Refusing to Believe Homosexual Acts Are Wrong

[livingwordunity]

Homosexuality was not addressed by Paul

If homosexual acts aren’t condemned in the Bible why would “gay” activists have to come up with their own Bible that omits all those parts that you say aren’t about homosexual behavior?

I’m still waiting for an answer to this question.

 

[crazzeto]

If homosexual acts aren’t condemned in the Bible why would “gay” activists have to come up with their own Bible that omits all those parts that you say aren’t about homosexual behavior?

 

[CopticChristian]

The Holy Roman Catholic Church teaches that homosexual people are just as valuable, important, loved and cared about as anyone else. The Church SPECIFICALLY states that homosexuals are to be treated with respect and kindness, His Holiness Pope Francis has stated as much, I believe?

It has been my experience that people RARELY address just the ACT and not include the person in their derision and condemnation.

I would respectfully remind everyone to consider how they would feel if they were told that their sexuality was abhorrent, vile, sinful and how they might react to such a proclamation.

Are we as determined and resolute to condemn and regulate heterosexual fornication, fellatio, anal sex, other than casual mention and verbal reproach? Does such reproach even enter into the same Universe that is employed to attack homosexual conduct? Is sin not sin?

Texas,

For some reason, people, as a practical matter FAIL to separate homosexual acts from homosexual persons, they are not the same thing.

You seem to be wanting to address something that I don’t see in the previous postings. If you exclude my posts, looking back at 3 different posts in this thread by Catholics I see this…

I think your friend may have miss understood where alot of people are coming from, we are discussing the morality of **homosexual intercourse **and why we shouldn’t encourage homosexuals to act on their desires that they suffer from, as we all suffer from immoral or disordered desires homosexuals and heterosexuals that we must try and control and not support.

**Homosexuals acting on their disordered desires **will not provide them with the satisfaction that they are after, it will instead lead them down a destructive path away from Christ in which will ultimately leave them in despair, as a slave to their desires, desires that soul purpose is to self serve, and yet people are encouraging this with same sex marriage and calling it love and compassion, please open your eyes to what you are supporting.

**If homosexual acts aren’t condemned **in the Bible why would “gay” activists have to come up with their own Bible that omits all those parts that you say aren’t about homosexual behavior?

I don’t see anyone addressing anything but acts and this is what you say is not being seen…should you rethink this?

 

[cwltexas]

Texas,

You seem to be wanting to address something that I don’t see in the previous postings. If you exclude my posts, looking back at 3 different posts in this thread by Catholics I see this…

I don’t see anyone addressing anything but acts and this is what you say is not being seen…should you rethink this?

I was making an overall, general statement and not limiting it strictly to the responses on this forum and venue, but to society in general and many in the RCC itself, to be candid.

 

[CopticChristian]

I was making an overall, general statement and not limiting it strictly to the responses on this forum and venue, but to society in general and many in the RCC itself, to be candid.

Texas,

No one reads your mind. This thread specifically says…refusing to believe that Homosexual acts are wrong…

Your statement on this thread is taken in context.

It is true as I suspected that you want to discuss a larger topic…then what you should do is start a thread…

Thoughts on Homosexuality, the person, the Act…

For some reason, people, as a practical matter FAIL to separate homosexual acts from homosexual persons, they are not the same thing.

This is a good starting sentence and then use all the other stuff…and end with

I am a SSA male, I see that discussions go this way or that, I love the Church, I need the Church, I found my way back to the Church and I ask that discussions be understanding of my situation…

see what you get…

ps stop smoking…

 

[Publisher]

I’m still waiting for an answer to this question.

I have no idea how to answer such a question with a definitive answer as to why others do what they do.

Perhaps you could enlighen us after you do some research on the subject?

 

[CopticChristian]

I have no idea how to answer such a question as to why others do what they do.

I find this difficult to accept. You have failed to answer my questions as well…

I see on the Florist thread you discuss why Catholics do what they do, why the Florist should not have done what they did and other parameters that you interject causative inference.

 

[cwltexas]

Texas,

No one reads your mind. This thread specifically says…refusing to believe that Homosexual acts are wrong…

Your statement on this thread is taken in context.

