Refutation of gay marriage

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I know that homosexual sex and gay marriage goes against the ‘natural law of God’ written in our hearts.

Can anyone give me a concise answer why redefining marriage is wrong and why same sex marriage is wrong from a secular stand point?

Can anyone give an answer without giving any reference to religion or God?

How does it hurt society? What studies are done to support refutation of gay marriage?
 
I know that homosexual sex and gay marriage goes against the ‘natural law of God’ written in our hearts.

Can anyone give me a concise answer why redefining marriage is wrong and why same sex marriage is wrong from a secular stand point?

Can anyone give an answer without giving any reference to religion or God?

How does it hurt society? What studies are done to support refutation of gay marriage?
Umm…because then people will marry animals…lol…there isn’t one I can think of

I’m sure they can…in their opinion

It dosen’t, None that I know of, atleast that aren’t biased.

🙂
 
You might want to read this article.
That article is biased…It would be nice if someone could find a good unbiased article, sadly, there probably isn’t any on the internet
😛

To to the OP, I wouldn’t listen to either myself and any pro-gay marriage people that side with me or anyone who disagrees, as we’re all biased.
 
Thank you very much JimG. It is a very good intellectual refutation, and is along the lines of what I was looking for. Thank you & God bless.

AMDG
 
Thank you very much JimG. It is a very good intellectual refutation, and is along the lines of what I was looking for. Thank you & God bless.

AMDG
Well…I was wrong, lol.

If that’s what you were looking for, there you go.
😛

But I wouldn’t suggest using the stuff they said in that article in any debates.
 
Yes Teen4Christ I intend to use the info to debate & to defend the truth. Sorry to disappoint you.

“Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect” - Rom 12:2
 
Yes Teen4Christ I intend to use the info to debate & to defend the truth. Sorry to disappoint you.

“Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect” - Rom 12:2
That’s fine:)

I’m just saying if you debate anyone who is even remotely well educated about SSM and gay rights, it likely won’t be pretty if that article is your main source for non-religious reasons of why homosexuals should not be able to marry.
 
There are of course other articles from other magazines, but I didnt have time to research them. I was already familiar with the Orson Scott Card article.

One thing to keep in mind is that heterosexual marriage, and, in the Christian era, monogamous marriage, has been the way in which families and civilizations have been maintained for nearly all of recorded history.

While many societies have tolerated homosexual behavior, such as ancient Rome, and even some of the societies mentioned in the Bible, none have normalized it by making it the equivalent of marriage. For society to survive, marriage–real marriage–was a necessity. It’s only in the past 40 years or so that any society has thought of making gay marriage the equivalent of actual marriage.

When that happens, real marriage gets devalued, and people simply no longer marry. The live together, they have a variety of sexual liaisons, but they don’t marry, and societal stability suffers.

I might also add that the arguments made for gay marriage could also apply to pedophile marriage. I don’t equate the two. But I can see where an organization like NAMBLA might like ‘equal rights’ just as much as gay couples.

They would argue that their own sexual orientation is just as inborn as homosexuality, and that they ought to have the right to express it and to marry their lovers.

It will be argued that it is illegal and the ‘lovers’ are underage children. But they would argue, and probably have, that children who are older than the age of reason should not be denied the right to choose to marry an older adult, and that the state should not have the right to interfere. They have already argued that the age of consent ought to be lowered to around 12. (After all, in some states, minor chldren have the right to obtain an abortion without parental consent. The reasoning would be similar.) It may sound outrageous, but I can see NAMBLA making exactly this argument.
 
i think those two articles will be useful for the debate, actually. good luck 🙂
 
Here area few more articles, from First Things magazine, which are not always as straightforward, since they are discussing various aspects of the issue:

firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=943

firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=373

Another one here:
firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=494

“If the government deems it necessary to recognize other adult relationships besides marriage, then it cannot discriminate against competing relationships on the basis of sexual activity. For in venturing beyond marriage—with its contours based precisely on complementary sexual union—the state has no available reasons for citing sexual activity as the defining attribute of other adult relationships. In other words, civil domestic partnerships must be open to all adult domestic partners whether or not they are (or are willing to say they are) sexual partners.”

The above quote concerned two British siblings–sisters who lived together, not, of course married. Their contention was that they were being treated unfairly by inheritance tax laws, since if they had been ‘married lesbians’ they would have been subject to a much less in the way of inheritance tax.
 
I’ll give my two cents:

Something to know is that ancient Greeks, for example, Alexander the Great, are known for having homosexual relationships. However, while many men had male lovers, it was considered ‘unmanly’ to actually have intercourse, like, the real deal.

