Reflections on International Womens' Day

[Rose71]

I have been wondering whether to post about this for a couple of days!

I’m really disappointed in the way the company I work for has marked International Women’s Day. Personally, I’m not a huge fan of having an IWD in the first place. I’d rather there was an international Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself Day instead - regardless of gender, race, orientation etc.

If our company intranet had featured stories drawing our attention to issues of real and serious injustices towards women around the world today and some stories of women who have achieved great things in science, arts and politics i.e. some inspirational role models, then I’d have been more accepting about it all.

However, in our company, we are extremely short-staffed and faced with huge changes in the way we deliver our work because of the political climate. This is a time of limited resources, where all pulling together, focussing on our goals and working as a team has never been more important. drawing atention specifically to one gender at a time like this is, I feel, not just a waste of time, but also devisive.

It’s not just devisive between men and women either. The women within the company who were chosen for a special IWD feature on the intranet were all working mothers. Now, I have to stress, I have no problem with working mothers in principle and I feel this is a very personal choice that is nobody’s business to comment on. For some it is a choice motivated by financial necessity and for others it is a lifestyle choice - but in every case, it isn’t really anyone else’s concern.

To me, work is a place where I come to get the job done to the best of my ability. One of the strengths about this company is that we come from a variety of backgrounds and have a real mix of politcial, ethical and spritual beliefs, but at work, we’re all here for a common purpose and we work well as a team.

The articles that went up on the Intranet on IWD were all very smug, preachy and self-congratulatory accounts of how women had ‘put themselves first’ and taken promotion opportunities that meant they missed seeing their children develop. One lady wrote, “we were in London at the time. My wage would barely cover childcare, but it was impotrant to me that** I **progressed in my career.” Another gushed “My husband sees the children off to school and when I get home, I see them a couple of hours and then I willingly get my laptop out again when they are in bed, for a couple of hours” All very noble if you are struggling to make ends meet, but this was someone at almost the top of the tree! She’s also someone who colleagues can never get hold of, because her hours are so ‘flexible’ that (like many other working mothers here) she is allowed to contravene the contractual arranagement that working hours are any 8 between 7am and 7pm.

The whole focus of IWD was about women being able to get what they want and not feeling bad about the impact on their family life or their colleagues and I found it all very ‘Thought Police’.

There are some wonderful and dedicated women in this company who really have chosen, either by real choice, or lack of opportunity / confidence / who knows? to devote their lives to their careers. They are always available and have never demanded more flexibility or concessions. There are women (and men) who desperately want to become parents, but for whatever reason, can’t. There are also many women who have chosen to take a hit in income but go part-time, or decline promotion opportunities because they want to maintain a balanced work and home life. There are women who are grateful for flexible working arrangements because they are looking after infirm of elderly parents…

It just drives me mad that the ladies selected to represent all that is ‘brilliant’ about modern womanhood are the ones who present their stories as ‘look how well I am doing! Look how I get what I want!’ and not the ones who truly demonstrate kindness, compassion and courage in the workplace - regardless of their marital status, orientation, ability to conceive or anything else.

Interestingly, none of the ‘role model’ women were single mothers. All had working spouses and were in positions within the organisation that afforded them very good sallaries.

 

[JurisPrudens]

I have been wondering whether to post about this for a couple of days!

I’m really disappointed in the way the company I work for has marked International Women’s Day. Personally, I’m not a huge fan of having an IWD in the first place. I’d rather there was an international Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself Day instead - regardless of gender, race, orientation etc.

If our company intranet had featured stories drawing our attention to issues of real and serious injustices towards women around the world today and some stories of women who have achieved great things in science, arts and politics i.e. some inspirational role models, then I’d have been more accepting about it all.

However, in our company, we are extremely short-staffed and faced with huge changes in the way we deliver our work because of the political climate. This is a time of limited resources, where all pulling together, focussing on our goals and working as a team has never been more important. drawing atention specifically to one gender at a time like this is, I feel, not just a waste of time, but also devisive.

It’s not just devisive between men and women either. The women within the company who were chosen for a special IWD feature on the intranet were all working mothers. Now, I have to stress, I have no problem with working mothers in principle and I feel this is a very personal choice that is nobody’s business to comment on. For some it is a choice motivated by financial necessity and for others it is a lifestyle choice - but in every case, it isn’t really anyone else’s concern.