It is true as I suspected that you want to discuss a larger topic…then what you should do is start a thread…

Thoughts on Homosexuality, the person, the Act…

For some reason, people, as a practical matter FAIL to separate homosexual acts from homosexual persons, they are not the same thing.

This is a good starting sentence and then use all the other stuff…and end with

see what you get…

ps stop smoking…

That is probably a very good idea!

I am trying to get motivated to stop smoking, I have reduced, it is so hard.

 

[CopticChristian]

That is probably a very good idea!

I am trying to get motivated to stop smoking, I have reduced, it is so hard.

Unrelated…

The only way to stop any behavior is to do a few things…

Find a reason…keep asking “why do I want to be smoke free”…then when you find that reason work on that motivation…motivation will cause change…

then

ask what is it I am moving away from and moving towards…as you do that recall times when you were able to do just that…

then

formulate a plan, look at the success and keep working on it… so that

you reformulate your motivation, look at what you are moving away from and then moving towards and evaluating success and failure…

A good reason to stop is that you are of less benefit to your partner while smoking than when you are smoke free…if you truly care about your partner…do you care enough to bring health by example…?

 

[marymary1975]

Homosexuality was not addressed by Paul…the religous practices taking place in the pagan temples was however.

I haven’t read this whole thread but I saw this and wanted to answer. You are reaching this conclusion on a sentence by sentence interpretation of the Bible. That is a wrong interpretation of the Bible. That is how evangelicals and protestants interpret the Bible but under catholic doctrine you can’t interpret the Bible solely on one sentence or paragraph, the Bible is interpreted in its full context together with tradition. The Greek word used by Paul is arsenokoitai which literally means men coitus. If you read Paul in its entirety you are going to notice that he is using the word in the context of Porneia- which means sexual immoral acts, Paul does expand quite good throughout all his letters what entails porneia which in a nutshell is any sexual act outside a marriage between a man or a woman. If you tie that with traditional Judaism and Jesus’ words you can be pretty sure that what Paul is talking is homosexual acts. Also, what you point regarding pagan temples which was pretty much male prostitutes is address by Paul with a complete different word: malakoi, so that OS not what he is talking about he is talking about homosexual acts.

 

[josh987654321]

That is probably a very good idea!

I am trying to get motivated to stop smoking, I have reduced, it is so hard.

Sorry, this is a little off topic, however I really want to share this with you.

A good point in Dr. Phil’s book, is that “If you want different, you have to do different” you have to identify the payoffs you recieve from smoking, then you can change them by changing the payoff’s or removing the payoff’s.

It’s like those who say “Im going on a diet” yet fill their cupboard up with unhealthy food, it isn’t going to work, you can’t rely on will power when it comes to these things, you need to set your environment up so that it pulls for your success to quit smoking.

If you always had a smoke at a certain pub after work, than go to a different pub, you need to change your environment so that it pulls for your success, so that especially when you don’t have the will power to quit smoking, you have set your environment up so that the payoff of not smoking out ways the payoff of smoking.

For example when you really want a smoke, yet you have no cigarette’s, the inconvieniance of driving all the way into town to buy a packet of cigarette’s might be enough to out way the payoff of getting to smoke a cigarette.

Also it’s very, very hard to quite something when you go about it in a “cool down” way so to speak, the best way is to go “cold turkey” thats why they send drug addicts to a rehab facility, because that environment pulls for their success, they don’t have available resource to their addiction.

I hope this helps you.

No offense CopticChristian, but just ‘motivation’ doesn’t work, motivation comes and goes, people cannot rely on just motivation/will power to quit an addiction, they have to make the payoff they get from an addiction no longer a payoff, the payoff of not giving into an addiction needs to outway the payoff of giving into the addiction, thats what I mean when I say to quit an addiction they need to set their environment up so that it pulls for their success and that if they want different they have to do different, you are right though that motivation is the first step to want different, but the next step is to do different, most struggle with how to do different when the motivation/will power goes as it always does.

Again I apologise for the off topic nature of this post.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[cwltexas]

josh987654321

Thank you very much, I think those are excellent suggestions to try!

 

[Publisher]

and Paul did or did not write the letter to the Romans?

and how is it you place what is described by Paul in pagan temples?

Where in the letter to the Romans does it say this or is this information from other than Scripture, perhaps another tradition?

