcohol during the Prohibition period. The rise of the Mafia in the US dated from this period and is mostly due to the tax-free income they generated during this period. Remember Al Capone didn’t go to prison for anything violent, he went to jail for income tax evasion. But it took them many years and a lot of government resources to get him.
When a product or commodity is made illegal, its supplier now has a tax-free income source. No marginal income tax rates to worry about, ever. Imagine not paying any taxes on your salary… Hence the rapid accumulation of funds by the drug cartels and their subsequent growth is quite understandable in this context.
Alcohol and nicotine are drugs, no two ways about that. But their legal status allows them to be taxed at the register and allows their suppliers to be regulated and suppliers’ income to be taxed. None of which happened with alcohol during the Prohibition period. The rise of the Mafia in the US dated from this period and is mostly due to the tax-free income they generated during this period. Remember Al Capone didn’t go to prison for anything violent, he went to jail for income tax evasion. But it took them many years and a lot of government resources to get him.
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mikekle
Guest
The problem with using this method against the cartels and suppliers of narcotics, is none of them reside in the US and probably never even come here. Also in Mexico and Southeast Asia, Mexico especially, the major suppliers have more power and money than the Govts, so it is impossible to prosecute them for anything.
I hope the US govt and DEA take a good look at what the legalization of pot is going to do to the drug cartels and its effect on general usage among the population, Ive watched a couple news shows and they claim the cartels are going to get out of pot altogether, and focus on heroin, cocaine, meth, etc. How could they compete with legal suppliers? their prices would still be very high, and the consumer is probably going to go with the cheaper alternative.
It is amazing to me that the majority of people have outweighed the DEA regarding pot, they have voted and now, in one day, its going to be legal for recreational use in a few areas, and eventually, will be legal in most areas. What is disturbing, SOME law enforcement agencies still claim it is wrong and should not be happening, but they do not realize their job is NOT to influence public opinion about a particular topic…and really, they should have NO opinion, their only job is to enforce laws, and NOT what they THINK should be legal or illegal.
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Sunbreak
Guest
Legalizing drugs is not the answer. Addicts will still commit horrible crimes to get the drugs they need because many times they are not employable and will do anything they have to do to get the drugs. There will still be an underground for drugs.
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mikekle
Guest
That is true, but legalization WOULD decrease the amount by quite a bit, likely cut it down to less than 25% of what it is currently, thus saving ALOT of lives.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
What is your basis for the +75% drop in drug related crimes?
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TEPO
Guest
…and what is the basis for why people would be less inclined to commit horrible crimes to begin with? They’re still going to have to find money to support their habit regardless of legality.
You’re not suggesting that Obamacare will cover drug abuse are you?
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Hobbes42
Guest
Sources please,
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migueltojose
Guest
Where there is demand, there will be supply. Regardless of legality. Reduce demand through education. People need to choose to behave. We don’t need more prisons or tougher judges. We need better behavior. We need values. Honesty, Responsibility, Respect, Fairness, Compassion.
It is noble (and right) to try to legislate morality but it is mostly a fruitless endeavor. We need stronger familial and social networks to curb inappropriate behavior. Ostracizing social outliers used to be the norm and provide a viable deterrent to bad behavior. Now it’s considered a hate crime. Now we celebrate extreme individuality to the point of perversity and criminality.
It is noble (and right) to try to legislate morality but it is mostly a fruitless endeavor. We need stronger familial and social networks to curb inappropriate behavior. Ostracizing social outliers used to be the norm and provide a viable deterrent to bad behavior. Now it’s considered a hate crime. Now we celebrate extreme individuality to the point of perversity and criminality.
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mikekle
Guest
Well, for one, since it is currently illegal, the drug cartels control the production and distribution, and Im sure you have heard of all the related violence in and around the mexican border, and in Texas. Cartel members will kill anyone that gets in their way, cops, army, federal agents, etc.
Just the cartel related violence would drop the crime rate! as if it was legal, they would no longer control the distribution, as if addicts in the US could just buy the drugs in any stores, then the cartels would be out of business, no money coming in.
Another aspect will be US prisons will be nearly empty if all drugs are legal, and once a person gets a drug conviction on their record, it is very hard to become a good member of society again, because of the difficulty getting jobs, and making enough money to live on, if legal, all these people will not be going to jail, or getting criminal records, continuing their criminal behavior once released, etc.
Drugs are only expensive because of their illegal status, as a product, they are very cheap to produce and distribute,(they all come from easily grown plants, mostly the poppy plant) so if they were legal, the cost of the drug itself would drop considerably, this would also mean people would not have to rob and steal to get them…people dont commit major crimes to get a pack of cigarettes, same would apply to legalized drugs.
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