Refutation of Baptismal Regeneration

[Tbrightson]

Author is using Justin Martyr writing to deny baptismal regeneration…thoughts?

…Just reading Chapter 61 of Justin’s First Apology, it does seem to teach baptismal regeneration. If one isolates the phrases, “they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated.” and the quote of John 3:3 and “For Christ said . . . “, and the phrase,

“And this washing is called illumination, “, then it does seem to teach baptismal regeneration.

However, taken in the whole section, the emphasis is on the person’s learning, receiving instruction and teaching, repentance, the choice of “in which we dedicate ourselves to God”, “persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true”, “but may become the children of choice and knowledge”,”who chooses to be born again”, and “has repented of his sins”; And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.” – or “he who has been taught and repented, is then washed.” Kauffman is right when he points out that this does not say, “he who is washed is illuminated”. Rather it says the one who has been illuminated is then washed. The washing/baptizing comes after the repentance and learning and praying and fasting, as a symbol, sign, and seal of the illumination of the heart and mind. The illumination takes place in the learning, understanding, repentance, choosing to follow Christ, then the person who is illuminated (taught, learned, chosen, repented, fasted, prayed, etc.), then they are brought to the water and are washed or baptized. So it seems that Justin taught that the baptism is like a seal, a sign and symbol of the internal illumination of the mind and heart in repentance, faith, and learning about the doctrines of Christ.

 

[Wesrock]

Author is using Justin Martyr writing to deny baptismal regeneration…thoughts?

…Just reading Chapter 61 of Justin’s First Apology, it does seem to teach baptismal regeneration. If one isolates the phrases, “they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated.” and the quote of John 3:3 and “For Christ said . . . “, and the phrase,

“And this washing is called illumination, “, then it does seem to teach baptismal regeneration.

However, taken in the whole section, the emphasis is on the person’s learning, receiving instruction and teaching, repentance, the choice of “in which we dedicate ourselves to God”, “persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true”, “but may become the children of choice and knowledge”,”who chooses to be born again”, and “has repented of his sins”; And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.” – or “he who has been taught and repented, is then washed.” Kauffman is right when he points out that this does not say, “he who is washed is illuminated”. Rather it says the one who has been illuminated is then washed. The washing/baptizing comes after the repentance and learning and praying and fasting, as a symbol, sign, and seal of the illumination of the heart and mind. The illumination takes place in the learning, understanding, repentance, choosing to follow Christ, then the person who is illuminated (taught, learned, chosen, repented, fasted, prayed, etc.), then they are brought to the water and are washed or baptized. So it seems that Justin taught that the baptism is like a seal, a sign and symbol of the internal illumination of the mind and heart in repentance, faith, and learning about the doctrines of Christ.

He is sure inferring a lot from a few short words. Yes, it’s not impossible to be read that way, as it’s not impossible to be read our way. Reading it our way, of course, fits the historical context and Christian tradition while the other way does not.

And we Catholics today still have RCIA before allowing a person to be baptized, anyway, because the person should be illuminated on what they’re accepting first. Does our having RCIA mean we don’t believe in and teach baptismal regeneration?

 

[Annie]

Illumination seems to render to the state of mind and will; regeneration to that of the soul.

 

[Tbrightson]

I’m thinking its not one or the other, but rather both. Regeneration? Yes. Symbol of “illumination”? Yes…

 

[Annie]

A symbol is a lesser thing. Regeneration of the soul is an actual thing, not a mere symbol, entered into because of the illumination of the person himself (or guardians for minors).

 

[Mintaka]

Argh argh argh. Justin Martyr is rolling over in his sainted grave, and his whole classroom of martyrs is rolling over with him.

First off, the man is not teaching catechism class. He is telling the Emperor and Senate, pagan people, why Christians are virtuous citizens and not a danger to the state. He is not trying to emphasize wild difference, although he does not softpedal Christianity being better than paganism. It is amazing that he says as much as he does about our sacraments, and he only did it to refute claims of cannibalism, orgies, witchcraft, and the like.