To me, work is a place where I come to get the job done to the best of my ability. One of the strengths about this company is that we come from a variety of backgrounds and have a real mix of politcial, ethical and spritual beliefs, but at work, we’re all here for a common purpose and we work well as a team.

The articles that went up on the Intranet on IWD were all very smug, preachy and self-congratulatory accounts of how women had ‘put themselves first’ and taken promotion opportunities that meant they missed seeing their children develop. One lady wrote, “we were in London at the time. My wage would barely cover childcare, but it was impotrant to me that I progressed in my career.” Another gushed “My husband sees the children off to school and when I get home, I see them a couple of hours and then I willingly get my laptop out again when they are in bed, for a couple of hours” All very noble if you are struggling to make ends meet, but this was someone at almost the top of the tree! She’s also someone who colleagues can never get hold of, because her hours are so ‘flexible’ that (like many other working mothers here) she is allowed to contravene the contractual arranagement that working hours are any 8 between 7am and 7pm.

The whole focus of IWD was about women being able to get what they want and not feeling bad about the impact on their family life or their colleagues and I found it all very ‘Thought Police’.

There are some wonderful and dedicated women in this company who really have chosen, either by real choice, or lack of opportunity / confidence / who knows? to devote their lives to their careers. They are always available and have never demanded more flexibility or concessions. There are women (and men) who desperately want to become parents, but for whatever reason, can’t. There are also many women who have chosen to take a hit in income but go part-time, or decline promotion opportunities because they want to maintain a balanced work and home life. There are women who are grateful for flexible working arrangements because they are looking after infirm of elderly parents…

It just drives me mad that the ladies selected to represent all that is ‘brilliant’ about modern womanhood are the ones who present their stories as ‘look how well I am doing! Look how I get what I want!’ and not the ones who truly demonstrate kindness, compassion and courage in the workplace - regardless of their marital status, orientation, ability to conceive or anything else.

Interestingly, none of the ‘role model’ women were single mothers. All had working spouses and were in positions within the organisation that afforded them very good sallaries.

What’s Your country?

I’m from the former Eastern Block, where the IWD, on the one hand, has always been a “big deal”, but, on the other hand, has long ago evolved into a very apolitical holiday. It’s a cheesy day when men celebrate women, give them presents, when flower prices jump up a couple of weeks in advance
:flowers::flowers::flowers:
:curtsey::curtsey::curtsey:
To a westerner, our IWD would seem like an extremely “sexist” celebration, I guess.

 

[SusanneT]

What’s Your country?

I’m from the former Eastern Block, where the IWD, on the one hand, has always been a “big deal”, but, on the other hand, has long ago evolved into a very apolitical holiday. It’s a cheesy day when men celebrate women, give them presents, when flower prices jump up a couple of weeks in advance
:flowers::flowers::flowers:
:curtsey::curtsey::curtsey:
To a westerner, our IWD would seem like an extremely “sexist” celebration, I guess.

My problem with IWD is that as always it takes a feminist perspective which celebrates women for achievements in business, science and politics - thereby implicitly anc even explicitly ignoring and undervaluing women who are wives and mothers and who’s vocation is at home.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Rose71, thanks for posting. I agree that IWD doesn’t really serve much of a purpose. Personally, I think we have too many national/international days of recognition, period. The Church has feast days for Christ, the Blessed Mother and the saints. I guess this is what a secular society does to try to fill the void left when you are no longer allowed to celebrate anything connected with God. You’re also right about which feminine success stories they decide to celebrate. I think it’s important to remember that all this hubbub about IWD is part of a sociopolitical agenda. They don’t really care about real hardships or about women overcoming those hardships. Anita Sarkesian will go on ad nauseam about how women are exploited and objectified in video games while real women are treated like property in some parts of the world. This makes no sense if one believes that progressive, third wave feminism is an altruistic movement with true gender equality as its goal. The thing is that the real goal is female supremacy that promotes a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-to kind of attitude among women. That’s why the stories that your company was circulating were about career women with working spouses. Their careers give them an excuse to abdicate whatever familial responsibilities they don’t want to deal with, while their husbands’ incomes allow them the security to make their own work schedules. Best of both worlds, right?

