Referring to an Evangelical Church as Demonic

[imo]

Yes, sure. Words can be grave matter, I just don’t think this was the case. What do you think?

 

[CRV]

I am having some trouble getting it - I can’t just assume everything is grave. I would like to find some explanation about how to distinguish and level the gravity without just going to confession for everything.

The gravity of a matter is objectively judged. It only becomes subjective when full knowledge and full consent come into the equation.

Grave, or serious, or seriously wrong, serious harm. Stating something or in this case a Christian Church by referring to it as demoniacal, would you think that is a seriously bad thing to say about others? Would you consider that to mean “of/caused/from” a demon? Do you think that would be a seriously bad thing to say about another Christian Church.

Only you can answer these questions and I do not think you should answer them here, but just answer them mentally to yourself. And it is a good idea to ask your priest about this in confession because he is best placed to help you form your conscience and can tell you objectively if the matter is grave.

Another suggestion to help you is to get yourself a good examination of conscience - Examination of Conscience by Fr Robert Altier - it is the first link, which opens a pdf file for you to read. Bookmark the page or better yet but a copy from Leaflet Missal company as it is copyrighted. It is only a dollar 25, and in addition to the examination of conscience it has prayers before & after confession + other extras.

ETA - compare saying this about other Christians whether that be the people by implication or saying for example “They’re all fake”. Which do you think is graver? Saying they are fake or saying they are demoniacal?

 

[CRV]

Words can be grave matter, I just don’t think this was the case.

Perhaps ask yourself what did you intend to convey by those words? What did you mean to imply by saying it was demoniacle? What was your motive behind saying that?

 

[Dlee]

This is your second thread referring to evangelical churches as demonic - why?

 

[Tota_Tua1]

Your conscience is troubling you over this; personally, when this happens to me, that’s usually an indicator to bring up the matter with my spiritual director/confessor. I understand your difficulty in getting to ordinary confession sessions, but in my experience, it is possible to make an appointment for “out of hours” confessions.

 

[catholic03]

If you’re particularly scrupulous, then I’d say you can assume it’s venial and if you wish you can bring it up at your next confession as a venial sin. I doubt it’s mortal.

If you are not scrupulous, then it may be worth considering whether it could be mortal. But I doubt it is, because although it may have been grave, you did not have full knowledge or deliberate consent by the sound of it. If you want, then go to confession.

But I think it’s fine to assume this is venial.

 

[catholic03]

Just seen another thread about whether it is okay to call Protestant ecclesial communities demonic. Of course it is not. Undoubtedly, the devil loves division in Christ’s body, and the ‘reformers’ were not approved by God in their actions, but to say that a modern day Protestant Church is demonic is quite blunt and offensive, even though it is undoubtedly NOT God’s work that many Christians aren’t Catholic.

I think that if you have such an issue with Protestants, you should talk to your pastor. This seems to be a problem you have.

 

[imo]

I did the other first and then I realized it too generic and seems that I was trying too justify myself. However, I let it there cause I think it may reach a more historical discussion about how this was treated by Catholic authority along the centuries. This topic is more to assess the gravity of the words. But the situation was the same.

 

[Tolle_Lege]

Say what you will about Evangelicals, but poll after poll demonstrates that they have a better grasp of Christian morality than most Catholics, despite not having access to the sacraments.

 

[imo]

Thank you for your answer. I agree with you. But is not a recurrent problem, it is just two topics assessing the same situation differently: one the gravity of my words and other trying to understand the historical Church position about it.
But I repent saying it, it was too much, uncharitable and not the way I like to express myself.

 

[imo]

It was a joke, but I think it came up from an understanding that these places have converted a lot of catholics. I am from Brazil and here almost everybody used to be catholic and now a lot of pentecostal evangelical churches pop out everytime everywhere, taking more and more people out of the Catholic Church. So it seems that if these churches did not exist these people would be catholic. But minutes after saying that I realize it was too blunt and uncharitable.

 

[CRV]

Not meaning it seriously (therefore part of intent) imo, may lessen the gravit, but then again it may not, because whilst said jokingly there is a part within the person who sincerely thinks that is the case/believes that is true/and did mean it. Only you would know which.

