Refutation of Relativism

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The teachings of the Catholic church, in particular, clearly-defined dogma, are without error and therefore true. Dogma is not true because of human beings; it is true because of Jesus Christ and his promise that the Church would not fail. Most devotions etc in the Church are not dogma, but the core center of our faith which has been defined as infallibly true is true for everyone, for all time, and for all circumstances.

For example:
  1. Mary is co-redemptrix.
    This is a widely-held belief in the Catholic Church, but it has not been defined as dogma; thus, Catholics are not required to believe it. Believing it is relative to the individual.
  2. Jesus is fully God and fully Man.
    This has been defined as dogma and is therefore infallibly true without regard to person, place, or time. It is an absolute truth–not because the Church says so but because it has defined this truth through the deposit of faith, Scripture, and Tradition.
 
Numinous said:
The teachings of the Catholic church, in particular, clearly-defined dogma, are without error and therefore true. Dogma is not true because of human beings; it is true because of Jesus Christ and his promise that the Church would not fail. Most devotions etc in the Church are not dogma, but the core center of our faith which has been defined as infallibly true is true for everyone, for all time, and for all circumstances.

For example:
  1. Mary is co-redemptrix.
    This is a widely-held belief in the Catholic Church, but it has not been defined as dogma; thus, Catholics are not required to believe it. Believing it is relative to the individual.
  2. Jesus is fully God and fully Man.
    This has been defined as dogma and is therefore infallibly true without regard to person, place, or time. It is an absolute truth–not because the Church says so but because it has defined this truth through the deposit of faith, Scripture, and Tradition.
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Yes but it’s all ‘Harry Potter’ to those of us who don’t ‘believe’ in it. They’re merely ‘absolute’ within a particular structure and meaningless outside it.
 
Then I’m not talking to you.
EDIT: meaning, I’m not addressing you.

We disagree on our premises, and that’s the end of our discussion. If you want to argue premises, that’s fine, but we cannot argue other things unless we agree on premises.
 
Numinous said:
Then I’m not talking to you.
EDIT: meaning, I’m not addressing you.

We disagree on our premises, and that’s the end of our discussion. If you want to argue premises, that’s fine, but we cannot argue other things unless we agree on premises.
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Which merely reinforces the inherent contradiction - you want people to accept your ‘absolutes’ but have no means whatsoever of establishing those ‘absolutes’.
 
Kaninchen said:
Which merely reinforces the inherent contradiction - you want people to accept your ‘absolutes’ but have no means whatsoever of establishing those ‘absolutes’.
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Hahahaha What a laugh!
I want you to accept my absolutes? Not at all. Do whatever you want! I’m simply pointing out what it true. Take it or leave it. If you take it, great!! If you leave it, fine.

I give defenses for my faith; I don’t argue like a retard (not saying you are a retard, mind).
 
Leela said:
What is conspicuously absent, ironically, from your critiques of relativism in favor of absolute truth is any claim that absolute truth is true. Instead you argue that relativism is dangerous which is entirely irrelevent to whether or not it is true.

Best,
Leela
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Where is Thomas Aquinas when you need him? Truth being absolute - absolutely trustworthy, immutable, and reliable, seems so obvious to me. It is the point at which I begin to think about an idea…can it (the idea) fit within the framework of what I believe to be true. And I AM a believer, so I am hampered by a singularly simple construct. God is, therefore what He communicates is true. Whether it is a natural law, or a spiritual one, it is reliable and true. Sad, I know, from an argument point of view, but as I indicated, I am often made uneasy by clever word play and argument couched in semantics or some sort of plausibility framework.
So why do I engage? To represent the faithful and true servant, who trusts in her master’s unfailing judgement with all her heart, even when she is flagrantly flouting it…
 
Numinous said:
Hahahaha What a laugh!
I want you to accept my absolutes? Not at all. Do whatever you want! I’m simply pointing out what it true. Take it or leave it. If you take it, great!! If you leave it, fine.
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You are saying, that…what you declare is truth. And you will then say, your church tells you it’s true and they claim it as spiritual truth.