Yes Paul wrotre to the Roman Christians. Many of whom we realize in chapter 2 obviously were taking part in temple prostitution before they became Christians…“as some of you were”. While the message of Jesus took root among the Diaspora of his day, it also was attractive to the Gentile “God fearers” of his day who were attracted to Judaism, but had no desire whatsoever to undergo a dangerous and painful circumcision…nor did they wish to follow the dietary restrictions of the Jews.

As is often stated by Catholics scripture cannot…does not interpret scripture. Historical, cultural, religious time frames are also needed to understand the meaning of some passages.

Paul was writing to first century people. They know what life was like in Rome and in the surrounding areas. They were well aware of the religious tenure of the day.

 

[Publisher]

Here you say that in Leveticus the abomination is based on pagan religious practice. So if it is not actions that are pagan then that makes it not an abomination. You also say Romans deals with temple Prostitution and Corinthians deals with pedastry.

you then say…

Help me understand. You here say that you do not believe in an infallible interpretor of Scripture. Ok.

then

You must rely on how it impacts your life and you are responsible for yourself.

so

Help me understand how it is you came about the notion that Romans deals with temple prostitution based on Scripture alone?/QUOTE]

I read different views, read scripture as a whole, looked at history, culture, context and determined what was being addressed in scripture. Since I do not believe, as do you, in “scripture alone” it seemed like the more logical thing to do to understand what writers some 2000-4000 years ago was addressing, since I am so far removed from them in time.

It’s like reading the Oddesy or the Illiad, without some notion of geography and history and the religious beliefs of the day, Homer’s work would make little sense.

Surely you’re not going to suggest that you rely solely on scripture to understand scripture?

As a Catholic I understand you believe your church interpret’s scripture infallibly…most of the world’s population …shoot, most of the US population…and I dare say a large number of Catholics don’t embrace any “infallible interpreter”. Even when your church states “infallibly” what a passage means I would think some research and thought goes into the “interpretation”…it just doesn’t materialize out of thin air.

 

[livingwordunity]

I haven’t read this whole thread but I saw this and wanted to answer. You are reaching this conclusion on a sentence by sentence interpretation of the Bible. That is a wrong interpretation of the Bible. That is how evangelicals and protestants interpret the Bible but under catholic doctrine you can’t interpret the Bible solely on one sentence or paragraph, the Bible is interpreted in its full context together with tradition. The Greek word used by Paul is arsenokoitai which literally means men coitus. If you read Paul in its entirety you are going to notice that he is using the word in the context of Porneia- which means sexual immoral acts, Paul does expand quite good throughout all his letters what entails porneia which in a nutshell is any sexual act outside a marriage between a man or a woman. If you tie that with traditional Judaism and Jesus’ words you can be pretty sure that what Paul is talking is homosexual acts. Also, what you point regarding pagan temples which was pretty much male prostitutes is address by Paul with a complete different word: malakoi, so that OS not what he is talking about he is talking about homosexual acts.

 

[steve_b]

I have no problem giving an account of myself before the Eternal One…I stand in the shadow of His grace.

Given the answers so far, I would just suggest, be mindful that, “Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.”

 

[Publisher]

Given the answers so far, I would just suggest, be mindful that, “Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.”

Now friend, friend Coptic doesn’t like my “digressions” on subjects like this.

I am mindful…very prayerful in my study. “He has not given us a spirit of fear…” The “Awe-inspiring respect of the Lord IS the beginning of wisdom.” However accepting mythic faith stories as historical fact doesn’t seem to be exercising wisdom at all…at least for me…

It is Him that I trust…His grace…His mercy…His love. I just don’t find I can believe in a god that gives us a mind to use…to seek…to search…to try to understand our world and how He operates in it…then cast us aside when we do exercise our minds to grasp such things. What I believe about scripture, history, faith are the very things that keep me believing in Him…my world makes sense and I am able to see Him move in our lives…the “other way” I seem to be counseled to believe just makes no sense to me what so ever…I just can’t get my mind around such things as talking snake and donkeys.

 

[Publisher]

Paul was the one who told everyone to remain single, yes?
And he never even met Jesus?
And he spoke quite negatively about women…and was quite self-loathing about himself?

Methinks Paul doth protest too much.

.