SusanneT, your observation is correct! While some of the early feminists probably had very good intentions, the biggest effect the movement has had on western society has been the near total undermining of the traditional family. I would go so far as to say that putting an end to traditional families is one of feminism’s prime objectives at this point. One of the ways this goal is accomplished is by ignoring or belittling motherhood. If a woman wants to be a stay at home mother and make a good home for her husband and children then she is an accomplice, whether unwitting or otherwise, in the grand scheme of an oppressive patriarchy determined to keep women enslaved to the whims of their male counterparts.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I had not even heard of this special day until now.
I am battling with my daughter-in-law who gave birth to her second child a little over a year ago and stayed home for 2 1/2 months and then seemed to “abandon” the family to return to her job. I feel like I have had to take over many responsibilities. The children suffer when the mother devotes so much time to her job. It is hard to learn to do both. My daughterinlaw travels and some weeks her job takes her out of state 2-4 days a week. She flies to a different city every morning to her office. I get the oldest child off to school everyday and take care of the baby. She doesn’t seem to mind she is missing out on so much. I get very sad.

 

[Kelfa28]

SusanneT, your observation is correct! While some of the early feminists probably had very good intentions, the biggest effect the movement has had on western society has been the near total undermining of the traditional family. I would go so far as to say that putting an end to traditional families is one of feminism’s prime objectives at this point. One of the ways this goal is accomplished is by ignoring or belittling motherhood. If a woman wants to be a stay at home mother and make a good home for her husband and children then she is an accomplice, whether unwitting or otherwise, in the grand scheme of an oppressive patriarchy determined to keep women enslaved to the whims of their male counterparts.

So, my home isn’t “traditional” because I choose to finish my BS and have a career despite being a wife and mother?

So what is a “traditional” family? June Cleaver and that manufactured idea from the 50s and 60s?

My mother, both grandmothers, both great-grandmothers and all of my aunts and cousins…plus all of my in-laws going back several generations have had working women.

Why is it so necessary to point out something that never actually existed in the first place?

It’s an ideal we have in our heads that just isn’t achievable for everyone.

A stay-at-home-mother isn’t ideal or traditional. It’s just a choice some women make…and it can be a very holy decision to make.

I’m confused as to why SAHMs are considered traditional or idea when women have always worked, all over the world, from the dawn of time.

 

[Kelfa28]

I had not even heard of this special day until now.
I am battling with my daughter-in-law who gave birth to her second child a little over a year ago and stayed home for 2 1/2 months and then seemed to “abandon” the family to return to her job. I feel like I have had to take over many responsibilities. The children suffer when the mother devotes so much time to her job. It is hard to learn to do both. My daughterinlaw travels and some weeks her job takes her out of state 2-4 days a week. She flies to a different city every morning to her office. I get the oldest child off to school everyday and take care of the baby. She doesn’t seem to mind she is missing out on so much. I get very sad.

Then talk to her about it.

Seriously, it’s not that hard to just mention it…especially if you think she is abandoning her family and doesn’t “mind” missing them.

Ask her how she is feeling about it. Maybe she does miss them.

I miss my kids but I know finishing my degree and getting a career is something I need to do for my husband and for them.

I want to provide too and I put them into school and daycare to make that happen…I miss them but I know I’m doing the right thing.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Then talk to her about it.

Seriously, it’s not that hard to just mention it…especially if you think she is abandoning her family and doesn’t “mind” missing them.

Ask her how she is feeling about it. Maybe she does miss them.

I miss my kids but I know finishing my degree and getting a career is something I need to do for my husband and for them.

I want to provide too and I put them into school and daycare to make that happen…I miss them but I know I’m doing the right thing.

I have spoke to her about it many times. She assures me her kids are fine and she doesn’t understand my thinking. I see her as pushing her responsibilities on to someone else.

 

[womanatwell]

Rose 71, you do a good job of distinguishing the different types of mindsets in different women. So many persons, including both Christians and feminists, look at women in terms of black and white. There are a variety of situations such as in your company.

