Refusing the Cup

[Sir_Knight]

“Lesser of two evils” is just an expression.

Maybe you should have recognized that earlier when you called took my words to literally.

Yeah. The priests should get off their arses and do it themselves.

Are you implying that most priest don’t put in a full day?

I don’t know what kind of priests you have experience with but during the past 15 years I’ve been exposed to priests from three different parishes in three different states and I’ve observed them on the go from the time that they say early morning mass until late into the evening. This leads me to believe that that is the norm rather than the exception.

When you put in a 14-18 hour day 6-7 days a week, then you can begin finding fault with our priests – many, of whom, are greatly overworked but continue in the service of our Lord without complaint despite the being unjustly critized [sp] by those whom they are trying to serve.

If it becomes absolutely necessary (as in, the only option), then fine. That’swhy they’re called extraordinary ministers. However, they’re almost universally abused.

That is your OPINION. In almost all cases EMHCs are ASKED to serve by their priests. If they are asked to function in this role, then the priest clearly does not think that they are being “abused”, as you put it.

Or are you implying that your OPINION in this matter is more qualified than that of a priest who has actual experience and training in these matters?

When I’m old and dying, I’ll be a priest, so I don’t really have to worry about EMHCs haunting me.

So you are saying that you are willing to address something that you see as a problem when it affects YOU but are not willing to address it when it doesn’t affect you? Please forgive me if I understand your comments incorrectly but that doesn’t sound very charitable of you (to only care about a “problem” when it affects only you) and seems to demonstarate the opposite behavior of what followers of Christ are called to.

 

[PaulAndrew83]

Or are you implying that your OPINION in this matter is more qualified than that of a priest who has actual experience and training in these matters?

What do you do in the following situations.

1. Priest tells the parish in a sermon on a Saturdays. Jesus changed his mind and his way of thinking after the event of the caananite woman. This is at the 6pm mass.

A different Priest says the same thing at a different parish church but quite close at a mass the very next day on a sunday.

1. Both the above Priests leave the altar to go around shaking hands with everyone. They also omit the ablution of the fingers.
2. One of them made a remark that we will be soon getting woman priests one day as well.
3. In another parish the Priest stood aside and held the chalice at the side of the church while two EMHC held the Host’s.

This is only where I live now.

In my previous parish all the above abuses happened. And the one before that.

In fact I have moved around this country a LOT and I will say that the only orthodox Priests I knew were FSSP and the London Oratory and a very old jesuit whom I met twice.

Luckily eneogh I have found a Holy Priest where I live, poor Old Priest even has the hair on his chest to ask for prayers for the dead at funerals in at least 3 of them that I have been to during the week.

Sometimes today lay people sadly are better equipped than their Priests to judge.

Paul

 

[FrDavid96]

Originally Posted by FrDavid96
Catholic tradition also allows for a divorce individual to remarry and receive the sacraments if they live like brother & sister with their second spouse.

When/where did I say that?

If I did, it was a huge mistake. That’s not at all the case. If those were my words, something went very very wrong. I have no recollection of posting that, and I would not have posted that. I’m very concerned.

I’d realy like to know where that came from so I can go back and add a retraction.

 

[happymommy]

Sometimes today lay people sadly are better equipped than their Priests to judge.

Paul

God is the only one “equipped” to judge.

 

[PaulAndrew83]

SirKnight:

Catholic tradition also allows for a divorce individual to remarry and receive the sacraments if they live like brother & sister with their second spouse. Why would it be any different for two unmarried individuals if they were living as brother & sister?

This was NOT SAID by Father David. I made a mistake in quotes.

Paul

 

[jmcrae]

And if that results in not being able to fit in all of the masses, then what?

Do whatever it takes to encourage the boys and young men of the parish to consider the priesthood. Within eight years, the problem would be solved - the right way. There would be two priests for every Mass.

They could also go back to having the Altar rail - it’s way quicker than the stand up, line up, method of distribution.

 

[Sir_Knight]

What do you do in the following situations.

1. Priest tells the parish in a sermon on a Saturdays. Jesus changed his mind and his way of thinking after the event of the caananite woman. This is at the 6pm mass.