Some scholars, although none that would be given ANY credibility here at CAF as they don’t promote the “faith story” as fact, believe Paul may have had same sex attraction…those passages that speak of his sin…“it is not I but sin in me”…and how the “members of his body” tend to cause him some type of moral trouble.

I find some of their argument compelling…and facinating to think that in God’s wisdom he used a gay man to spread His gospel of love and reconcilliation to the Gentile world…seems like something He would do…'he uses the base things of this world to confound the mighty."

 

[josh987654321]

.
Isn’t Catalina Rivas the one who was caught plagiarizing, nearly word for word, from other books?

No, you should read them, I think you will find those rumors quite false.

**IMPRIMATUR
is Latin for “Let It Be Printed” When a Roman Catholic Bishop grants his “Imprimatur” to a printed work, he assures the reader that nothing therein is contrary to Catholic Faith or Morals. This Imprimatur is not given lightly, but only after a thorough review process. All books offered on this site have been granted the Imprimatur. **

IMPRIMATUR:
We have read Catalina’s books and we are certain that their only objective is to
lead us all on a journey of authentic spirituality that is based on the Gospel of
Christ. The books highlight as well the special place the Blessed Virgin Mary, our
Mother to whom we should offer our complete trust and love, as her children that
we are, and our role model in how to love and follow Jesus Christ.
At the same time as they renew our love and devotion to the Holy Catholic
Church, the books enlighten us on the actions that should characterize a truly
committed Christian. For these reasons, I authorize their printing and distribution, and recommend
them as texts of meditation and spiritual orientation, so as to yield much fruit
for Our Lord who is calling us to save many souls, showing them that He is a living
God, full of love and mercy.

• Mons. Rene Fernandez Apaza
  Archbishop of Cochabamba
  ** April 2, l998**

All of Katya’s books have this IMPRIMATUR

And isn’t Willesee the one who hosted A Current Affair drunk on air?
I remember that broadcast! So weird.

This was before he met Katya and filmed the documentary Signs From God.

(I haven’t read all the other posts yet, so maybe you’ve already covered this…)

I dunno how well-respected he is among his peers behind the scenes, he has a lot of controversies in his background.
I was just reading about how he collapsed in Sydney last month. He’s in the middle of a big divorce from his wife of eleven years and she’s already engaged to Aussie chef Jason Roberts, I think…that all oughtta put some strain on a guy.

Willesee was already Catholic since childhood, fyi, but definitely a lapsed one at that.

.

Please read this, it’s very short - youshallbelieve.com/A-plea-to-humanity.pdf

All of these links are in my signature, they are definatly very worth while viewing, thank you.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[steve_b]

Now friend, friend Coptic doesn’t like my “digressions” on subjects like this.

I am mindful…very prayerful in my study. “He has not given us a spirit of fear…” The “Awe-inspiring respect of the Lord IS the beginning of wisdom.” Howeveraccepting mythic faith stories as historical fact doesn’t seem to be exercising wisdom at all…at least for me…

It is Him that I trust…His grace…His mercy…His love. I just don’t find I can believe in a god that gives us a mind to use…to seek…to search…to try to understand our world and how He operates in it…then cast us aside when we do exercise our minds to grasp such things. What I believe about scripture, history, faith are the very things that keep me believing in Him…my world makes sense and I am able to see Him move in our lives…the “other way” I seem to be counseled to believe just makes no sense to me what so ever…I just can’t get my mind around such things as talking snake and donkeys.

Speaking of what one believes

Isn’t one’s belief in God, as with other beliefs, dependent on how one’s mind and conscience was formed and who formed it? Your religion ergo your belief system about God goes back to it’s founder George Fox in the 17th century and those who after him developed your religion. BTW, God doesn’t cast anyone aside without one’s will being fully engaged.

For example

The instruction from the beginning, is not only to watch out for, but to avoid any and all who cause division from the Church. They don’t serve Our Lord Jesus but their own selfish appetites Romans 16:17-20 That was given in the 1st century. It has no expiration date to that warning. The warning is further explained 2 Timothy 4:3-4 therefore, when one exercises their will against God’s will, that’s when the soul runs the risk of being cast aside. Galatians 5:19-21 & 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Don’t worry, no one is just willy nilly cast aside.