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Protestant101
Guest
“Thy word is a lamp unto my feet…” (Ps.119:105). That sounds like authority to me.
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garysibio
Guest
You still haven’t responded. No amount of blustering is going to get you out of it. I answered your challenge. Please have the integrity to show how sola scriptura can determine the biblical canon – which has 73 books, by the way.
Gary
po18guy
Well-known member
Truthfully, a Catholic sees what is necessary for salvation in your bible, but you neither recognize nor practice it. The Eucharist, Jesus Christ with us, is the only reason our church exists. The Eucharist is in your bible, but you refuse to see it. Not only do we believe your bible to be an incomplete canon, we view your church’s private interpretation of the scripture as erroneous. For me to tell you less would be sinful on my part. Do with this information what you will. The solution our dispute lies in your heart.
Christ’s peace.
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
The issue is not with the sufficiency of Scripture, but the interpretation thereof. Different non-Catholic groups have different beliefs (all based on their interpretation of Scripture) about what is or is not necessary for salvation. There’s the rub. Some say baptism (by immersion only) is necessary, some say it is not because it’s a “work”. Some believe that simply “asking Jesus into your heart” is enough to save you and keep you saved until you die. Some believe you must speak in tongues to prove that you’re saved. Who’s right? How do we know?
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Protestant101
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But your church says the issue is with “sufficiency” and that is why other sources are needed to “interpret” correctly the Protestant Bible.
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steppenwolf1218
Guest
No, the Catholic Church states that Scripture, Apostolic Tradition the Magesterium (teaching authority of the Church) are the pillars for proper interpretation. You are the only one adding the word Protestant to that mix.
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Protestant101
Guest
Not true for this thread for it is the Protestant Scriptures of 66 books to the Canon which is being questioned here by Catholics, and which Catholics say is "insufficient; and this is what I am asking Catholics to prove “insufficiency” with, since they are the ones who brought up the charge.
Can you tell us one salvation doctrine in the Protestant Canon which is “insufficient?”
po18guy
Well-known member
Already answered. It’s not the thickness of your bible, it’s the error in your theology. You settle for less of God’s word and misinterpret that which you have. You would be better off with 66 books and a proper interpretation.
Christ’s peace and an open heart!
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
Not just the 66 books of the “Protestant” Bible, but the whole of Sacred Scriptures. The Bible alone, without an authoritative interpreter, can be made to say whatever the reader wishes it to say. Which is why we now have so many denominations, all with conflicting and contradictory doctrine, yet they’re all reading the same Book.
2 Peter 3:16 also in all his [Paul’s] letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Peter is telling people, who are strong in the faith, that there are things in Paul’s letters that are difficult to understand. How can he say that if we are perfectly guided by the Holy Spirit? They were Not evil, ungodly people, but untaught and unstable because they disregarded the apostles’ doctrine and come to their own conclusions. These people didn’t KNOW they were unlearned or ignorant of the Scriptures, they read them and used “their personal interpretation” to their own destruction, while thinking they knew the truth. They thought they didn’t need to listed to Peter or Paul, they were fine reading Scripture on their own. Everyone reading Scripture for themselves to decide what they believe is NOT Scriptural!
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steppenwolf1218
Guest
I did already. It was Romans 10:9. This is most likely the most misquoted and misunderstood verse in the NT. It is not enough to say those words. It is a lifestyle to be lived. It is one in which your life must be handed over for. It is the way of becoming for our Lord. Yet it is the battle cry of many Penecostals and Evangelicals as they promise salvation by the utterance of these words alone as they trick many unsuspecting and guillible people into switching their faiths for them. To me this particular misuse of scripture is the greatest heresy in the Christian faith today. This btw is not an error of the Bible. It is a misinterpretation of it.
As far as the subject of the thread goes, read the initial post. Heidi asked for help with a Baptisit relative over which came first, the Bible or the Church. No mention of which bible was made. The “Protestant” bible is contigent on the Catholic bible. The canon of the scriptures was determined by the early Church. It was Martin Luther who first thought it was prudent to pick and choose which books he would believe in. Nonetheless, all the ones he chose were originally approved by the Church centuries before his appearance. So we are not saying the 66 books of the “Protestant” bible is in error. To say so we would be saying that those same 66 books are in error within the Catholic bible. What is being discussed is the misinterpretation of those books by sola scripturalists and the validity of sola scripture itself.
Now that I have given the one example of a Protestant doctrine/misinterpretation, how about if you answer the question that Gary asked that you have avoided thus far?
Where in the bible does it contain its own canon? You can’t or won’t answer this because you know where it will lead.
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Protestant101
Guest
No; I asked for a salvation doctrine from the Protestant Canon, not some text which YOU say was “wrongly” interpreted by us; but, a text which is “insufficient” as written in the Protestant Canon, and needs further explaining from another source.
If you say then that Rom.10:9 is a ‘salvational doctrine’ fine. Lets look at it.
This text looks pretty good to me the way it is. Can you tell us how it is “insufficient” and what other sources are needed to “correct” it?
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Protestant101
Guest
Also, can anyone tell me where in the catechism that it says the Bible was written by the Catholic Church? I would like to read that section. 
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
Try paragraphs #74-133.Also, can anyone tell me where in the catechism that it says the Bible was written by the Catholic Church? I would like to read that section.