 

[Mintaka]

Secondly, Justin used several of the names for Baptism in that passage, like “the laver.” He also explained explicitly , with quotes from Isaiah and elsewhere, that baptism is for the remission of sins. How much more explicit can you be?

The part about dedicating and choice (in respect to an adult convert being baptized) is to.emphasize that Christians did not kidnap people off the street and forcibly baptize them, the way eunuch priests of Cybele (allegedly sometimes) forcibly castrated cute guys into their priesthood. Among other things that occult religions of Rome sometimes did.

Everything that Justin Martyr writes about Catholic practices has this subtext – “We are not psychos. We are not totally new to the world. We are the fulfillment of Jewish tradition, which is older than most pagan religions.” Romans respected what was old and tested, but feared religions that were new and foreign. (And sometimes they were right to fear.)

 

[Todd_Easton]

I think St Justin Martyr refers to the sacrament of Regeneration as “Illumination,” not because regeneration occurs the moment a person understands the Christian faith and resolves to live by its tenets, but because such illumination, i.e., such understanding and resolve, is a necessary first step on the way to regeneration for an adult which actually happens later when he is baptized by water for the forgiveness of their sins and receives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is like when we refer to the sacrament of Reconciliation as “Confession.” We don’t call it “Confession” because reconciliation occurs the moment a person confesses their sins but because such a confession of sins is the necessary first step on the way to reconciliation which actually happens later when he expresses contrition for his confessed sins and receives absolution from the priest. It is also like when we refer to the sacrament of Holy Communion (or the Lord’s Supper or the Holy Sacrifice or the Mass) as “the Eucharist” (or Thanksgiving). We don’t call it “the Eucharist” because Holy Communion occurs the moment thanks are given but because such a giving of thanks is a necessary first step on the way to Holy Communion which actually happens later when the gifts for which thanks have been given are transubstantiated into the Body and Blood of the Lord, offered in sacrifice, and then consumed by those desiring Holy Communion.

 

[Mintaka]

Instruction in the early Church was only partial before Baptism, Confirmation, and Communion. Afterward you went through “mystagogia,” and you learned about the Mysteries (the Sacraments you had just received, the Mass you were finally allowed to attend in full, and other sacred topics).

So Baptism was literally the moment when you became illuminated with knowledge of what people had been hinting about, and it was when they brought you into Easter Vigil to see the whole church carrying candles or oil lamps, lit up by the Easter fire of Christ, the Light of the World.

But it was (and is!) also very common for people to receive a host of graces on that day of Baptism, and to receive miraculous understanding. St. Cyprian talks about a pagan buddy who converted in a very dry way, but who then became like a different saintly, intense person after Baptism. This was understood as a visible sign of the stuff that other people received less obviously.

 

[fhansen]

deleted post

 

[fhansen]

Knowledge is the basis of faith, and Baptism is known as the sacrament of faith. It is the first formal public profession of our faith. In Gods provision what we do with or how we respond to the knowledge and subsequent faith given plays its role in our justification, regeneration, and salvation. And He tells us to be Baptized. We can’t and don’t really need to know much more than that. Anyway it’s not either/or, knowledge or Baptism; it’s both/and.

 

[po18guy]

Nonsense! Out of context. Agenda driven. Ignores scripture and the entirety of Saint Justin Martyr and the other father’s comments. This poor person is trying to reverse engineer the faith by cherry picking quotes and horribly distorting them.

This is reformation poison that has trickled down to the present day. First it was the dissolving of Christ in the Eucharist. Then it was Holy orders, Reconciliation, baptismal regeneration, etc. etc. etc.

This was cultural/political/theological European rot. Look at the East! The various Coptic, Orthodox and other Churches have never wavered on any of this. Neither have they had, or needed any such radical, alteration of the faith. After all, the faith was “once for all delivered to the Saints.” This included Europe, but ego-driven, psychologically disturbed, charismatic personalities there did not believe it.

The reformers had no idea who they were actually working for, who had incited them, or the fruits of their labors: the eventual degradation of the faith by their opening of the door.

Yes, I have opinions on this matter.