There are still growing pains in our world from the effect of women being able to attain education like never before. Even in the 1950’s, women were supposed to be either stay-at-home mothers, secretaries or teachers. Now they can be anything, but there are still family demands if she chooses to marry and have children.

I don’t think we have gotten to the bottom of these changes and especially what it means for Catholic women and the Church in relation to women. There are a lot of opinions out there, but my own is that young women need to learn how to discern God’s calling for them. I think God is calling many women in a different way now because of that education, but we should still focus on Him. In other words, God could call a woman to glorify Him in the role of a wife and mother, or He could call on women to glorify Him in a role such as working at a job and trying to be Christian toward others. Or, for that matter there could be a balance between the two but it must be in a wise (not prideful or greedy) manner.

We all need to try to discern, helping each other along the way.
:hug3:

 

[on_the_hill]

Frankly, if it weren’t for the Google Doodle, I wouldn’t have known it was IWD.

Black History Month seems to have slipped past without much mention, either.

I think St. Patrick’s Day is coming up. Anyone know when, exactly?

 

[Kelfa28]

I have spoke to her about it many times. She assures me her kids are fine and she doesn’t understand my thinking. I see her as pushing her responsibilities on to someone else.

If it bothers you so much…then put limits on how much you watch them.

My mother did that with my sister. My sister hired an in-home babysitter instead.

Some women have to work. They bring in an income that provides. I think that making assumptions on how a mother feels about working and how it may effect her children is really unfair because it hints that we are wrong in our thinking and that we should all be at home the second we get married and pop out the first kid.

I tried it and hated every second of it. I wasn’t a good mother when I was at home with the kids all day.

I felt useless, depressed and degraded. I honestly thought I was worth absolutely nothing and our whole family suffered.

I’m so much happier and healthier working and finishing my degree. Yes, my kids are in school and in daycare (oh, the horror!!!). But I have the energy and desire to play with them, hang out and take care of them each night and every weekend. I love this lifestyle and it makes me a much, much better mother as a result.

I feel like I’m being useful, accomplishing something and justifying my existence. I truly believe my children will benefit from a happy and playful mother who sees them less then the depressed and unhappy one they saw all the time.

 

[PhiloMed]

I have spoke to her about it many times. She assures me her kids are fine and she doesn’t understand my thinking. I see her as pushing her responsibilities on to someone else.

Then stop taking care of the kids.

Honestly.

If rather pay a nanny than have a judgmental mother in law watching my kids during the day.

As strange and unnatural as her choices seem to you, your version of motherhood may feel just as unnatural to her. I know it would to me. I’m having my third baby in a few weeks and 2 1/2 months off seems like an eternity to me. Not everyone does motherhood the same way.

 

[JurisPrudens]

Frankly, if it weren’t for the Google Doodle, I wouldn’t have known it was IWD.

Black History Month seems to have slipped past without much mention, either.

I think St. Patrick’s Day is coming up. Anyone know when, exactly?

March, 17. And I’m going to the local St. Patrick’s Church.

 

[JurisPrudens]

My problem with IWD is that as always it takes a feminist perspective which celebrates women for achievements in business, science and politics - thereby implicitly anc even explicitly ignoring and undervaluing women who are wives and mothers and who’s vocation is at home.

Sounds like a complete opposite to my country.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

My problem with IWD is that as always it takes a feminist perspective which celebrates women for achievements in business, science and politics - thereby implicitly anc even explicitly ignoring and undervaluing women who are wives and mothers and who’s vocation is at home.

So celebrating women who work undervalues those who don’t?

Personally, I’ll never respect being a SAHM the way I respect women who work. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the choice, and who knows, it may be one I make in the future. But being a mom is the result of biology, having a career is the result of hard work, education, and competency. Pretending that being a SAHM is “just as hard” as working is an insult to the many great moms who do both, and it’s an insult to the husbands and fathers who shoulder a very heavy responsibility to allow their wives to stay home.

 

[QuestLove]

I do not really have a problem with IWD. I understand that maybe in first world countries it may not be as necessary as in other places.
Although I live in a developing nation, the plight of women is not as bad here as it is in other parts of the world. It is celebrated a little differently where I am (we do not get emails at work etc. like the OP) but there ads over the airwaves, seminars etc.
I think perspective is key. If you live in a country where IWD is not a big deal or unnecessary, that can be an indication that it’s a good place to live as a woman.