Though within gravity itself there are degrees e.g. theft of a lot of money(grave matter) with the additional detail of harsh violence against a person increases the gravity of the already grave matter further, and in fact would be two grave sins - the theft and the serious physical assault of a person.

it came up from an understanding that these places have converted a lot of catholics.

Still no reason to state that whether jokingly or not, (that they are demonic).

I am from Brazil and here almost everybody used to be catholic and now a lot of pentecostal evangelical churches pop out everytime everywhere, taking more and more people out of the Catholic Church.

That is often times due to various factors/reasons of the individuals leaving the Catholic Church. They’d leave whether it was some other type of Church or these pentecostal ones - or even no church at all.

So it seems that if these churches did not exist these people would be catholic.

You are right - ‘seems’ is the right word. People leave the CC and end up not joining any other church or faith or belief system at all.

But minutes after saying that I realize it was too blunt and uncharitable.

And judgemental. Bad enough if it’d remained in your thoughts - but it didn’t - you actually said it to others, which also changes things.

Whether the matter of what was said is grave matter or not, imo, basically saying other Christian Churches are demonic would in itself be grave matter.

But as in my other posts, I’ve pointed out that if you had full knowledge that it was a mortal sin, then there’d be no reason for you to ask. So as you are asking this in itself shows you lack full knowledge and therefore would change the sin from mortal to venial.

For your peace of conscience, I think you should still ask your priest if that was grave matter or not.

 

[stpurl]

I’m sorry, I can’t really understand your answer here. Are you saying that only the Pope has access to the Holy Spirit? That other Catholics don’t? But protestants do?

Could you clear that up a bit? Thank you.

 

[njlisa]

I’m confused that your statement is both “joking” and “rational.” In any case, I agree that a priest can sort out what’s going on. You might want to make a private appointment. God bless you.

 

[Fauken]

The protestant religions believe in the 5 fold ministry in Ephesians. Apostles. Prophets preacher evangelical teachers. All have the Holy spirit.
Which will lead them in All Truth.

Which is why they all believe in different teachings, ranging from how to worship to how we are saved, right?

 

[imo]

But as in my other posts, I’ve pointed out that if you had full knowledge that it was a mortal sin, then there’d be no reason for you to ask. So as you are asking this in itself shows you lack full knowledge and therefore would change the sin from mortal to venial.

Indeed, I thought it could be wrong, but never imagined it could a mortal sin. By ignorance, it seemed to me like a position of some past documents inside the Catholic Church. Therefore, my other post. But, after researching I realized it was not and it may even be a grave sin of lack of charity or even using a strong concept (demonic) in a loose reckless way.

Nevertheless, I blame myself to be so imprudent with my words. It is something I struggle with and I am trying very hard to improve. And I am improving, really. But it has its “relapses” sometimes.

 

[stpurl]

You can believe in something and yet not possess it. True?

 

[CRV]

By ignorance

Ignorance can diminish the culpability.

As Catholics we are to form our consciences and so if when a question arises about whether something is a sin or not or what the gravity of it is, then we are expected to make enquiries (of our priests who have responsibility of guiding the souls under their care), do research via CC documents ie the catechsim or encyclicals for example (not personal opinions as these may or may not be right).

may even be a grave sin of lack of charity or even using a strong concept (demonic) in a loose reckless way.

I think you’re onto the right way of looking at it.

We are all struggling with various sins. Learning to think before I speak was a lesson I received years ago. Our efforts in co-operation with God’s grace is what is needed. And yes, we all relapse in various ways. It is only those in purgatory and heaven who cannot/do not sin anymore, whilst for us still here on earth it is still possible/likely, nevertheless we are to strive to eliminate all sin - especially Mortal sins, and we should still strive to reduce the number and frequency of venial sins even if we can’t eliminate them altogether.

 

[tommy37]

I think this was a venial sin against charity! Saying something flippantly without much thought is certainly not grave matter. Say a prayer of apology to God, say a few prayers of penance for it and be at peace. If it’s still bothering you mention it in your next confession. Just try to learn from it. Start asking God to help you think before you speak because we can all get in trouble with our tongues. God Bless!