If it were up to me, I’d absolutely agree. However, you and I both know that this won’t happen in a million years. So we are unfortunately going to have to accept that Vatican II happened and we are going to feel its effects for millennium to come. As of 1969, a Latin Rite which uses solely Latin is intangible.
Actually ALL official documents from the Vatican are written in Latin. So, Latin is the official language of the church. With SP, you will see MILLIONS of catholics using latin in liturgy EVERY Sunday. As the aging 60’s hippies die off, the younger generation (under 35) will hopefully see the “New Mass” slowly die off and the Tridentine rite slowly take over as the “Ordinary” form. At least that is what I am praying for.
The Kyrie Eleison in the Roman missal is evidence, in its own way, that the earliest liturgies were said in Greek. The New Testament was written in Koine Greek, and for the most part, the Greek Septuagint was the Old Testament text used by the New Testament writers. The earliest councils of the church and statements of church beliefs were in Greek. So why did the Western church switch from Greek to Latin? Easy. Because that was the lingua franca of the Western church. At one point, Latin was the vernacular, displacing the original Greek.
I go to an EF High Mass every week. It should be kept. There is also a EF Low Mass which, I believe, we celebrate in the mornings weekdays.
No I would not. The main reason being is that vernacular liturgies balcanize the Mass around native speakers and their language. When was the last time you saw English speakers at a Spanish Mass (unless they missed the English Mass).
While I am uncertain as to the accuracy of your historical statements, they sound plausible to me, so I’ll go with that. The reason to keep the Latin now is not the same as changing it from Greek to Latin was. Today, we need a dead language. You see with the OF and the “spirit” of Vatican II what can happen when the vernacular is used. Using Latin only in the liturgy is one of a number of steps (and the most important one) which can and should be used to protect and guard the faith, as is the charge of Holy Mother Church. Out would go all personal and varied interpretations, abuses, etc.
I"ve been thinking the OF should be reserved for Saturdays. It could be positioned as an Introduction to the Mass. Sundays should be reserved for the EF in low and high form.
Interesting concept.
I say Novus Ordo liturgy is in line of a book of:
It would appear that you are in an SSPX seminary.
I disagree… yes the Eastern liturgy is beautiful but so is the Western liturgy, like the EF. I love how it’s so centered on the Eucharist.
The last actual time was last Thanksgiving; the location was the parish in Orem, Utah. The majority of people there were Hispanic, but there were a significant number of “Anglos”. Your experince is a bit narrow.
That is complete and absolute bull. You are both ignorant of history and ignorant of how greatly people appreciated the change from Latin to the vernacular.
Actually, is available to only extremely small minority of people world wide. They have not learned it, and by learning it I mean leanrning it as a spoken language - which pre Vatican 2 was not quite but almost undheard of; or learning it as a translated language, which from personal experience meant at a bare minimum 4 years of high school Latin or 2 years of college, to be sufficient to be able to generally keep up with the priest, which again only a small minority had. If you mean being able to parrott a Latin phrase, that is not “learning Latin”.
If you mean the average man on the street, that included slaves; for those who were educated that is poppycock. An average student in high school Latin will study Caesar and Cicero within two years; the difference between the Latin used in Church by the third and fourth centuries was not anywhere near that removed from those who spoke it.
Which ignores the increas of readings from the Old and New Testament. It was not for no reason that the bishops of the world - not just the US and Europe, but the world - felt that the EF needed some changes, among which were a greater use of Scripture and use of the vernacular. We can all agree that the OF was not what they were requesting. But neither is the EF in its current form what they were requesting.
According to Mass Times Trust, about one in every 250 parishes for which listings are available regularly offer the Mass in Latin; this is in 117,000 parishes worldwide in mnore than 200 countries. Which works out to about four tenths of one percent worldwide. Most of the problems that are complained about in these threads pertain to the US, Canada and Europe; but they are not the sum total of the Western rite. Granted that in some areas of the Western world there are bishops who have been less than active about making the EF available, there is no basis to presume that this phenomenon is world wide. And the issues of translation are predominently problems of the English speaking world.
There are a hugh number of people 50 and above who are not hippies - in fact, the vast majority. and the “under 35 crowd” has some interesting statistics - 80% of them don’t attend Church on a regular basis. And I know of no study anywhere that even hints that the fallout in attendance has anything to do with issues of the EF vs. OF.