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steppenwolf1218
Guest
You asked for Protestant doctrine and I gave it to you. The passage in itself is not insufficient, its the application of it by some denominations that is. There are those who say that these words along will save you. Nothing else is needed. All you need do is to say those words and all will be fine. They twist the truth because they do not understand what the truth is.
While salvation is guaranteed through the sacrifice on the Cross of Jesus, it is an offering of salvation to those who will accept it. The problem is though is that many don’t fully understand what exactly it means to accept the salvation Jesus offers to us. It is not enough to say the words then go on about your life as usual and figure your place in Heaven is guaranteed. If someone commits adultery then continues to proclaim that Jesus is his/her salvation, are they really saved? I would hope you would say no especially if that person were to continue to sin against the Commandments yet still proclaim Jesus as Savior. Yet there are those denominations where this very belief is doctrine. Not all but some. That of course lends an argument against sola scripture due to the fact that there are many differences between the Protestant denominations as to what doctrine is.
Now to answer what else besides Paul’s words in that verse in Romans is needed. Paul also spoke about it. Jesus spoke first though. The addition needed to that verse can be summed up in one word. Commitment. Jesus offered His very life to the Father in payment for our sins. The Father offered the life of His only Son for them. The Spirit offers His life in service to us so that we may come to understand our salvation in Jesus. There is only one thing that is required of us in return to gain the eternal benefits that have been offered us. We must in turn sacrifice our lives back to Jesus. We must freely and willingly stop living for ourselves and start living for God. That is what it means to accept Jesus as Savior. It’s not about you or me. It’s not about anyone but God. You can not read scripture for its services and guarantees for yourself. For if you do it for yourself then you have done it for nothing. Until you can realize that you must do for God you will never be ready for the ultimate gift Jesus gave us on Calvary. You can say those words in Romans until you’re blue in the face and hoarse and it won’t happen until you say, “God, I am yours to love you, to praise you, to serve you as You need of me.” Sadly though, many will not do that. It’s too hard for them. Others are like Ananais and Sapphira. They claim to give all yet they hold back a good portion for themselves. There are parts of them that they will not give to God. What parts of yourself do you try to keep hidden from God? What pride and vanities are there that keep you from commitment? It is not nec. to answer these to me. Answer them to yourself. That is the important concern. Then offer them to God.
If you need Bible quotes to back this up then you don’t know the Bible as well as you say you do. It’s not that the answers aren’t in the Bible, it’s the fact that many don’t know where to look for them or even recognize them when reading them. They often look for the quick easy solution that tells them what they want to hear. They don’t step back and look at the whole picture. They look upon the Pharisees and the adulteress and claim to be neither yet all the while condemning one and looking with disgust at the other. They do not realize they are as the Pharisees that Jesus reprimanded. They are judgemental and self righteous. I prefer to be the adulteress. I know I am forgiven and I know my life is for Jesus because I am forgiven. I am a sinner who walks in the light of our Lord because I have grown to know that only He can set my wretched life straight because I have welcomed Him into it. And I know it is only through prayer and action for God that I will continue to walk the path that will lead to salvation.
Now, all of your questions have been answered in this forum by various members even though you refuse to accept them. Even the one you asked about claim of the Church to have written the canon of the Bible has been answered by PixieDust. It’s your turn once again to answer the question you have dodged so far.
Where in the Bible is its own canon? You can’t answer that to your satisfaction and you know it. Your bible is contigent on the Catholic Church. Always has been and always will be. I will not respond to you anymore until you can satisfactorily answer that question.
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Protestant101
Guest
Allright - thankyou; I will look at that.
po18guy
Well-known member
But, you reject chunks of “the word” which have been used as light since before Christ received His flesh, and ever since! By what authority do you reject that sacred scripture? Your own? Luther’s? Ellen’s?“Thy word is a lamp unto my feet…” (Ps.119:105). That sounds like authority to me.
Christ’s peace.
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Protestant101
Guest
What is it that I am “rejecting?” Is there something “insufficient” about Ps.119:105?
You follow a human; his name is Pope Benedict XVI, so why would you accuse someone of doing what you yourself do?
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Protestant101
Guest
It appears that you are not familiar with some sections of your own Catechism.
Par. #95 tells us
This means that Catholics do teach how that the scriptures are “insufficient;” and you say here re Romans 10:9 that it is “insufficient” by saying what you do about scripture needing Catholic interpretation.
The text is just fine by itself; without all your personal interpretation commentary. Romans 10:9 is quite “sufficient” all by itself, without any Pope, Bishop, catechism, apocrypha, tradition, etc.
Look at it again:
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It covers the “confess with your mouth;” and also the “believe in thine heart” part.
What is “insufficient” about this text!!??**
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steppenwolf1218
Guest
Where in the Bible is its own canon?? Still dodging??
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Protestant101
Guest
The Bible speaks for itself. Prove one salvation doctrine from the Protestant Canon as “insufficient;” and you will have my attention. Trying to “prove” what YOU say the Protestant interpretation is as wrong; doesn’t even come half-way to proving Romans 10:9, as stated in the Protestant Canon as “insufficient.” You can’t do it with that text or any other text; and that’s why you see me as “dodging.”
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