So what?

Shall we laugh at you to? hahahahah…what a laugh? I dont’ CARE what you claim as truth. This is hilarious. Wow…you think I’m talking about belief? this is so funny…I’m talking about truth.

The truth is…there is no God.

You are soooo funny 🙂

See I can do that too 🙂 How do you feel about it?
I give defenses for my faith; I don’t argue like a retard (not saying you are a retard, mind).
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You haven’t given any defense. You’ve simply made a statment about what you think is true, and then claimed it as fact.

This isn’t a defense for anything at all.
 
But Christ is not just a human, and Truth comes from him. Well, actually he is Truth.

Not me. I’m not truth, and truth certainly does not come from me.
 
Dameedna said:
The truth is…there is no God.

You are soooo funny 🙂

See I can do that too 🙂 How do you feel about it?
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Awesome.
That’s your opinion, and it is, ironically, your God-given faculty to reject him. Good on ya, mate. Flex those existential muscles! Ooooh, so fine in profile!! Grrrr…
 
Susan1006 said:
Where is Thomas Aquinas when you need him? Truth being absolute - absolutely trustworthy, immutable, and reliable, seems so obvious to me. It is the point at which I begin to think about an idea…can it (the idea) fit within the framework of what I believe to be true.
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Unfortunately, as soon as you get into the world of “Truth is what I believe to be true” you hit a dead end.

Truth exists.

It has nothing to do with your framework, because your framework relates to YOU and you are not truth.

It has nothing to do with a logical argument given to you by a church, because this relates to your understanding of the argument.

As soon as you mention the word YOU…you negate truth. You say truth…is relative to you, making it less than what it is.

I suspect you realize truth exists. You just seem to think you can hold onto it. That greatest sin of your church, was to remove from it’s ancient walls…the concept of doubt.
 
Numinous said:
But Christ is not just a human, and Truth comes from him. Well, actually he is Truth.

Not me. I’m not truth, and truth certainly does not come from me.
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You are definately not truth and truth does not come from you. If that’s the case…then why would I believe you when you say truth is christ?

oops. 😃
 
Numinous said:
Awesome.
That’s your opinion, and it is, ironically, your God-given faculty to reject him. Good on ya, mate. Flex those existential muscles! Ooooh, so fine in profile!! Grrrr…
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I don’t reject God.

I reject your belief. 🙂
 
Dameedna said:
You are definately not truth and truth does not come from you. If that’s the case…then why would I believe you when you say truth is christ?

oops. 😃
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Because the truth comes from Christ. Forget me and my stupid, rambling, retarded posts. Look to Christ. Don’t believe me. I don’t care if you do or not. Believe Christ.
 
Numinous said:
Because the truth comes from Christ. Forget me and my stupid, rambling, retarded posts. Look to Christ. Don’t believe me. I don’t care if you do or not. Believe Christ.
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Why would I “believe” christ when the only ones telling me about the christ, are humans?

I guess I should “believe” Mohammed, cause some-one told me to?

Or perhaps the buddah?

If I believed everything I was told…
 
The only way you’ve ever encountered Christ is through people?

You’ve never experienced Christ in any way other than people just telling you about him?
 
Dameedna said:
At least I know how much you value another human.

Don’t let religion take away your humanity. It’s not worth it.
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Oh, I’d be quite different in person. It’s just that arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
 
Numinous said:
Hahahaha What a laugh!
I want you to accept my absolutes? Not at all. Do whatever you want! I’m simply pointing out what it true. Take it or leave it. If you take it, great!! If you leave it, fine.

I give defenses for my faith; I don’t argue like a retard (not saying you are a retard, mind).
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Are you sure ‘philosophy’ is really for you?
 
No, not really. I am a poor philosopher, actually.

I’m just simply not young enough anymore to know everything.
 
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