Hi! Please help me. I am Catholic. I told a Baptist relative that the Church came before the Bible, because the Bible was put together by the Church. Then he cleverly responded that the Bible is God’s Word, and thus existed before the Church, because the book of John indicates: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Therefore, he says, the Bible came before the Church.
I already pointed him to the pillar of truth bible verse, but how do I refute this argument? (Besids pointing again to 1 Tim 3:15).
Thanks and God Bless you eternally.
Hiedi
Bible passages are taken from King James Bible…
My sister said the same thing; the Bible is all we need, not the Pope, not the Church! Unfortunately, the Bible alone theory is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches us and shows us that the Church came before the Bible. After all, what books did Jesus write? None! Jesus deliberately chose NOT to write. Instead He chose to establish a Church to teach in His name!
The Catholic Church believes that both the Bible and Church are both necessary and one cannot exist without the other. Here are some questions non-Catholics, like your Baptist relative must consider…
(1) The Bible was not put under one cover until 397 AD at the Council of Carthage. It took a monk 10 months to hand copy the Bible. Prior to the Bible being put under one cover, who was the authority figure for the early church? Remember, the Bible did not exist as we know it today. There is NO denying the fact that authority was the church–not the Bible.
(2) How did the early Christians each own a Bible if the printing press wasn’t developed until the 1500’s? Even after the printing press was developed how many Christian could afford to own a Bible?
(3) Why does JESUS state the final authority is the church in Matthew 18:15-17?
(4) Where in the Bible does it state that the “Bible” is the only authority for Christians?
(5) How did the majority of the people who were uneducated read the Bible prior to 1500 and even to this day?
(6) What is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)?
(7) What books of the Bible did Jesus write?
(8) Where in the Bible does Jesus command the Apostles to write?
(9) How do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is correct?
(10) How did the Bible know what books to include under its cover?
The only logical conclusion is that the Bible as our only guide is unbiblical!! The Church came first!!
When did Jesus establish His Church? Jesus establishes His church when He states the following in Mt. 16:18: And I say also unto thee, That thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Let us look at several verses that state that Jesus established a teaching Church not a Bible reading Church.
Code:
(Mt. 28-19) Jesus states - Go ye therefore, and TEACH all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
(Mk. 16-15) Jesus states - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and PREACH the gospel to every creature.
(Mk 16-20) - And they went forth, and PREACHED everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
The apostles did not read from the New Testament, which was yet to be written, instead they taught by “word of mouth” and by tradition, as shown in the following verses:
Code:
(2 Thes. 2-15) - Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
(2 Tim. 2-2) - And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
Where did the Bible come from? The Bible came from the Catholic Church. The New Testament was put under one cover in 397 A.D. this was decided at the Council of Carthage. Prior to this date the different books of the Bible were not under one cover, but they were scattered in different places. So this means, that for over three hundred years the members of the early church were taught be means of tradition because the Bible as we know it did not exist.
Who decided what books belong in the Bible? The Catholic Church thoroughly examined all the books that were in question to be used in the New Testament and it was the Catholic Church that decided what books were inspired and which were not. Catholic monks spent their lives copying scripture over and over again until printing was developed in 1440 AD. So this means that for over 1,400 years the Church taught the members by tradition. Even after the invention of printing, it was far too expensive for every member of a household to own a Bible. John Gutenberg printed the first edition of the Catholic Bible. It wasn’t until 1534, that Luther’s translation of the Bible appeared.
Where does it say in the Bible that the Bible is the only authority? It doesn’t! Nowhere in the Bible does the Bible say that it is the only source of information available to a Christian. A matter of fact, the Bible states that we must look to the Church for the proper interpretation. After all, the Bible cannot interpret itself, can it? Let look at some verses that show us that private interpretation is frowned upon.
Code:
(2 Peter 1-20) - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
(2 Peter 3-16) - As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
(Acts 8-30) - And Philip ran thither to him, and read him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some men should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Then who is the teacher of the Scriptures? The Holy Spirit, acting through the Catholic Church. The reason why there are so many non-Catholic churches is because there are so many different interpretations of the Bible. The Holy Spirit cannot be responsible for such mass confusion. There is not a “universal” Protestant Church. Some Protestants believe in infant baptism while others do not. The Catholic Church, however is universal, we have one belief system, and one leader to guide us.
Code:
(Jn 14:26) - Jesus states: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(John 16:13) - How be it when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.
(Acts 1-8) - But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost parts of the earth. When decisions had to be made in the early Church, a council, along with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, was gathered to decide crucial questions that needed to be answered.
(Acts 15:1-2) - When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain other of them should go to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this questions (this verse shows that Council did not use scripture to settle this difference)
(Acts 16:4) - As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem so the churches were strengthened in the faith and they increased in numbers daily.
I am often told that Catholics act as if the Bible means nothing! Not so! The Bible is very important to the Catholic faith. The Catholic Mass is saturated with scripture. Catholics believe that the Bible is very necessary along with the teachings of the church-one cannot exist without the other.
I can’t add any more information or scripture to support/prove the CC’s beliefs than the ones who have already posted, but I feel that with the knowledge that I do have, maybe I can state it a little more simply as to help others see a bigger picture. You just trumped me on that 10-fold!!! I love it!!! Thank you for your wonderful post!