 

[Kelfa28]

So celebrating women who work undervalues those who don’t?

Personally, I’ll never respect being a SAHM the way I respect women who work. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the choice, and who knows, it may be one I make in the future. But being a mom is the result of biology, having a career is the result of hard work, education, and competency. Pretending that being a SAHM is “just as hard” as working is an insult to the many great moms who do both, and it’s an insult to the husbands and fathers who shoulder a very heavy responsibility to allow their wives to stay home.

Well said.

I know several women who want nothing more then to stay at home and homeschool.

Believe-it-or-not I admire them for it. They all have wonderful husbands who work crazy hard to make that happen.

But I also know several wonderful mothers who always did both. My grandmothers, my mother, my sister and some very close friends.

My maternal grandmother was deeply devoted to Catholicism. She was a convert from being a Jehovah’s Witness back in the 50s and she married a wonderful Catholic man.

She always worked. She was a seamstress and made wedding dresses and then picked up a job working as an aid for a school that educated children who were mentally disabled. She loved that job and stayed there well into her sixties.

All of her sisters were SAHMs…but she decided not to.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

So celebrating women who work undervalues those who don’t?

Personally, I’ll never respect being a SAHM the way I respect women who work. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the choice, and who knows, it may be one I make in the future. But being a mom is the result of biology, having a career is the result of hard work, education, and competency. Pretending that being a SAHM is “just as hard” as working is an insult to the many great moms who do both, and it’s an insult to the husbands and fathers who shoulder a very heavy responsibility to allow their wives to stay home.

I thought it was International Woman’s Day, not International Working/ Professional Woman’s Day.

Ironic we need to pin working against stay at home moms.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I thought it was International Woman’s Day, not International Working/ Professional Woman’s Day.

Ironic we need to pin working against stay at home moms.

I made no judgements on staying at home. I’m not pitting anyone against anyone else. But I can’t respect someone who does X the same way I respect someone who does X and Y when Y involves skills, knowledge, and energy that X doesn’t.

Let’s not patronize working women and men who support their families with the whole “being a SAHM is the hardest job in the world” thing, because while it can be busy, stressful, lonely, and maddening, it just doesn’t quite compare to being completely beholden to an outside person or company for your family’s survival.

Men used to pride themselves on not sending women out to work because they knew that it was harder and much less fun than staying home. Let’s not pretend that the workplace has all at once become party central. It still sucks.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I made no judgements on staying at home. I’m not pitting anyone against anyone else. But I can’t respect someone who does X the same way I respect someone who does X and Y when Y involves skills, knowledge, and energy that X doesn’t.

Let’s not patronize working women and men who support their families with the whole “being a SAHM is the hardest job in the world” thing, because while it can be busy, stressful, lonely, and maddening, it just doesn’t quite compare to being completely beholden to an outside person or company for your family’s survival.

Okay. Valid point. My response is this. If a person is doing both X and Y because they have to, then they deserve some respect for the sacrifices that they make. If a person is doing X and Y simply because they want to, they do not deserve the same kind of respect. Doing two jobs is hard, and it is usually difficult to do both well, even if the person wants to. My mother grew up in a very poor household and it was necessary for my grandmother to work outside the home as well as inside it to help support the feeding and education costs of five children. Even though my mother recognizes that it was necessary for my grandmother to work, she has admitted that they would have had a happier household if my Abuela could have been a full-time homemaker.

The women that the OP was talking about (and I know the type as I’ve known plenty myself) congratulate themselves on being the ideal post-modern career moms. All they’ve done is demonstrate that they know how to game the system. They’ve married well enough that they can enjoy the fruits of their labor without unemployment being a real concern since they have hubby’s income to fall back on if necessary. Most of the responsibilities of raising and educating the kids are abdicated in favor of letting the state do it in their public schools. Thus these women enjoy a lifestyle with great opportunities and very little pressure. The kicker is that they want to be congratulated too! And places like the OP’s company are more than happy to oblige.