A different Priest says the same thing at a different parish church but quite close at a mass the very next day on a sunday.

1. Both the above Priests leave the altar to go around shaking hands with everyone. They also omit the ablution of the fingers.
2. One of them made a remark that we will be soon getting woman priests one day as well.
3. In another parish the Priest stood aside and held the chalice at the side of the church while two EMHC held the Host’s.

This is only where I live now.

In my previous parish all the above abuses happened. And the one before that.

In fact I have moved around this country a LOT and I will say that the only orthodox Priests I knew were FSSP and the London Oratory and a very old jesuit whom I met twice.

Luckily eneogh I have found a Holy Priest where I live, poor Old Priest even has the hair on his chest to ask for prayers for the dead at funerals in at least 3 of them that I have been to during the week.

Sometimes today lay people sadly are better equipped than their Priests to judge.

Paul

When a priest goes against official church teaching on a matter, then that needs to be brought to his attention but when the church leaves it to the priest’s discretion, then it is HIS opinion that counts more than that of those sitting in the pews – the shepard does not answer to the sheep.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Do whatever it takes to encourage the boys and young men of the parish to consider the priesthood. Within eight years, the problem would be solved - the right way. There would be two priests for every Mass.

When young men constantly see how priests are view …
*

Sometimes today lay people sadly are better equipped than their Priests to judge.

… what encouragement do they have? And what happens in the mean time?

 

[jmcrae]

When young men constantly see how priests are view …
*
… what encouragement do they have?

That’s a good point - we really need to promote respect for our priests.

And what happens in the mean time?

Assign only those boys and men who are in Junior Seminary or actual Seminary to be EMHCs.

 

[JPUSC]

Assign only those boys and men who are in Junior Seminary or actual Seminary to be EMHCs.

That’s a good idea.

But…in my fairly liberal diocese, there are very few seminarians. Among the seminarians, most are originally from outside of the U.S. Very few locals want to be priests and I’m not surprised since I haven’t seen much of a strong Catholic culture here. Most parishes seem no different from the local Protestant church.

The diocese uses priests from the local abbey, run by a conservative order of priests, to fill in at the other parishes since they are overflowing with vocations.

If the U.S. Church were more traditional and orthodox, we would have more priests and seminarians and no need for EMHCs. Instead, we have to rely on priests from other nations to be brought into the U.S., which is slowly becoming a “missionary” country.

 

[Sir_Knight]

That’s a good point - we really need to promote respect for our priests.

See my signature … http://kofc10921.org/image/ISWOP4.GIF … we need to support our priests in word and deed and give them the benefit of the doubt whenever possible INCLUDING accepting their decision when to use EMHCs.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well, I’ve read through the entire thread, and of course, EMHC’s should not be making these decisions on their own.

That being said, what is the goal of Christians? Are we to spread the good news of Jesus Christ?

To the OP, it may be your actions have driven this couple away from the Church. Maybe it would be a good idea, if possible, to apologize to the couple and explain that you were misinformed and stepped out of bounds for an EMHC. Be compassionate and humble.

Perhaps if this couple is actually living in sin, they will reform themselves and come into the Church, especially after witnessing your compassion and humility.

Wouldn’t that be the best end result to this entire episode?

Jim

 

[Jean_Anthony]

This thread has gone way off topic. It’s not about whether or not the Church should allow/have EMHC. Please take that over-discussed topic to an existing thread. Thank you all.

 

[JulianN]

Well, I’ve read through the entire thread, and of course, EMHC’s should not be making these decisions on their own.

That being said, what is the goal of Christians? Are we to spread the good news of Jesus Christ?

To the OP, it may be your actions have driven this couple away from the Church. Maybe it would be a good idea, if possible, to apologize to the couple and explain that you were misinformed and stepped out of bounds for an EMHC. Be compassionate and humble.

Perhaps if this couple is actually living in sin, they will reform themselves and come into the Church, especially after witnessing your compassion and humility.

Wouldn’t that be the best end result to this entire episode?

Jim

Also, it would probably be good if the OP would tell his students, who were apparently watching this incident closely, that he was out of bounds and made a mistake. here.