My theory is that this could have snowballed into an abomination which at the time didn’t mean sin, but an unclean (dirty) thing to do. (see fogarty.org/tim/gay_issues/word_abomination.html)

-x-

Gay couples aren’t asking for anything special. They’re aren’t asking for grants, taxcuts, a higher status, or anything. Letting them marry but taking away marital rights would also mean taking away the benefit of becoming related in a hospital.
Would you not pity a lesbian woman whose lover of 40 years was dying the hospital, in an intensive care unit, and was denied rights to see her in her last minutes of life because they were not related? (Emotional appeals aren’t fun, but it is what it is).

-x-
Homosexuality can be seen in nature. Here’s an article on it:
sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/07/MNG3N4RAV41.DTL
-x-

It’s up to you to decide what you want to support. I really don’t care who people marry, because in the long run, it doesn’t really do anything to me. The state should keep out of people’s pants.
 
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  Would you not pity a lesbian woman whose lover of 40 years was dying the hospital, in an intensive care unit, and was denied rights to see her in her last minutes of life because they were not related? (Emotional appeals aren't fun, but it is what it is).
This is not true. I am a nurse in the intensive care unit, and we allow friends and family to visit loved ones regardless of sexual orientation during their moments or stages of dying.
Homosexuality can be seen in nature. Here’s an article on it:
sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/07/MNG3N4RAV41.DTL
Animals are driven by instinct. They do not have reason or free-will. A monkey cannot write a book like “Refutation of Moral Relativism by Peter Kreeft”. A tiger cannot say “I love you and am willing to lay my life for you.”

Humans have a free-will to choose a greater good and/or objective truth in the face of challenges, adversities, and popular culture. We are not slaves to our passions like animals.

Just because something cannot be seen doesnt take away the objective fact that a particular matter is harmful to society.

Secular humanism is just a means to justify moral relativism.
 
Homosexuality can be seen in nature. Here’s an article on it:
sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/07/MNG3N4RAV41.DTL
From the linked article:
Gay groups argue that if homosexual behavior occurs in animals, it is natural, and therefore the rights of homosexuals should be protected.
Many species of animals also eat their offspring. I can’t wait for cannibalism-rights groups to argue that if filial cannibalism occurs in animals, it is natural, and therefore the rights of cannibals should be protected.
 
I know that homosexual sex and gay marriage goes against the ‘natural law of God’ written in our hearts.

Can anyone give me a concise answer why redefining marriage is wrong and why same sex marriage is wrong from a secular stand point?

Can anyone give an answer without giving any reference to religion or God?

How does it hurt society? What studies are done to support refutation of gay marriage?
I question the need to leave God out of everything. That’s probably what got us this deep in the you-know-what.
 
It is because most opponents do not believe in Divine Revelation and many use secular reasoning to justify their arguments.

Pope John Paul II the Great taught that Faith and Reason are compatible because both come from God.

God gave us an intellect to seek the truth and not to justify our selfish desires. We can use reason to help those who have little or no faith to understand the things of God.

It is similar to how Jesus used parables to talk to farmers and fishermen 2000 years ago.

Similarly, Jesus used reason toward the “wise” to explain that we render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and render unto God what belongs to God.

In our modern times, we have to fight intellectually with reason but with the spirit of faith. They both originate from God and the end is just the same, which is to testify to the Truth.

*“For this I was born and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.” * - John 18:37
 
Yes, I’ve heard that line of reasoning. But look what it’s gotten us.

The opposition thinks nothing of shoving paganism and atheism down our throats. I liken this to Catholic politicians who prominently state, “My faith has nothing to do with the way I vote.”

Well, it better! Where do you think our laws come from anyway?
 
The bottom line is you have to use reason when dealing with these people in the beginning.

Your tone appears that you do not make the connection of faith and reason.

You should read Pope John Paul II’s encyclical Fides et Ratio

The Truth is Jesus Christ. You and I know that. However, we have to deliver Jesus Christ through the truth in ways people can understand.

When Saint Paul spoke to the Greek philosophers (Acts 17: 22-33) He recognized Truth outside of scripture. When the Greek philosophers sought the truth, they were in essence preparing themselves for the Gospel.

If we as Catholics cannot have a rational faith, then we fall into ‘Fideism’ which is characteristic of protestant fundamentalism. This approach will not help non-believers to understand the truth of their errors.
 
There is no logical rational for denying gay people the ability to marry from a secular standpoint. Plain and simple.

I have had debate after debate with people on this topic, and they parrot off all sorts of supposedly secular arguments and points they heard from their pastor or some pundit on TV. But once you poke a little bit, you discover it really does just come down to their religion.

Not even that actually, more often than you might think, their faith really has nothing to do with it. Although they’ll rarely admit it, in my discussions with many people, it is apparent that for more people than you might think, it’s just “icky,” it’s “weird.” There really is no other way to put it.
 
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